The Muffin Man and The Milk Man - Company's response to Diacetyl, Acetoin or Acetyl Propionyl

[Lessifer]

Manufacturers of a product that is distributed to the masses has to bear some form of responsibility. At the very least, they should know what is in their product. Shouldn't matter what the product is. A very simple question along the lines of "what does your product contain?" Should be followed with a very simple response.

One of the main problems with an issue like this is that the vendor usually isn't "manufacturing" anything. They are combining ingredients that they have sourced from another location. The recipe may be theirs, but the recipes for the constituents are not. If they are using commercial flavorings, that information may or may not be available to them. This is why test results are necessary, if this concerns you.

I don't favor mandatory testing for "potential risks."

If the potential risk concerns you, ask for test results, if you don't get them, don't buy.

 

[Richriv]

There was a situation last year with Cuttwood's Unicorn Milk in that the maker admitted to adding a white food coloring to give the liquid its creamy appearance. The maker stated that the food coloring was safe for consumption. As the story goes, the food coloring contained Titanium Dioxide, which is classified as a carcinogen. The maker quickly reformulated once the story broke. So people can question our motives here all they please but the reality of the situation is that any Tom, Dick and Harry can bottle e juice and sell. I'd be a fool not to want to know what it contains.

 

[Richriv]

One of the main problems with an issue like this is that the vendor usually isn't "manufacturing" anything. They are combining ingredients that they have sourced from another location. The recipe may be theirs, but the recipes for the constituents are not. If they are using commercial flavorings, that information may or may not be available to them. This is why test results are necessary, if this concerns you.

I don't favor mandatory testing for "potential risks."

If the potential risk concerns you, ask for test results, if you don't get them, don't buy.

Not telling me anything I don't already know or don't already practice.

 

[Lessifer]

Not telling me anything I don't already know or don't already practice.

Neither is this thread. So far we have:
1. OP didn't see any information regarding diketones.
2. OP asked for information.
3. No test results are publicly available at this time.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say the OP did not intend to call this company out as of the original post, but that begs the question, what was the point of the original post? Are we going to start publicly calling out every vendor that doesn't post results? If they don't post results, you will see that there are no results posted.

 

[Richriv]

Neither is this thread. So far we have:
1. OP didn't see any information regarding diketones.
2. OP asked for information.
3. No test results are publicly available at this time.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say the OP did not intend to call this company out as of the original post, but that begs the question, what was the point of the original post? Are we going to start publicly calling out every vendor that doesn't post results? If they don't post results, you will see that there are no results posted.

Understood. The intended purpose of the original post could also have been an innocent attempt at sharing information. Typically, information is what I seek when I visit this forum.

 

[Lessifer]

Understood. The intended purpose of the original post could also have been an innocent attempt at sharing information. Typically, information is what I seek when I visit this forum.

I agree, which is why I'm giving the benefit of the doubt, but again, no actual information was shared because there isn't any information as of yet.

This is a different situation from the other thread where a vendor said one thing, and there were test results showing something different.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

I'd be a fool not to want to know what it contains.

Only for the "scare du jour".
In ten years we may find out that artificial strawberry flavoring is a problem.
But it was only a problem for eight people who exclusively chain vaped strawberry for 8 years. Food flavoring hasn't been extensively tested for inhalation dangers. While it is deemed safe for consumption, doesn't mean it is safe for inhalation. While PG is deemed safe for inhalation, and is used in inhalers for drug delivery, has it been deemed safe for the quantities vapers inhale, for long periods (years)?

"Everything" in moderation is safe.
Anything in excess is potentially harmful.
10 cigarettes a day is safer than 60 cigarettes a day.
No cigarettes a day is safer than than 10 cigarettes a day.

 

[YoursTruli]

CDC - Flavorings-Related Lung Disease: Exposures to Flavoring Chemicals - NIOSH Workplace Safety and Health Topic

 

[Mazinny]

" Everything " in moderation is not safe ! Just saying

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

" Everything " in moderation is not safe ! Just saying

You KNOW the point I was making. Just sayin'.

 

[Mazinny]

Neither is this thread. So far we have:
1. OP didn't see any information regarding diketones.
2. OP asked for information.
3. No test results are publicly available at this time.

I'll give the benefit of the doubt and say the OP did not intend to call this company out as of the original post, but that begs the question, what was the point of the original post? Are we going to start publicly calling out every vendor that doesn't post results? If they don't post results, you will see that there are no results posted.

Have you considered the possibility that if it it were not for post # 5, this thread would have died in less than five or six posts ?

 

[Mazinny]

You KNOW the point I was making. Just sayin'.

yeah, just fooling around trying to lighten up the mood a little.

 

[sparkky1]

So if the muffin man or the milk man answered back and said we regret to inform you that all our juices contain Acetyl proprionyl, acetyl proprionyl and were diacetyl free but really sad to inform you it also has Cinnamon Ceylon in it too what would your thoughts be ? Do you think 5 paws, suicide bunny, mt baker, zeus juice, goodjuce etc have magic fairy dust they just made yesterday to make there recipes even tastier (safer) ? I'm not even going to mention the 1000's of manufactures online that are working out of there living room.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

yeah, just fooling around trying to lighten up the mood a little.

Then for garsh sakes, PLEASE use comic sans.

 

[Mazinny]

Then for garsh sakes, PLEASE use comic sans.

yeah, sorry i'm not very good with emoticons or whatever !

 

[sparkky1]

These are chemist that are designing these flavors with one thought "people will eat this and love it"
Food Labs Use An Average of 2000 Chemicals To Create 500 'Natural Flavors' You Would Never Suspect Are Artificial

 

[sparkky1]

Don't forget about these special chemist too ............ pick your poison wisely .........
CDC - 2010 Surgeon General's Report - Chemicals in Tobacco Smoke - Smoking & Tobacco Use

 

[Lessifer]

Have you considered the possibility that if it it were not for post # 5, this thread would have died in less than five or six posts ?

That is possible, but the fact would remain that it was started to begin with. People are free to post whatever they want within the TOS, but we seem to currently be under this umbrella of fear.

There are some things in e-liquid that some smart people have made some educated guesses and said, we should be concerned about this, and if possible remove it as an unnecessary risk. Through the magic of the internet, that becomes "these vendors are selling liquid poison."

I want people to be furnished with facts, not just fear.

 

[KattMamma]

CDC - Flavorings-Related Lung Disease: Exposures to Flavoring Chemicals - NIOSH Workplace Safety and Health Topic

From that link :

Workers in microwave popcorn manufacturing are exposed to many materials besides diacetyl. Thus, NIOSH's initial studies in a total of 6 microwave popcorn plants were not able to definitely determine if diacetyl exposure contributed to lung disease or was a marker for other hazardous substances that contributed to disease.

(emphasis mine)

 

[Rossum]

I take issue with these kinds of threads because of these types of comments. These compounds are NOT KNOWN TO CAUSE ANYTHING. They are suspected of causation, but the suspicion actually involves an industrial setting

It's true, we don't know for sure, but what you fail to mention is that the suspicion is further corroborated by studies on animals that were exposed to diketone vapors (and nothing else) where those vapors did produce lung damage.