The "Well its gotta be bad for you!" Mentality

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Lessifer

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I agree.

So why don't we Not Jump to any Conclusion as to a Person's motivations when it comes to what they choose to put in their Bodies.

Or Lump People into Groups just to try and Bolster one's Position on a Topic.

I don't jump to conclusions, I base my opinions of people and their views on what they post/say. Concern leads to making personal judgement calls, unfounded beliefs lead to unfounded regulations, like "sin" taxes, or public vaping bans.
 

zoiDman

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I don't jump to conclusions, I base my opinions of people and their views on what they post/say. Concern leads to making personal judgement calls, unfounded beliefs lead to unfounded regulations, like "sin" taxes, or public vaping bans.

Gotcha.

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caramel

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what they choose to put in their Bodies.
.

You don't want to know.

EIZO6.png
 

Jman8

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Where do you come up with Stuff like "Smoker's Guilt"? LOL

Not sure why People just can't have Concern about the Chemicals that they put in their Bodies via Vaping?

Kinda link they did when the Smoked.

You think I made up the concept of "smoker's guilt?" You haven't heard of it before?

Concern (about chemicals being put into one's body) = "I have this concern for myself."
This thread is about 'vaper's guilt' = Must be bad for you (where you equals general you and ought to be concern for everyone that uses these products)

Kinda like when people smoked and expressed smoker's guilt, as in - of course it is bad for you, haven't you read the information about all the deaths and stuff. I'm glad they have taken away all my rights for smoking because I feel ashamed that I enjoyed doing it wherever I pleased and guilty that I was hurting people near me. How awful am I to be enjoying something that is obviously killing me and hurting other people.

Thus not really a concern, but a narrative about spreading misconceptions, as OP so rightfully noted.
 

nvadasz

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Not to beat a horse to death, but a friend of mine had a heart attack a couple of weeks ago. They gave him an option to quit smoking or died...Having said that, there was a therapist that came in to talk to him about quitting cigs. Patches, gum etc. was suggested. He asked about vaping and he was told as long as he kept the nicotine levels down or nothing, that too would be a viable option.

I know what it's done for me,and have no guilt over making the switch...
 

zoiDman

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You think I made up the concept of "smoker's guilt?" You haven't heard of it before?

Concern (about chemicals being put into one's body) = "I have this concern for myself."
This thread is about 'vaper's guilt' = Must be bad for you (where you equals general you and ought to be concern for everyone that uses these products)

...

Not saying you made it up. Just Questioning how well the concept of "Vaper's Guilt", either Real of Imaginary, applies to the Average Person.
 

Jman8

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Not saying you made it up. Just Questioning how well the concept of "Vaper's Guilt", either Real of Imaginary, applies to the Average Person.

In this thread, given what OP has conveyed, it applies 100%. Outside of this thread, who knows? IMO, outside of this thread, I think vapers are allowing a whole lot of teeny tiny 'safety issues' to lead them on a path that equates to vaper's guilt. I believe some vapers are self determining that vapor is rather harmful (according to their reasoning) and advocating for things that feeds right into what FDA was going for, or likely will continue to go for.

Fast forward to a time where plausible majority of vapers are convinced that vapor contains some very harmful stuff, and they feel guilty about doing it (knowing they are harming themselves). Around this time, assuming the previous sentence holds true, I imagine that regardless of what science says, that these same vapers will be convinced that no one should ever vape around anyone else, in any situation, other than outdoors, because the belief will be that it is harming other people. Thus the vaper's guilt meme will be firmly established.

That we already see some of this in today's vape world is not very promising. That the overly concerned crowd does receive flak from within the vaping community, pleases me. Especially considering their use of science is routinely based on junk.
 

Deeo

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I have no doubt that vaping has saved my life. With vaping I can feel the benefits of quitting cigarettes. We don't know the long term effects or if there are any. But we do know the long term and short term effects of smoking. I was one who had tried many things even cold turkey to quit and nothing but vaping has worked. I don't worry about the long term effects because it can't be worse then smoking. I truly don't believe there are any major long term effect. Jmo
 

VNeil

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Not to beat a horse to death, but a friend of mine had a heart attack a couple of weeks ago. They gave him an option to quit smoking or died...Having said that, there was a therapist that came in to talk to him about quitting cigs. Patches, gum etc. was suggested. He asked about vaping and he was told as long as he kept the nicotine levels down or nothing, that too would be a viable option.

I know what it's done for me,and have no guilt over making the switch...

I would have had to ask the therapist why it was ok to load up in nic with patches or gum, but not with vape???????????
 

stevegmu

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Harm and risk reduction vs. smoking. I do think non smokers who take up vaping are fools, but that's up to them. None of the ingredients in e-liquid were made to be inhaled repeatedly throughout the day. No one knows the long term risks, as vaping hasn't been around very long. I know some will say they have been vaping a year and haven't had any ill effects, but what about in 10 years? Half the people on this forum alone seem to think they are allergic to PG and whenever anyone says they are having health issues related to vaping, PG is the cause or it is a result of quitting smoking. Clearly some people should not be vaping...
 

zoiDman

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In this thread, given what OP has conveyed, it applies 100%. Outside of this thread, who knows? IMO, outside of this thread, I think vapers are allowing a whole lot of teeny tiny 'safety issues' to lead them on a path that equates to vaper's guilt. I believe some vapers are self determining that vapor is rather harmful (according to their reasoning) and advocating for things that feeds right into what FDA was going for, or likely will continue to go for.

Fast forward to a time where plausible majority of vapers are convinced that vapor contains some very harmful stuff, and they feel guilty about doing it (knowing they are harming themselves). Around this time, assuming the previous sentence holds true, I imagine that regardless of what science says, that these same vapers will be convinced that no one should ever vape around anyone else, in any situation, other than outdoors, because the belief will be that it is harming other people. Thus the vaper's guilt meme will be firmly established.

That we already see some of this in today's vape world is not very promising. That the overly concerned crowd does receive flak from within the vaping community, pleases me. Especially considering their use of science is routinely based on junk.

OK. If that is what you Think.

But the Overwhelming thing that I see People Posting is that Vaping may Not Be Completely "Safe". But that it is Dramatically "Safer" than Smoking Cigarettes.

A View that I also Share.

And a View that does Not Include any Guilt.
 

Jman8

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In my experience of vaping for 3 years (while being a smoker mind you), I have experienced 1 cold. Just one.

If we go with long term, I'll be glad to report how many colds I experience over 10 years. At current pace, it'll be around 3. Prior to vaping, I cannot recall a year where I didn't experience at least 2 colds and likely averaged 3 a year. This includes when I was heavy smoker and when I went cold turkey.

Can anyone name any substance on the planet that has zero longterm effects?
 

VNeil

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If you repeat a lie over and over, endlessly, almost everyone will believe you. Only those with the courage of their convictions will fight it. And that is why so many vapers believe "it must be bad for you" or "we don't know enough about it", despite the fact that we probably know more about the safety of vaping than most other products we are exposed to.
 

Jman8

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OK. If that is what you Think.

But the Overwhelming thing that I see People Posting is that Vaping may Not Be Completely "Safe". But that it is Dramatically "Safer" than Smoking Cigarettes.

A View that I also Share.

And a View that does Not Include any Guilt.

I can show you threads on ECF where people are saying other things. Ones I've seen you participate on.

Constantly comparing eCig saftey to smoking safety, doesn't really answer a whole lot, and instead just reminds anyone paying attention that these people likely engaged in some form of smoker's guilt. I know I have (many many years ago).

Let the likes of Dr. F. do what he does and while people may always be able to say, "it's not as bad as smoking," I think some will change their tune from, "this saved my life" to something along lines of, "this is hurting me and others who I do it around. I really have to stop."
 

CMD-Ky

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One may believe that there is no risk when using a vaporizer or one may believe that it must be bad. Belief and knowledge are not the same. I believe that sing the vaporizer reduces my risks of disease and deterioration - but I don't know this to be true; I may hope it to be true and want desperately for it to be true. But I don't know it to be true. Great intellects may write on either side of the issue, I trust neither completely because I lack the essential underlying knowledge to judge the validity and reliability of their studies.
So, I make reasoned judgements in the morass of knowledge or lack thereof but my judgements are not knowledge, simply reasoned opinion. To the psychologists found here on the ECF, this may be a manifestation of my "smoker's guilt". Who cares? The diagnosis of "smoker's guilt" is merely another moderately informed opinion of neither consequence nor influence. To dispute this diagnosis is not a productive endeavor, the opinion of guilt has been formed and once formed has become unshakable.
 

VNeil

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Harm and risk reduction vs. smoking. I do think non smokers who take up vaping are fools, but that's up to them. None of the ingredients in e-liquid were made to be inhaled repeatedly throughout the day. No one knows the long term risks, as vaping hasn't been around very long. I know some will say they have been vaping a year and haven't had any ill effects, but what about in 10 years? Half the people on this forum alone seem to think they are allergic to PG and whenever anyone says they are having health issues related to vaping, PG is the cause or it is a result of quitting smoking. Clearly some people should not be vaping...

If nonsmokers who take up vaping are fools, what does that make the millions of teenagers that take up smoking every year? My point is that the politics of vaping has become so distorted that it might seem that a nonsmoker is better off taking up smoking than vaping!

Half the peeps here are allergic to PG? It's that sort of hyperbole that makes these discussions so difficult (and perhaps even pointless), even among vapers. I suspect the number is more like 1% who are allergic. We just never hear from the other 99% reporting everything is fine.
 

stevegmu

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If nonsmokers who take up vaping are fools, what does that make the millions of teenagers that take up smoking every year? My point is that the politics of vaping has become so distorted that it might seem that a nonsmoker is better off taking up smoking than vaping!

Half the peeps here are allergic to PG? It's that sort of hyperbole that makes these discussions so difficult (and perhaps even pointless), even among vapers. I suspect the number is more like 1% who are allergic. We just never hear from the other 99% reporting everything is fine.

Teens who take up smoking are also fools, as was I back in the day...

That's how it seems if you read through enough posts...I didn't say they actually are allergic. I think most if it is all in their heads...
 
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