The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread

[englishmick]

Regarding more complex mixes, this is where the fun really begins. I started by working with common flavorings....common to many juices, that is. I'm referring primarily with creams, vanillas and sweeteners (CVS). Try this example, as an experiment: compare perhaps sweet cream and sweetener to Bavarian cream and cotton candy. They are similar and very different, at the same time! Their differences, though, will be helpful in more complex mixes later on. I suggest, for the new mixer, to use, perhaps, 4% of each flavor and compare the two samples. After experiments with, perhaps, three different creams and sweeteners, add a vanilla (CVS) to the mix. Knowing the right creams, sweeteners (if any) and vanillas (CVS) for a particular flavor target will enable one to mix dozens, perhaps hundreds of different mixes together, all with different flavor results.

Some good suggestions here. And in the rest of the post.

I've been mixing for a year now and it's still mostly hit and miss for me. I started adding creams and vanillas, I think that was something I picked up from one of your posts. I knew the juice tasted better with that stuff in, but that was the closest I could get to understanding what was going on. Maybe it was the 50 years of smoking, or maybe I just don't have very discriminating taste buds.

I'm getting a little better now. I can observe the effect of sweet cream quite well. And I'm starting to be able to detect the difference between some of the different cream and vanilla flavours. Plus the Graham Cracker which I got recently and love. I liked Honey and didn't like Brown Sugar. I think it was the brown sugar taste that put me off but not sure.

I'm going to try making single flavor juice with each of the creams and vanillas etc, which I think is what you are suggesting. That might help. I guess it's a bit like wine tasting. It takes practice and technique. And how easy it is will depend on the individual.

I hear people talking here about their mixing activities. Like upping the percentage of cream or something from 3% to 4% to improve the juice. I'm kind of jealous because that level of skill seems so far beyond me right now. Maybe in another 5 years I'll get it. Having made a little progress, now I can somewhat appreciate what it takes to be professional juice maker and design something that really hits the spot.

 

[IDJoel]

I would say that starting percentages of TFA flavorings is definitely "On Topic."

In testing for starting flavor strength, I use PG and flavoring only. My goal is to get within 2% or so of the right strength, which I will adjust to a final strength when I do 100DT's.

Could you use a solution of PG/VG in lieu of just PG? Great question. I would think YES!

I use three drops of the mixture and vape. Seems like I get about three vapes. I then make notes on my sheet. I continue to do this until I find the flavoring I'm looking for, which I instinctively recognize, though cannot describe very well.

Does this model translate well using only PG? It does for me, and as the flavoring is PG, it seems like the right way to go for me.

I used to do this using a kind of 100dt method, but it took forever, and required too much work for me. I wanted a way to find the starting flavor quickly and fairly accurately, though, perhaps, sacrificing "exact", for "close." Turns out close is all I need to mix juice as a starting point.

I have more than 200 flavorings that I use in mixes, and I was never going to take like an hour on each one to find the starting point. I kind of want to know in the next five minutes, or I might just never know, is my rationale. Additionally, the flavor charts that are published on this thread were never, ever even close for me. OR, they would say between 5% and 17%, or something, as if that was helpful.

So, I developed this method for speed and "near accuracy", and trust my own tastes, versus an "overly broad" range of starting percentages that did not work for me.

I share it here, for anyone interested in "a" method, that is quick and easy, and doesn't require a lot of clean-up....something I abhor! I remember way back when, I used more than 20 identical atomizers (Taifuns), and made a big mess trying to get to a starting percentage. This method is vastly superior, imho, so I wanted to share, once upon a time, when the question inevitably emerged, by those that must have felt the same way about speed, mess, and inaccurate charts. So, there you have it. Hope it helps! Or, perhaps someone will develop something easier and faster, and I'll use that too! Best!

Awesome explanation Bill; thank you!

Now it makes perfect sense to me. I love the idea of this for me. It seems like a fast, effective, and efficient method for zeroing in on an ideal percentage for me with the least amount of product used (especially if you omit VG and Nic).

I think I will make a small batch of 20/80/6mg. (maybe about 10 ml.) and do a couple of side-by-side comparisons of the same flavor(s) to see how much, if any, difference there is to flavor "muting" compared to straight PG. I want to keep it simple, and I like the idea of just plain PG, but I need to prove to myself that there is not going to be a significant difference when compared to a more representative PG/VG/Nic solution.

I do have two follow-up questions:
1) Do you have any suggestions for a flavor that might require LESS that 5%? I too have over 200 flavors (mostly TPA/TFA), but about 20(ish) that are from other manufacturers, and a couple of those recommend starting as low as 1-2%. I know I can always use the 100DT method for those, but if you have another/easier idea, I would love to hear it.

2) What type of coil build have you found most effective for testing? I understand that this is a loaded question and will vary quite a bit based on type of RDA, temp., and personal vaping preferences. I am thinking simple is best; single coil with minimal cotton (just enough to protrude beyond the ends of the coil. I have played a bit with a Clapton build without cotton but the taste of the juice was different than when used with cotton. And that is not normally they way I vape. I would think I want to keep it as similar to my "normal" set-up as is reasonable. (Normally I am a tank w/dual coils kinda guy but I don't see that as practical for this type of testing).

Thanks again for all your patience and hand-holding. I have found your knowledge, willingness, and expertise, invaluable.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Awesome explanation Bill; thank you!

Now it makes perfect sense to me. I love the idea of this for me. It seems like a fast, effective, and efficient method for zeroing in on an ideal percentage for me with the least amount of product used (especially if you omit VG and Nic).

I think I will make a small batch of 20/80/6mg. (maybe about 10 ml.) and do a couple of side-by-side comparisons of the same flavor(s) to see how much, if any, difference there is to flavor "muting" compared to straight PG. I want to keep it simple, and I like the idea of just plain PG, but I need to prove to myself that there is not going to be a significant difference when compared to a more representative PG/VG/Nic solution.

I do have two follow-up questions:
1) Do you have any suggestions for a flavor that might require LESS that 5%? I too have over 200 flavors (mostly TPA/TFA), but about 20(ish) that are from other manufacturers, and a couple of those recommend starting as low as 1-2%. I know I can always use the 100DT method for those, but if you have another/easier idea, I would love to hear it.

2) What type of coil build have you found most effective for testing? I understand that this is a loaded question and will vary quite a bit based on type of RDA, temp., and personal vaping preferences. I am thinking simple is best; single coil with minimal cotton (just enough to protrude beyond the ends of the coil. I have played a bit with a Clapton build without cotton but the taste of the juice was different than when used with cotton. And that is not normally they way I vape. I would think I want to keep it as similar to my "normal" set-up as is reasonable. (Normally I am a tank w/dual coils kinda guy but I don't see that as practical for this type of testing).

Thanks again for all your patience and hand-holding. I have found your knowledge, willingness, and expertise, invaluable.

To start with less than 5%, say 3%, take one drop of flavoring and add two drops PG. Take one drop of the mixture and add the 19 drops for a 3% starting point. For a 2%, add three PG drops to the one flavoring and use as one drop to nineteen drops. For one percent, add one drop to four drops PG, use one drop of mixture against 19 drops of PG. Pattern here! Easy Peasy!

For testing, I recommend using the same gear that you vape with every day. In my case, I use a taifun coil sans tank and vape the three drops. Translates well for me when I get to 100DT's which is probably closer to a 3 ml tank.

Good Luck!

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Some good suggestions here. And in the rest of the post.

I've been mixing for a year now and it's still mostly hit and miss for me. I started adding creams and vanillas, I think that was something I picked up from one of your posts. I knew the juice tasted better with that stuff in, but that was the closest I could get to understanding what was going on. Maybe it was the 50 years of smoking, or maybe I just don't have very discriminating taste buds.

I'm getting a little better now. I can observe the effect of sweet cream quite well. And I'm starting to be able to detect the difference between some of the different cream and vanilla flavours. Plus the Graham Cracker which I got recently and love. I liked Honey and didn't like Brown Sugar. I think it was the brown sugar taste that put me off but not sure.

I'm going to try making single flavor juice with each of the creams and vanillas etc, which I think is what you are suggesting. That might help. I guess it's a bit like wine tasting. It takes practice and technique. And how easy it is will depend on the individual.

I hear people talking here about their mixing activities. Like upping the percentage of cream or something from 3% to 4% to improve the juice. I'm kind of jealous because that level of skill seems so far beyond me right now. Maybe in another 5 years I'll get it. Having made a little progress, now I can somewhat appreciate what it takes to be professional juice maker and design something that really hits the spot.

Your vapor tongue and lack of taste will return quicker than you might believe, though it may not have returned yet. Besides, you're mixing for your current sense of taste anyway, which may require more flavoring to get the best results for you. Thank goodness you're making your own juice!

DIY does take patience, time, practice and experimentation. It's just as addictive as vaping and smoking. Caveat Emptor!

Stick with it and listen to others. Spend time in the vape lab and experiment. It'll come faster than you think, save money (after the initial investment), and provide another satisfying hobby to chew up the time that smoking used to consume. You'll get there! Just don't quit! and Good luck!

 

[IDJoel]

To start with less than 5%, say 3%, take one drop of flavoring and add two drops PG. Take one drop of the mixture and add the 19 drops for a 3% starting point. For a 2%, add three PG drops to the one flavoring and use as one drop to nineteen drops. For one percent, add one drop to four drops PG, use one drop of mixture against 19 drops of PG. Pattern here! Easy Peasy!

For testing, I recommend using the same gear that you vape with every day. In my case, I use a taifun coil sans tank and vape the three drops. Translates well for me when I get to 100DT's which is probably closer to a 3 ml tank.

Good Luck!

Thanks Bill,
That make sense and gives me a good starting point/points.

I hadn't thought to predilute the flavor. I'll have to re-calculate the arithmetic to recreate a chart similar to yours but having smaller incremental values for the lower percentages. Since I read your reply (and before posting this) I started playing with a spread sheet to see if I could recreate a similar "flavor chart" for those low-percent (between 1 and 5%) flavors (TFA's Absinthe comes to mind; I made a small 15 ml. batch of Remedy Black that Paddymx had previously compiled and with the Absinthe at only 6% it totally blew out my taste buds for most of the day). If I get anything worth while I will share it.

Regarding testing gear: I'll have to put a little thought into it; as I am using two Griffin tanks, and a Gemini tank, in my regular rotation. All with basically the same dual Clapton coil build on them. So three drops won't wet both coils adequately. I'll either redo the math for 4, or more likely 6 drops to vape, or just use a single coil dripper/RDA. I have one set up that my mixes taste VERY similar to the way they taste in my tanks.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Thanks Bill,
That make sense and gives me a good starting point/points.

I hadn't thought to predilute the flavor. I'll have to re-calculate the arithmetic to recreate a chart similar to yours but having smaller incremental values for the lower percentages. Since I read your reply (and before posting this) I started playing with a spread sheet to see if I could recreate a similar "flavor chart" for those low-percent (between 1 and 5%) flavors (TFA's Absinthe comes to mind; I made a small 15 ml. batch of Remedy Black that Paddymx had previously compiled and with the Absinthe at only 6% it totally blew out my taste buds for most of the day). If I get anything worth while I will share it.

Regarding testing gear: I'll have to put a little thought into it; as I am using two Griffin tanks, and a Gemini tank, in my regular rotation. All with basically the same dual Clapton coil build on them. So three drops won't wet both coils adequately. I'll either redo the math for 4, or more likely 6 drops to vape, or just use a single coil dripper/RDA. I have one set up that my mixes taste VERY similar to the way they taste in my tanks.

The chart is simple on the pre-dilution, as follows:

..................(<<<<Mixture>>>>)
Percentage...Flavor.........PG Drops......Mixture
5.0%..........1 drop.........0 drops.........Add 1 drop of mixture to 19 drops of PG
2.5%..........1 drop.........1 drop..........Add 1 drop of mixture to 19 drops of PG
1.0%..........1 drop.........4 drops.........Add 1 drop of mixture to 19 drops of PG
2.0%..........2 drops........3 drops.........Add 1 drop of mixture to 19 drops of PG
3.1%..........3 drops........2 drops.........Add 1 drop of mixture to 19 drops of PG
4.2%..........4 drops........1 drops.........Add 1 drop of mixture to 19 drops of PG

Because most primary flavorings require 5% or more flavoring for my tastes, generally speaking, starting at 5% is not a bad place to start. However, some flavors are super strong, and while they generally don't make great PRIMARY flavorings, you can use the chart above to calculate the percentages between 1% and 5%. The chart is rather easy to remember using a 5 drop method (see chart). Anyway, this is the way I do it.

Regarding complex coils setups, I wouldn't use them for testing, but would find a single coil setup that allowed me to get a comparative feel for the different strengths using only 3 drops. My thinking is to make things easier and faster, and not more complicated and slower, but that's just me. Anything that makes DIY more difficult, I generally throw out, and substitute the simplest method I can find, or create.

Remember, we're trying for a relatively close comparative analysis, not an exact mix, which we cannot get until we get to the 100DT anyway. Even then, some DIY'ers freak out because of drop sizes being different relative to viscosity issues, but I'm not really geared that way. I don't need exact to make great juice. Close works just fine for me, and for everyone else I know too (who never know the difference about any of these issues to start with).
Just my two cents......Good luck!

 

[IDJoel]

The chart is simple on the pre-dilution, as follows:

..................(<<<<Mixture>>>>)
Percentage...Flavor.........PG Drops......Mixture
5.0%..........1 drop.........0 drops.........Add 1 drop of mixture to 19 drops of PG
2.5%..........1 drop.........1 drop..........Add 1 drop of mixture to 19 drops of PG
1.0%..........1 drop.........4 drops.........Add 1 drop of mixture to 19 drops of PG
2.0%..........2 drops........3 drops.........Add 1 drop of mixture to 19 drops of PG
3.1%..........3 drops........2 drops.........Add 1 drop of mixture to 19 drops of PG
4.2%..........4 drops........1 drops.........Add 1 drop of mixture to 19 drops of PG

Because most primary flavorings require 5% or more flavoring for my tastes, generally speaking, starting at 5% is not a bad place to start. However, some flavors are super strong, and while they generally don't make great PRIMARY flavorings, you can use the chart above to calculate the percentages between 1% and 5%. The chart is rather easy to remember using a 5 drop method (see chart). Anyway, this is the way I do it.

Regarding complex coils setups, I wouldn't use them for testing, but would find a single coil setup that allowed me to get a comparative feel for the different strengths using only 3 drops. My thinking is to make things easier and faster, and not more complicated and slower, but that's just me. Anything that makes DIY more difficult, I generally throw out, and substitute the simplest method I can find, or create.

Remember, we're trying for a relatively close comparative analysis, not an exact mix, which we cannot get until we get to the 100DT anyway. Even then, some DIY'ers freak out because of drop sizes being different relative to viscosity issues, but I'm not really geared that way. I don't need exact to make great juice. Close works just fine for me, and for everyone else I know too (who never know the difference about any of these issues to start with).
Just my two cents......Good luck!

Bill,
Thank you so much for all your time and effort. I really appreciate it!

I agree with you about keeping it simple and close is good enough at this stage. I also agree that for the bulk of the TFA flavors I will start at 5% AND use your original chart where you are moving up in roughly 2.5% increments. By doing so you are covering from 5% all the way to 24.8% in no more than 9 trials. Fast and efficient. But, for the potent exceptions where 5% is too much, I wanted a secondary chart that would be for that 1-5% range and I want to increase a little more gradually.

When I mentioned recalculating I meant creating a compounding table like you did originally; and I think I worked it out based on your original work. I made a spreadsheet that did the arithmetic for me and I just had to plug in the drops of PG and diluted flavor until I got close to the percentage I wanted without using a ton of product. I gotta say I'm kinda pleased with myself. It has been a while since I attempted something like this. "Thanks Coach"; you helped me exercise my brain.

My results are this:
Start by making a 25% diluted flavor solution by mixing 5 drops of pure flavor with 15 drops of PG. This resulting solution will be used for my "Flavor drops." (This should give me 20 drops to work with)

Then:
1) Add 24 drops PG + 1 drop flavor solution = 25 total drops @ 1.00% -3 drops for vape = 22 drops
2) Add 0 drops PG + 1 drop flavor solution to remainder = 23 total drops @ 2.04% -3 vape = 20 drops
3) Add 1 drop PG + 1 drop flavor solution to remainder = 23 total drops @ 2.99% -3 vape = 19 drops
4) Add 6 drops PG + 2 drops flavor solution to remainder = 27 total drops @ 3.96% -3 vape = 24 dr.
5) Add 3 drops PG + 2 drops flavor solution to remainder = 29 total drops @ 5.00% -3 vape = 26 dr.
6) Add 2 drops PG + 2 drops flavor solution to remainder = 30 total drops @ 6.00% -3 vape = 27 dr.
7) Add 1 drop PG + 2 drops flavor solution to remainder = 30 total drops @ 7.07% -3 vape = 27 drops
8) Add 1 drop PG + 2 drops flavor solution to remainder = 30 total drops @ 8.03% -3 vape = 27 drops
9) Add 4 drops PG + 4 drops flavor solution to remainder = 35 total drops @ 9.05% -3 vape = 32 dr.

The math I used takes into account the 25% flavor solution is adding 0.75 drops of PG for every drop of solution added so I believe my percentages are correct. If you see any errors; I would be grateful if you would point them out.

Truthfully you could further streamline this by only working lines 1-5 which would allow you to reduce your flavor dilution down to 2 drops flavor diluted with 6 drops PG OR 3 drops flavor to 9 drops PG if you want a bit more cushion. I only extended it out to 9 different percentages because it was so easy once I got the spreadsheet set up.

Anyway, thanks for all the information, and encouragement. I would never have had the courage to try mixing without all your patient tutoring.
I tip my hat to you sir!

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Bill,
Thank you so much for all your time and effort. I really appreciate it!

I agree with you about keeping it simple and close is good enough at this stage. I also agree that for the bulk of the TFA flavors I will start at 5% AND use your original chart where you are moving up in roughly 2.5% increments. By doing so you are covering from 5% all the way to 24.8% in no more than 9 trials. Fast and efficient. But, for the potent exceptions where 5% is too much, I wanted a secondary chart that would be for that 1-5% range and I want to increase a little more gradually.

When I mentioned recalculating I meant creating a compounding table like you did originally; and I think I worked it out based on your original work. I made a spreadsheet that did the arithmetic for me and I just had to plug in the drops of PG and diluted flavor until I got close to the percentage I wanted without using a ton of product. I gotta say I'm kinda pleased with myself. It has been a while since I attempted something like this. "Thanks Coach"; you helped me exercise my brain.

My results are this:
Start by making a 25% diluted flavor solution by mixing 5 drops of pure flavor with 15 drops of PG. This resulting solution will be used for my "Flavor drops." (This should give me 20 drops to work with)

Then:
1) Add 24 drops PG + 1 drop flavor solution = 25 total drops @ 1.00% -3 drops for vape = 22 drops
2) Add 0 drops PG + 1 drop flavor solution to remainder = 23 total drops @ 2.04% -3 vape = 20 drops
3) Add 1 drop PG + 1 drop flavor solution to remainder = 23 total drops @ 2.99% -3 vape = 19 drops
4) Add 6 drops PG + 2 drops flavor solution to remainder = 27 total drops @ 3.96% -3 vape = 24 dr.
5) Add 3 drops PG + 2 drops flavor solution to remainder = 29 total drops @ 5.00% -3 vape = 26 dr.
6) Add 2 drops PG + 2 drops flavor solution to remainder = 30 total drops @ 6.00% -3 vape = 27 dr.
7) Add 1 drop PG + 2 drops flavor solution to remainder = 30 total drops @ 7.07% -3 vape = 27 drops
8) Add 1 drop PG + 2 drops flavor solution to remainder = 30 total drops @ 8.03% -3 vape = 27 drops
9) Add 4 drops PG + 4 drops flavor solution to remainder = 35 total drops @ 9.05% -3 vape = 32 dr.

The math I used takes into account the 25% flavor solution is adding 0.75 drops of PG for every drop of solution added so I believe my percentages are


Truthfully you could further streamline this by only working lines 1-5 which would allow you to reduce your flavor dilution down to 2 drops flavor diluted with 6 drops PG OR 3 drops flavor to 9 drops PG if you want a bit more cushion. I only extended it out to 9 different percentages because it was so easy once I got the spreadsheet set up.

Anyway, thanks for all the information, and encouragement. I would never have had the courage to try mixing without all your patient tutoring.
I tip my hat to you sir!

Well done. A labor of love! Good for you! Quit smoking and do mathematics! Gonna be a great year! Good luck!

 

[IDJoel]

Well done. A labor of love! Good for you! Quit smoking and do mathematics! Gonna be a great year! Good luck!

Thanks Bill,
I never would have done it without you blazing the trail.
Cheers my friend!

 

[hittman]

I was trying out a couple new flavors that I've had for a while but never got around to trying. They are French vanilla cream and biscuit. The French vanilla cream is really good. Just like the name it's a nice vanilla with a creamy finish. The biscuit I don't so much taste as feel. I think it might be good for adding texture to existing recipes.

 

[b.m.]

I was trying out a couple new flavors that I've had for a while but never got around to trying. They are French vanilla cream and biscuit. The French vanilla cream is really good. Just like the name it's a nice vanilla with a creamy finish. The biscuit I don't so much taste as feel. I think it might be good for adding texture to existing recipes.

I've had a 4oz. bottle of french vanilla cream for a year now,and still have never tasted it,i guess i need to get on that haha.What % did you try it at?

 

[SLM]

The biscuit I don't so much taste as feel. I think it might be good for adding texture to existing recipes.

Is that the INW biscuit? I ordered it just because I read it has a nice feel. Thanks!

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

I was trying out a couple new flavors that I've had for a while but never got around to trying. They are French vanilla cream and biscuit. The French vanilla cream is really good. Just like the name it's a nice vanilla with a creamy finish. The biscuit I don't so much taste as feel. I think it might be good for adding texture to existing recipes.

I've used the French Vanilla Cream in several recipes, most notably my milkshake base flavoring, which is a legitimate base/stone/milk. However, I do use the original French Vanilla Deluxe which contains the diketones. The French Vanilla Cream is essentially the same flavoring without the diketones. I like dikes. There. I said it! What can I say?

I found that the combination of the French vanilla deluxe coupled with the Vanilla Bean Ice Cream at 1:2.5 worked really well (2.5 times the VBIC to the FVD) in the Milkshake Odyssey Blog I layed out:

Milkshake Base Odyssey Journey | E-Cigarette Forum

"Surprisingly good", was what I gleaned from my notes way back when. I was looking for a strong, "in your face" vanilla, and while I did not try vanillin, I did try most of the other vanillas in my journey. It's not far from "in your face," imho. Here's the entire Base Vanilla Milkshake recipe:

Bill's Base Vanilla Milkshake

VBIC - 10%
Marshmallow - 5%
French Vanilla Deluxe - 4%
Sweetener - 3%
Dulce de Leche - 2%
Koolada - 1%

At 25% flavoring, there's still some room to add Primaries for fruit and chocolate flavored milkshakes, and I've done recipes on some of those in the dropbox. I think both the vanilla, strawberry and chocolate shakes worked really well for me. Also, if you haven't read the blog, it's a good primer on how to make juice, as I detailed each step of the process, and explained how I got from the "idea" to a finished flavoring. Definitely a good read for the new DIY'er. I added these notes, as well:

"I guess with that much vanilla and cream, the koolada is very, very subdued. Just a hint. Notice I also dropped the VBIC by another 1% and added 1% more FVD. Now the vanilla is right there. This is a good, solid base. May even be great after Bonding/Steeping. We shall see. There's 5% on the top for the other primary flavorings."

I have no experience with biscuit. I can see adding it as a supporting, secondary flavoring in any number of recipes. However, I do have several flavor solutions in recipes that may do what biscuit tries to do, or is thought that it might do. Creating a doughy background flavoring is rather tricky, at least for me, and in most cases I've focused on amplifying the primaries in most recipes, rather than trying to pin down the dough flavoring. For example, in many of the cereal recipes I've done, I've focused on the sweet milky flavoring at the bottom of the bowl, by using dulce de leche, rather than the doughy textured taste one experiences in the first bite of a bowl of cereal. This has worked better for me, and has been received favorably by those that have tried it. I liked this approach because my favorite was always the last spoonful of the sweet milky mixture at the bottom of the bowl anyway.

So, those are my thoughts on the French Vanilla and the biscuit flavorings. Good luck, Great Mixing, and Happy Vaping!

 

[SLM]

I have a bottle of commercial juice that has this... Thick, almost creamy feel and exhale to it. It's just so different from any other juice I've tried. I can't taste anything creamy in it though and cream doesn't give this same feel.

Any idea Bill?

 

[MsLoud]

I love Biscuit. When I add it to my mixes I use 3%. No less. No more. I find that percent gives me the mouth feel I want with the touch of richness my mix needs.

Spicy Biscuit is divine as well...has a red-hot cinnamon kick to it - this is what I use to make my Spicy Pear Nectar.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

I have a bottle of commercial juice that has this... Thick, almost creamy feel and exhale to it. It's just so different from any other juice I've tried. I can't taste anything creamy in it though and cream doesn't give this same feel.

Any idea Bill?

Doesn't ring any bells for me, and I'm wondering if there is a question here?

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

I love Biscuit. When I add it to my mixes I use 3%. No less. No more. I find that percent gives me the mouth feel I want with the touch of richness my mix needs.

Spicy Biscuit is divine as well...has a red-hot cinnamon kick to it - this is what I use to make my Spicy Pear Nectar.

Sounds divine, both do. Have you posted these recipes? Love to see them!

 

[MsLoud]

Sounds divine, both do. Have you posted these recipes? Love to see them!

Pear 10%
Vanilla Swirl 4%
Spicy Biscuit 3%
Brown Sugar 2%
Sweetener 2%
Dragon fruit 1% (I love this stuff in my fruit mixes - don't know why as I cant tolerate it above 1% haha but gives the fruits a nice rounded sweetness - similar to sweet raspberry which I also use in fruits. Dragon fruit gives a different depth than raspberry though. Try mixing with one or the other depending on the profile you're after.)

You'll also notice I use several different types of "sweeteners" in my recipes - this is because i enjoy the complexity of them added to mixes. So many times I see sweetener just thrown into a recipes without regard. Example - such as having brown sugar, sweetener and dragon fruit...each adds something but they are all sweet. It's like layering vanilla flavors. I tend to experience a more satisfying mixture when I layer similar flavors.

If I want 8% vanilla as a total - I may use the vanilla bean 2%, vanilla bourbon 2%, vanilla swirl 4%...like that.

In this recipe I wanted 5% sweetener because I dont want to overpower the main flavor of Pear but to compliment Pear's sweet side - I figure use half of the total of Pear (in my head this sounds right LOL) so I add brown sugar 2%, sweetener 2% and dragon fruit 1%. Vanilla and Bicuit added for richness - used Spicy Biscuit because well - I was going for Spicy Pear Nectar!

Meh, I read what I wrote and I sound nuts! But sometimes I think its good for people to get a glimpse into WHY we make what we make and the reasoning behind the recipe. Then again, I could just be full of poo and throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks!

Vape On and Mix Well!

 

[IDJoel]

Meh, I read what I wrote and I sound nuts! But sometimes I think its good for people to get a glimpse into WHY we make what we make and the reasoning behind the recipe. Then again, I could just be full of poo and throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks!

I don't know Ms. Loud,
Reads tasty, and worth a try, to me. Of course I have neither of the biscuits in my inventory... "Nuts!!" Oh well adding them to my next shopping list.

 

[Bill's Magic Vapor]

Pear 10%
Vanilla Swirl 4%
Spicy Biscuit 3%
Brown Sugar 2%
Sweetener 2%
Dragon fruit 1% (I love this stuff in my fruit mixes - don't know why as I cant tolerate it above 1% haha but gives the fruits a nice rounded sweetness - similar to sweet raspberry which I also use in fruits. Dragon fruit gives a different depth than raspberry though. Try mixing with one or the other depending on the profile you're after.)

You'll also notice I use several different types of "sweeteners" in my recipes - this is because i enjoy the complexity of them added to mixes. So many times I see sweetener just thrown into a recipes without regard. Example - such as having brown sugar, sweetener and dragon fruit...each adds something but they are all sweet. It's like layering vanilla flavors. I tend to experience a more satisfying mixture when I layer similar flavors.

If I want 8% vanilla as a total - I may use the vanilla bean 2%, vanilla bourbon 2%, vanilla swirl 4%...like that.

In this recipe I wanted 5% sweetener because I dont want to overpower the main flavor of Pear but to compliment Pear's sweet side - I figure use half of the total of Pear (in my head this sounds right LOL) so I add brown sugar 2%, sweetener 2% and dragon fruit 1%. Vanilla and Bicuit added for richness - used Spicy Biscuit because well - I was going for Spicy Pear Nectar!

Meh, I read what I wrote and I sound nuts! But sometimes I think its good for people to get a glimpse into WHY we make what we make and the reasoning behind the recipe. Then again, I could just be full of poo and throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks!

Vape On and Mix Well!

What a great looking recipe, and such a rich description of your process and reasoning! Love your explanation of the layering of vanillas and sweeteners, and heartily agree with your method!

I use both raspberry and strawberry to round out my fruits and cut the chemical/floral notes, like you use dragonfruit. That's new for me and I appreciate that technique. I'll have to play with that flavoring some more. I have only one dragonfruit recipe thus far.

Like you, I also love the complexity and richness of flavorings that six and seven ingredient flavorings (or more), add to the recipe, and the depth and richness of the mix. Your explanation on percentages makes perfect sense, and though I hadn't thought of it in terms of balance, but rather as a limiting percentage for secondaries/supports, so as not to overwhelm, I use very near the exact percentages myself, and, perhaps it is a question of proportion and balance, as you suggest. Very interesting!

Thank you for sharing. It helps a lot! Good luck!