The United States of Fear - Part 1

[F34r]

All this panic and outcry..

You guys do know beer, wine and liquor are all alcohol but are regulated differently with different taxes, manufacturing and process? The same will apply for vaping vs. cigarettes, snuff and other NDS.

It won't cost a million dollars like everyone is .....ing, it isn't cigarettes; it won't be the same fees; in fact if you go to the FDA site and read the I'm a manufacturer page, there's no fees even up yet; a deeming regulation is yet to determine what the true cost or process will be.

So your favorite vape shop will not stock up mg levels that don't sell, juice suppliers won't continue making levels that aren't in demand and is vapers will get a surplus of our favorite nic levels in stock.

[removed]

Don't forget there are vaping millionaires looking to invest in small companies and turn them to money making corporations, expect to see the rise in actual real deal high volume companies.

Alas, we always find workarounds the law. BB guns can't be shipped to NY by federal law yet they do it anyway, regulars in bars still smoke indoors and we will continue to survive past this.

To think the gov won't collect their sin tax for this long is all but an illusion. They calculated this for years, when vaping is now in its prime it's the perfect time for the hand to dip in the cookie jar.

Everything will be ok.

 

[Hulamoon]

Did you actually read the deeming? (Btw...no reference to other "stuff" on forum).

 

[F34r]

Did you actually read the deeming? (Btw...no reference to other "stuff" on forum).

Very carefully, it's all just standard "this is how we make profit off this" verbiage. It's not about health, it's about time to get paid. Our gov is best at doing this, we're just not used to it at this level. It won't end vaping, I promise you.

 

[Train2]

Everything might end up OK, but I think you're wrong on a couple fronts.

I think your favorite vape shop is doomed.
If they wrap a coil or mix some juice or sell an unapproved mod, they will be
a) Warned once
b) Fined the second, third and subsequent times - up to eventual forced bankruptcy and closure.

No devices will be approved, except "closed" systems like Blu.
And it WILL cost big bucks for them to complete the required studies you have to attach to your application - for every device variant, every flavor, and every strength. So, no "application fee" - but it will cost at somewhere in the range of a half-mil in "lab studies and lawyers" per app.

That's all starting 2 years from now, if the grandfather date isn't forced to change, or some other rather dramatic victory for vapers achieved.

All this panic and outcry..

You guys do know beer, wine and liquor are all alcohol but are regulated differently with different taxes, manufacturing and process? The same will apply for vaping vs. cigarettes, snuff and other NDS.

It won't cost a million dollars like everyone is .....ing, it isn't cigarettes; it won't be the same fees; in fact if you go to the FDA site and read the I'm a manufacturer page, there's no fees even up yet; a deeming regulation is yet to determine what the true cost or process will be.

So your favorite vape shop will not stock up mg levels that don't sell, juice suppliers won't continue making levels that aren't in demand and is vapers will get a surplus of our favorite nic levels in stock.

[removed]

Don't forget there are vaping millionaires looking to invest in small companies and turn them to money making corporations, expect to see the rise in actual real deal high volume companies.

Alas, we always find workarounds the law. BB guns can't be shipped to NY by federal law yet they do it anyway, regulars in bars still smoke indoors and we will continue to survive past this.

To think the gov won't collect their sin tax for this long is all but an illusion. They calculated this for years, when vaping is now in its prime it's the perfect time for the hand to dip in the cookie jar.

Everything will be ok.

 

[Hulamoon]

Actually it could. By deeming back to 2007, all that's left is those ghastly BT sticks and the God-knows-what they put in them. I hear what you're saying, but the tax that government could get is far less than ANTZ is receiving; and they're hollering because cigarette tax is dwindling because of vaping. That means ANTZ companies are losing cigarette grants that pay their rotten lying fraudulent wages. BT lost about 4B in cigarette revenue. Big Pharma is hollering because they want to sell you an A.D. that makes people jump out of windows, or gums and lozenges that have a 95% fail rate. They WANT to keep people smoking too, because of all that jolly lolly that floods in when people need cancer, emphysema etc ad nauseum treatment and drugs.

 

[WillyZee]

All this panic and outcry..

You guys do know beer, wine and liquor are all alcohol but are regulated differently with different taxes, manufacturing and process? The same will apply for vaping vs. cigarettes, snuff and other NDS.

It won't cost a million dollars like everyone is .....ing, it isn't cigarettes; it won't be the same fees; in fact if you go to the FDA site and read the I'm a manufacturer page, there's no fees even up yet; a deeming regulation is yet to determine what the true cost or process will be.

So your favorite vape shop will not stock up mg levels that don't sell, juice suppliers won't continue making levels that aren't in demand and is vapers will get a surplus of our favorite nic levels in stock.

[removed]

Don't forget there are vaping millionaires looking to invest in small companies and turn them to money making corporations, expect to see the rise in actual real deal high volume companies.

Alas, we always find workarounds the law. BB guns can't be shipped to NY by federal law yet they do it anyway, regulars in bars still smoke indoors and we will continue to survive past this.

To think the gov won't collect their sin tax for this long is all but an illusion. They calculated this for years, when vaping is now in its prime it's the perfect time for the hand to dip in the cookie jar.

Everything will be ok.

I think you are wrong on every point you are trying to make ... particularly the last one.

 

[Hulamoon]

Oh - and personally I'll go with my favorite suppliers of juice and equipment than take a bet on what BT is going to put into their (take it or leave it) stupid and ineffective little sticks. I can't say they fooled me once already. I knew the dangers of smoking. But I'll be damned if I'll believe that Government and Big Tobacco will make the juice a better quality OR as pure as my favorite juice suppliers. IF BT gets it all, complete with undocumented add-ins to deliberately addict the user, and kids are dumb enough to try them, then everything ANTZ is CURRENTLY saying about vaping being a gateway to smoking WILL be absolutely true.

 

[F34r]

Everything might end up OK, but I think you're wrong on a couple fronts.

I think your favorite vape shop is doomed.
If they wrap a coil or mix some juice or sell an unapproved mod, they will be
a) Warned once
b) Fined the second, third and subsequent times - up to eventual forced bankruptcy and closure.

No devices will be approved, except "closed" systems like Blu.
And it WILL cost big bucks for them to complete the required studies you have to attach to your application - for every device variant, every flavor, and every strength. So, no "application fee" - but it will cost at somewhere in the range of a half-mil in "lab studies and lawyers" per app.

That's all starting 2 years from now, if the grandfather date isn't forced to change, or some other rather dramatic victory for vapers achieved.

The vape store ruling is actually not so bad, other then inventory cuts they have to only abide by simple rules..
1. ID please, thanks.
2. You look under 18/21 (in different states) get out of here.
3. No mixing, no modifying or changing products otherwise known as manufacturing.
4. Only purchase inventory from FDA approved suppliers (certificate and license number by the FDA will be required)
5. No sampling bar, unless it's regulars after hours.

That's pretty much it, keep these rules kept and bent under closed doors and you're good to go.

Manufacturers will be able to also bend rules, also rules won't be as strict towards 2nd generation devices using the same boards and approved components of first generation mods that will be approved, very easy stuff down the line.

Granted, there will be hoops to jump through but it will be ok.

 

[sofarsogood]

Congress gave the Federal Drug Administration authority to do literally anything concerning vaping without restriction. They do not have the authority to ban tobacco but they do have the authority to ban electronic cigarettes. Their "rules" are meaningless because they are subject to change any time without limitation.

 

[WillyZee]

The vape store ruling is actually not so bad, other then inventory cuts they have to only abide by simple rules..
1. ID please, thanks.
2. You look under 18/21 (in different states) get out of here.
3. No mixing, no modifying or changing products otherwise known as manufacturing.
4. Only purchase inventory from FDA approved suppliers (certificate and license number by the FDA will be required)
5. No sampling bar, unless it's regulars after hours.

That's pretty much it, keep these rules kept and bent under closed doors and you're good to go.

Manufacturers will be able to also bend rules, also rules won't be as strict towards 2nd generation devices using the same boards and approved components of first generation mods that will be approved, very easy stuff down the line.

Granted, there will be hoops to jump through but it will be ok.

ok, I'll play along on #4 ... please name a few companies you think will be able to get their products FDA approved?

and I don't mean NJOY with their cigalikes

 

[daviedog]

All this panic and outcry..

You guys do know beer, wine and liquor are all alcohol but are regulated differently with different taxes, manufacturing and process? The same will apply for vaping vs. cigarettes, snuff and other NDS.

It won't cost a million dollars like everyone is .....ing, it isn't cigarettes; it won't be the same fees; in fact if you go to the FDA site and read the I'm a manufacturer page, there's no fees even up yet; a deeming regulation is yet to determine what the true cost or process will be.

So your favorite vape shop will not stock up mg levels that don't sell, juice suppliers won't continue making levels that aren't in demand and is vapers will get a surplus of our favorite nic levels in stock.

[removed]

Don't forget there are vaping millionaires looking to invest in small companies and turn them to money making corporations, expect to see the rise in actual real deal high volume companies.

Alas, we always find workarounds the law. BB guns can't be shipped to NY by federal law yet they do it anyway, regulars in bars still smoke indoors and we will continue to survive past this.

To think the gov won't collect their sin tax for this long is all but an illusion. They calculated this for years, when vaping is now in its prime it's the perfect time for the hand to dip in the cookie jar.

Everything will be ok.

What? Me worry..

 

[F34r]

ok, I'll play along on #4 ... please name a few companies you think will be able to get their products FDA approved?

and I don't mean NJOY with their cigalikes

AV, Kennedy and Limitless

These guys will be the first to stay on the shelves.

 

[Hitmetwice]

How far the vapenazis will go is yet to be seen. By a vendor setting up a customer, they install a battery, install a coil, add juice hand it to customer. Is this not the assembly of an e-cigarette? Could this be viewed as "manufacturing" or at least part of the process? And the authorities enforce it as such.

If so? It won't be pretty. Cheers.

 

[WillyZee]

AV, Kennedy and Limitless

These guys will be the first to stay on the shelves.

I'm willing to bet you none of those even submit the paperwork on gear they already have out there ... and second, I'll bet you we see nothing new from them.

 

[skoony]

Very carefully, it's all just standard "this is how we make profit off this" verbiage. It's not about health, it's about time to get paid. Our gov is best at doing this, we're just not used to it at this level. It won't end vaping, I promise you.

The vape store ruling is actually not so bad, other then inventory cuts they have to only abide by simple rules..
1. ID please, thanks.
2. You look under 18/21 (in different states) get out of here.
3. No mixing, no modifying or changing products otherwise known as manufacturing.
4. Only purchase inventory from FDA approved suppliers (certificate and license number by the FDA will be required)
5. No sampling bar, unless it's regulars after hours.

That's pretty much it, keep these rules kept and bent under closed doors and you're good to go.

Manufacturers will be able to also bend rules, also rules won't be as strict towards 2nd generation devices using the same boards and approved components of first generation mods that will be approved, very easy stuff down the line.

Granted, there will be hoops to jump through but it will be ok.

Correct me if I am wrong but, didn't you say you read the regulations? None of your assessments are even close.
Regards
Mike

 

[F34r]

How far the vapenazis will go is yet to be seen. By a vendor setting up a customer, they install a battery, install a coil, add juice hand it to customer. Is this not the assembly of an e-cigarette? Could this be viewed as "manufacturing" or at least part of the process? And the authorities enforce it as such.

If so? It won't be pretty. Cheers.

Assembly is not manufacturing, though making coils can fall in a gray area not yet known.

There will be a "task force" and a rewarding snitch program to catch shops like South 9 Vapes who mix and label their own blends and juice.

Licensing is step 1 of getting the money, enforcing (using) the law to fine and collect money is the other.

 

[WillyZee]

South 9 will be gone ... they too will submit zero paperwork to be FDA approved.


Sent via iPhone

 

[kbeam418]

First of Mitch Zeller said that will cost anywhere between 150,000 to over one million per PMTA application. The other stuff cost MUCH more than it does on the street BTW. Sorry but I believe CASAA not you. You're a fool if you believe shops will still exist if these deeming regulations stay the same. Hell cigar shops won't even exist!

 

[snork]

All this panic and outcry..

You guys do know beer, wine and liquor are all alcohol but are regulated differently with different taxes, manufacturing and process? The same will apply for vaping vs. cigarettes, snuff and other NDS.

It won't cost a million dollars like everyone is .....ing, it isn't cigarettes; it won't be the same fees; in fact if you go to the FDA site and read the I'm a manufacturer page, there's no fees even up yet; a deeming regulation is yet to determine what the true cost or process will be.

So your favorite vape shop will not stock up mg levels that don't sell, juice suppliers won't continue making levels that aren't in demand and is vapers will get a surplus of our favorite nic levels in stock.

Don't forget there are vaping millionaires looking to invest in small companies and turn them to money making corporations, expect to see the rise in actual real deal high volume companies.

Alas, we always find workarounds the law. BB guns can't be shipped to NY by federal law yet they do it anyway, regulars in bars still smoke indoors and we will continue to survive past this.

To think the gov won't collect their sin tax for this long is all but an illusion. They calculated this for years, when vaping is now in its prime it's the perfect time for the hand to dip in the cookie jar.

Everything will be ok.

I need to ask why you created an ECF account specifically to open this thread? Obviously you think you know something of the subject, but without any prior history your out of the blue posting appears to be nothing but trolling.

At any rate, personally I prefer the world as it is now rather than the one you predict.

 

[supertrunker]

If i told you that you have to use a car manufactured before 2007...

T