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Bill's Magic Vapor

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@Bill's Magic Vapor - I thought I'd volunteer...but was secretly hoping you'd pop in here! :)

No one can explain it any better, nor easier, than the 1 who actually came up with the method! Wanted you to know that every time I make a new recipe and use it, I thank you for it, too. Has helped me tremendously! :thumbs:
Many, many thanks! :toast: :D

:thumb: :vapor:
 

Kenna

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I don't know if this will help ya Kenna, but ...
I test each flavor by it's self, when I first receive it.
What I do is make a (solo) 2ml sample of that flavor.
I use the e-juice-me up calculator, and drops.
I try to read reviews to give me a suggested % to start with.
Most of the time I end up guessing :cry:
So, because I'm guessing, I start with a low %.
When I vape it, I can add a drop of flavoring at a time until I like the flavor, or ... I can dilute it if it's to strong.
I keep a small unflavored bottle of my pg/vg base (with nicotine) for diluting purposes.
I do this to see how strong, weak, or sweet the flavor is on it's own.
From this, I can judge what it will contribute to a recipe, and about what % I will need.
Works for me, and (forgive me Bill :rolleyes:) but, I even find some flavors are good solo, and don't need anything else ... not that I don't play with them anyway[emoji14]With my taste buds :( this works for me.
That's what I need to do, too.

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Kenna

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Nothing to forgive. In my previous explanations, I said nothing about flavorings, other than a total percentage (25% in my example). I also taste test all my flavors and have provided a chart that allows me to do that ferociously quickly, without having to start over each time. While I don't have a single juice that is only one flavoring, I do believe that about 5%+/- of TFA flavorings are good on their own. But that's not that much. Additionally, I have found flavor combinations that work well for me, and, if you study my recipe book, you'll see the patterns in my flavorings. Because I used to make juice for the marketspace, I have some good experience with understanding what other vapers like, and have tried to make juices for those spaces, sometimes regardless of my own preferences. My favorite juices were never the marketspace's favorite juices, but that's a whole different story.

Slots, I have valued your posts since their inception and find that your own preferences have never stopped you from sharing your own experiences, whether they were different or not. You have done so with grace and generosity and I have always appreciated them, and look forward to them. Not everyone is as generous and respectful with their views, and I just wanted to take a moment to thank you! Best to you and good luck! :toast: :D

:thumb: :vapor:
I know i bookmarked your post on your mixing method for testing single flavors but can't find it. Can i get a do over?

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Bill's Magic Vapor

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I know i bookmarked your post on your mixing method for testing single flavors but can't find it. Can i get a do over?

Sent from my LG-V700 using Tapatalk
The Flavoring Chart that I use is on the Dropbox. My signature line has the link for the dropbox. Works easy peasy! Good luck! :toast: :D

:thumb: :vapor:
 

Slots

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Nothing to forgive.
Slots, I have valued your posts since their inception and find that your own preferences have never stopped you from sharing your own experiences, whether they were different or not. :toast:
Your so gracious Bill .. absolutely love gently bumping heads with you once in a while :wub:
I like to think we bring out the best in each other :p
 

Capt.shay

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I test each flavor by it's self, when I first receive it.
What I do is make a (solo) 2ml sample of that flavor.


This, right here! At least on tasting every flavor on it's own. Smelling a juice can only give you a clue of what a flavor may taste like and it may or may not be accurate. Just because it says "Cucumber" or what ever flavor on the bottle does not mean that it is actually going to taste like what you perceive as cucumber. You have to try them and see what they actually taste and feel like in your mouth to know how they may be used with others.

IMHO a 2ml sample is to small to work with and it doesn't leave you the flexibility to continue working on it. 10 ml is the least amount I will make for a tester. I use my nose to give me some idea of what percentage I might start with along with previous experience with that particular maker. I usually start with 10ml around 4% and then use a dripper to taste it. Then I will up the mix to 6% by adding the appropriate amount of flavor. It will not be perfectly, spot on 6% because you took some out and then added flavoring which will tilt the numbers ever so slightly but with a 10ml sized sample it will be really close. I will continue tasting and upping the % until it gets overpowering.

Any way you figure out how, I feel it is imperative for all mixers to taste each flavor on its own in order to truly know its flavor profile.
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

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This, right here! At least on tasting every flavor on it's own. Smelling a juice can only give you a clue of what a flavor may taste like and it may or may not be accurate. Just because it says "Cucumber" or what ever flavor on the bottle does not mean that it is actually going to taste like what you perceive as cucumber. You have to try them and see what they actually taste and feel like in your mouth to know how they may be used with others.

IMHO a 2ml sample is to small to work with and it doesn't leave you the flexibility to continue working on it. 10 ml is the least amount I will make for a tester. I use my nose to give me some idea of what percentage I might start with along with previous experience with that particular maker. I usually start with 10ml around 4% and then use a dripper to taste it. Then I will up the mix to 6% by adding the appropriate amount of flavor. It will not be perfectly, spot on 6% because you took some out and then added flavoring which will tilt the numbers ever so slightly but with a 10ml sized sample it will be really close. I will continue tasting and upping the % until it gets overpowering.

Any way you figure out how, I feel it is imperative for all mixers to taste each flavor on its own in order to truly know its flavor profile.
We don't often see much posting about our powerful sense of smell, and I'm glad you raised this point, in reference to flavor testing.

In my own experience, I've been absolutely stunned that my rather poor sense of smell has been so very helpful in making juice, particularly copying juices made by others. I can often, but not always, identify up to six different flavorings in a juice by simply smelling it. If this sounds remarkable, trust me, I felt the same way, during my journey. I've been able to discover the recipes of juices, often much later, after smell testing, in which I identified several very unlikely flavorings (rose comes to mind, as an example), only to later discover that I was correct, and remarkably so, at least from my own perspective. So, thank you for sharing this!

I often will mix up my juices using the 100DT method, which we have been discussing. This normally amounts to about 3 - 4 mls of juice, and I haven't had any difficulty using a sample that size, and remixing over and over, until I was satisfied with the flavoring, before making a larger sample. The most iterations that I have ever used to make a "final" juice is ten "adjustments." Often, four to six adjustments is probably about normal for me.

Regarding more complex mixes, this is where the fun really begins. I started by working with common flavorings....common to many juices, that is. I'm referring primarily with creams, vanillas and sweeteners (CVS). Try this example, as an experiment: compare perhaps sweet cream and sweetener to Bavarian cream and cotton candy. They are similar and very different, at the same time! Their differences, though, will be helpful in more complex mixes later on. I suggest, for the new mixer, to use, perhaps, 4% of each flavor and compare the two samples. After experiments with, perhaps, three different creams and sweeteners, add a vanilla (CVS) to the mix. Knowing the right creams, sweeteners (if any) and vanillas (CVS) for a particular flavor target will enable one to mix dozens, perhaps hundreds of different mixes together, all with different flavor results.

I did this myself, and have repeated these experiments many times. Knowing both the original single flavorings and the more complex CVS flavorings has been key to my own mixing development, and I can recommend these experiments for one's own mixing journey. First, the individual flavorings (I have a chart I use for starting percentages in the dropbox (Flavoring Chart), and, then later, adding the CVS flavorings to the arsenal, will put one leaps and bounds ahead of the game! I tend to think of each flavoring and each CVS combination as arrows for my quiver! The more arrows in the quiver, the better my arsenal, so to speak!

As we each have our very own taste and test sensibilities, what works for me, may need to be adjusted or changed for you. In the end, they are all just potential and possible suggestions for use by each of us, with no guarantee as to accuracy, or even adequacy, either way. We can and do learn from each other. However, much of this journey is learned by trial and error in our vape labs, and, often times, there are differences in our perceptions, so we do find ourselves often groping in the dark for the light switch....the answer to the question, the missing puzzle piece that can prove elusive, from time to time. There is no substitution for experimentation and trial and error. Give it a go, my friends, and Good luck! You will get there in time. Be patient and diligent. It will come...often uniquely, in its own way, for you! Best!! :toast: :D

:thumb: :vapor:
 

Kenna

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We don't often see much posting about our powerful sense of smell, and I'm glad you raised this point, in reference to flavor testing.

In my own experience, I've been absolutely stunned that my rather poor sense of smell has been so very helpful in making juice, particularly copying juices made by others. I can often, but not always, identify up to six different flavorings in a juice by simply smelling it. If this sounds remarkable, trust me, I felt the same way, during my journey. I've been able to discover the recipes of juices, often much later, after smell testing, in which I identified several very unlikely flavorings (rose comes to mind, as an example), only to later discover that I was correct, and remarkably so, at least from my own perspective. So, thank you for sharing this!

I often will mix up my juices using the 100DT method, which we have been discussing. This normally amounts to about 3 - 4 mls of juice, and I haven't had any difficulty using a sample that size, and remixing over and over, until I was satisfied with the flavoring, before making a larger sample. The most iterations that I have ever used to make a "final" juice is ten "adjustments." Often, four to six adjustments is probably about normal for me.

Regarding more complex mixes, this is where the fun really begins. I started by working with common flavorings....common to many juices, that is. I'm referring primarily with creams, vanillas and sweeteners (CVS). Try this example, as an experiment: compare perhaps sweet cream and sweetener to Bavarian cream and cotton candy. They are similar and very different, at the same time! Their differences, though, will be helpful in more complex mixes later on. I suggest, for the new mixer, to use, perhaps, 4% of each flavor and compare the two samples. After experiments with, perhaps, three different creams and sweeteners, add a vanilla (CVS) to the mix. Knowing the right creams, sweeteners (if any) and vanillas (CVS) for a particular flavor target will enable one to mix dozens, perhaps hundreds of different mixes together, all with different flavor results.

I did this myself, and have repeated these experiments many times. Knowing both the original single flavorings and the more complex CVS flavorings has been key to my own mixing development, and I can recommend these experiments for one's own mixing journey. First, the individual flavorings (I have a chart I use for starting percentages in the dropbox (Flavoring Chart), and, then later, adding the CVS flavorings to the arsenal, will put one leaps and bounds ahead of the game! I tend to think of each flavoring and each CVS combination as arrows for my quiver! The more arrows in the quiver, the better my arsenal, so to speak!

As we each have our very own taste and test sensibilities, what works for me, may need to be adjusted or changed for you. In the end, they are all just potential and possible suggestions for use by each of us, with no guarantee as to accuracy, or even adequacy, either way. We can and do learn from each other. However, much of this journey is learned by trial and error in our vape labs, and, often times, there are differences in our perceptions, so we do find ourselves often groping in the dark for the light switch....the answer to the question, the missing puzzle piece that can prove elusive, from time to time. There is no substitution for experimentation and trial and error. Give it a go, my friends, and Good luck! You will get there in time. Be patient and diligent. It will come...often uniquely, in its own way, for you! Best!! :toast: :D

:thumb: :vapor:
I SO appreciate you, Bill. Your knowledge & willingness to share it & help those of us just beginning this endeavor is wonderful. I know it took you years to figure all of this out for yourself & yet to share it so we don't have to do that too. You are a genuinely good man! Rare.
 

Simply Red

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Try taking a whiff of TFA Cranberry. Smells just like olives.
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Capt.shay

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Yup, smelling a concentrate can help but it really is only a clue. It may be right and it may be all wrong.

On the other hand, smelling a finished juice is usually pretty darn close. Not always, but usually. One of my favorite things to do is go down to my LVS and ask the clerk I'm friendly with what the newest and coolest flavor is. I'll take a smell of it and then go home and come back in a half hour and say "try this". I can usually clone that juice I smelled to the point that the shop people say I hit it dead on. I know it isn't dead on but it is usually close enough that it fools the kids at the shop.

To me. FW RY4 smells like old sneakers and Gorgonzola.
 

Simply Red

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Maybe try one of the web based ones like Ecigvape.com maybe? I use it on my phone and it works good in my opinion. I'm sure there are others too.

I use it on my iPhone and iPad. Works great and you can save 300 recipes there.
 
Hey guys.. I am still around.. I have made 4 of the vapes I said above.. I have been taking time to understand the vapes and what is good and wrong with them.. Sorry @Bill's Magic Vapor it isn't your vape.. It is just people are diffrent.. The recipe is legit but my teaste is not the same..

So I did all the ones I did.. I will add my recipe and notes what and how I did and still thinking about what I need or whatever..

In the future I plan on working with more of Bill's vapes and see if I can make a lot.. I plan on doing 30 and 120 ml bottles of flavoring.. I did learn I am burning through alot of VG and realized If you are going to start.. Just get a gallon of VG if you run 70/30 or more on vape because the PG dont get used much because the flavors got pg in them.. Same with nic if you get it that way..

Anyway.. here are my thoughts on what I did so far.. But @Bill's Magic Vapor You did a good job on the vapes.. They are all good... I just wanna change some.

This is my points on here with each recipe.. I guess others should do the same.. I think it is a good idea so you know what is up and what isnt.

Pre Notes:
There are abbreviations on the list here.
Exp: Double Dark Chocolate is DDC.

Snickers
Double Dark Chocolate
Milk Chocolate
Caramel
Barvanian Cream
Peanut Butter
Sweet Cream
Sweetneer

Notes:
Needs less peanut flavoring.
Still evaluating this recipe.

===========================

Rootbeer Float
Rootbeer Float
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream
Koolada
Sweetnener
Added:
2% Vanilla Swirl

Notes:
We changed the Float from 10% to 8% and added VS to it.
New recipe goes instead of 10% Root beer we add 2% VS.

===========================

Frosted Donuts
Frosted donuts
Sweet Cream
Sweetener
Vanilla Swirl
Cotton Candy
Butter

Notes:
Needs reworked.

============================

Fudge Brownie Sundae
Fudge Brownie
French Vanilla Deluxe
Vanilla Bean Ice Cream
Vanilla Swirl
Sweetener
Whipped Cream
//Cherry

Notes:
May need cherry flavoring.. Taste like premade brownies and dark chocolate.
Possible up the VS or VBIC.

============================

Snickers + Fudge Brownie Sundue
Mixed both together after making seperately.

Notes:
Dorothy's being ghey about all the things.

The Flavoring Chart that I use is on the Dropbox. My signature line has the link for the dropbox. Works easy peasy! Good luck! :toast: :D

:thumb: :vapor:

I have to agree with Bill on this.. That program is a good one to use... it is really simple and straight forward.. and it saves all the recipes in it for you.. I am guessing you can have an infinite amount of recipes there..

What I do is just take a pic with my phone of the recipe use it like that..
 
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