The Womper Woom, Womp it again Sam.

[Atchafalaya]

mamma........so I needed a name that was similar.

Did the same thing with my back yard dog. He was so boney when I caught him, now his name is Barney.
Ok trying to keep this vape related. Filling tanks...........tootles. Pun intended. hehehehehe

 

[USMCotaku]

Thanks for bringing the discussion up. Very interesting indeed. Tell Lannie hi.

I named my black hose Black Mamba. lol. It was super long to reach all the way to the back pasture, very heavy duty, bad to the bone. Also, I just love the Kill Bill movies and Black Mamba was Uma's assassin name.
Well, back to filling tanks. Chowsers!

Wait........what?!?!? A movie reference that you know?!?!? [emoji38]

Sent from my LGMS631 using Tapatalk

 

[Boden]

Well there's subohm, and then the "really" subohm 0.2-3 ohm double helix cross stapled four in one hand tie coils that vaporize 2 ml in a single breath.



But a 1.2 ohm coil at 130W will simply burst into flame, while the 0.2 ohm coil will barely notice your light tap on the shoulder. So you can, but it doesn't mean you can vape them. Hypothetically.

I've run the second coil in this at 170W



Actually those stapled fused gargoyle helix coils suck at vaporizing juice. They are really good at making a lot of hot air though.

 

[TrollDragon]

But a 1.2 ohm coil at 130W will simply burst into flame, while the 0.2 ohm coil will barely notice your light tap on the shoulder. So you can, but it doesn't mean you can vape them. Hypothetically.

A 7/6 wrap of 30g Ni200 at 9W will give you a heatflux of 212, which is a perfectly acceptable, warm tootle puffin' vape.

 

[Sir Kadly]

OK, as promised to Fuzzy, I am ready to perform some vape time scienceing based on different builds that I currently am using. Obviously what I do is just that, what I do.

Also, it has occurred to me that simply by attempting to observe my own behavior I am introducing bias into the experiment. Any advice on how to deal with said bias would be appreciated. Initial results will be in my next post, due to needing to do a little mathing on a couple of the trials. Results will be given based on the following purely arbitrary method of taking 3 hits and timing each with my stopwatch from start to end of "suck" which is slightly longer than the actual time I'm firing generally.

 

[Boden]

OK, as promised to Fuzzy, I am ready to perform some vape time scienceing based on different builds that I currently am using. Obviously what I do is just that, what I do.

Also, it has occurred to me that simply by attempting to observe my own behavior I am introducing bias into the experiment. Any advice on how to deal with said bias would be appreciated. Initial results will be in my next post, due to needing to do a little mathing on a couple of the trials. Results will be given based on the following purely arbitrary method of taking 3 hits and timing each with my stopwatch from start to end of "suck" which is slightly longer than the actual time I'm firing generally.

Video tape yourself then time it later.

 

[Sir Kadly]

# 1 - Nautilus Mini, 1.90ohm (measured with my CF4 in case anyone cares), on a Provari, so a little mathing is in order. Vaping it at 4.0v so 8.42W,
7.84
7.62
7.47

#2 - Boreas - Dual 26 AWG Kanthal Coils .50ohm 55W
5.98
5.54
5.39

#3 - SS316L Notch Coil .23ohm 425F
6.77
7.53
6.60

#4 - Triton with Ceramic Coil .77ohm 35W
7.03
7.84
7.67

#5 - Unnamed Coppervape bf RDA, also Dual 26 AWG Kanthal, .51ohm. Mathing again since it is on a mech, this time I put a fully charged battery in the squonker to guarantee 4.2v, so 34.59W (see Boreas above, same resistance, same wire, different wattage)
6.38
7.56
8.07

Note: the last one by far produces the most vapor.

 

[Lannie]

Yes

Maybe that's why mine didn't leak then. The tank was full when it was the hottest part of the day. Or maybe I just got lucky.

My Merlins don't seem to care

Random Tapatalk Post

My iSubs don't care, either, or the Serpents. I use those the most, besides the Boreas, so those are the only ones I've been using in the hot weather, but I've had zero leaking from any of them yet. (Now you watch... I've jinxed myself.)

Tell Lannie hi.

Hi, sweetie! I was cheesing all afternoon, and trying to make my new Limitless work. There were no instructions included, and of course, I tried to make it work BEFORE I went looking for a YouTube video. Suffice to say, I missed an important step in the disassembly, and had a mess of juice all over my hand, the tank, the mod, and the kitchen table. Mistake will now be corrected.

 

[Lannie]

# 1 - Nautilus Mini, 1.90ohm (measured with my CF4 in case anyone cares), on a Provari, so a little mathing is in order. Vaping it at 4.0v so 8.42W,
7.84
7.62
7.47

#2 - Boreas - Dual 26 AWG Kanthal Coils .50ohm 55W
5.98
5.54
5.39

#3 - SS316L Notch Coil .23ohm 425F
6.77
7.53
6.60

#4 - Triton with Ceramic Coil .77ohm 35W
7.03
7.84
7.67

#5 - Unnamed Coppervape bf RDA, also Dual 26 AWG Kanthal, .51ohm. Mathing again since it is on a mech, this time I put a fully charged battery in the squonker to guarantee 4.2v, so 34.59W (see Boreas above, same resistance, same wire, different wattage)
6.38
7.56
8.07

Note: the last one by far produces the most vapor.

Holy cow, Kad, you've got more hair on your chest than I do! The best I can do at .5 ohms with the Boreas at 65 watts (slightly higher than yours but not by much), is two seconds! More than that and it scorches my throat! LOL!

 

[Sir Kadly]

Video tape yourself then time it later.

Good idea, I will do that when I try a more formal version of the experiment. Even though I intentionally did not look at the stopwatch, I did find myself counting, which I don't normally do obviously. I don't know if I can prevent myself from doing that, so I don't think I can remove all of the experimental bias.

Hmmm, perhaps for a more formal method, I select one piece of gear and tape myself while gaming or such, for a period of time. Then discard all times I see myself vaping early in the video when I will be more aware, and only time myself after, say the first 10 or 15 minutes.

 

[Fuzzy Thunderbear]

6.38
7.56
8.07

What is your guesstimate, Sir Kadly, about how much of the total suck time was with the fire button held down? 50:50? I gotta turn this into a graph and see the differences...

 

[Boden]

Holy cow, Kad, you've got more hair on your chest than I do! The best I can do at .5 ohms with the Boreas at 65 watts (slightly higher than yours but not by much), is two seconds! More than that and it scorches my throat! LOL!

He could be running a cooler coil than what you have. Or pulling much more air.

 

[Boden]

What is your guesstimate, Sir Kadly, about how much of the total suck time was with the fire button held down? 50:50? I gotta turn this into a graph and see the differences...

Can I play? What do I have to do?

 

[Fuzzy Thunderbear]

I think you are looking for a formula where none can be applied. It's a try it and see situation.

This is probably more for Atcha than a reply to The Boden, because the quote clearly defines part of my personality quirks. Most of my professional career was spent trying to get programmers to build their menus in a simple and logical manner so that the users, who rarely were college educated, could understand and follow in an intuitive manner. Because I also managed the circuit board design department, I asked them to try to get the hardware engineers to route their boards in such a manner that the technicians were not having to jump all over Hell's Half Acre trying to find the test points... Do you see where I am going with this? It is in my nature to seek that which those of higher learning or higher experience levels, who almost ALWAYS take some portion of their tasks for granted, to come down to the common person's level and explain whatever is possible in such a manner that anyone can grasp the basic concepts. And if I can find a simple formula for that, like E=IR or P=IE, then the derivatives of those (e.g., P=E^2/R) will become obvious and life will become simpler for all the common people (though my nagging makes life tougher for those on high who took it all for granted and now have to explain themselves).

 

[Sir Kadly]

Holy cow, Kad, you've got more hair on your chest than I do! The best I can do at .5 ohms with the Boreas at 65 watts (slightly higher than yours but not by much), is two seconds! More than that and it scorches my throat! LOL!

I'll admit, the Boreas trials probably had the most experimental bias of any of them. I "knew" going into this that my times were fairly similar regardless of wattage, build, airflow, etc. On the Boreas trials I was done before I was halfway through the "8 count" pattern that in my mind was correct, but I pushed myself longer anyway. I knew I did it, so those results are the least accurate. So despite being shorter than every other trial, they should have been even shorter.

 

[Sir Kadly]

What is your guesstimate, Sir Kadly, about how much of the total suck time was with the fire button held down? 50:50? I gotta turn this into a graph and see the differences...

Not even close, typically maybe a second or slightly more after I let off the fire button.

 

[Eskie]

I've run the second coil in this at 170W



Actually those stapled fused gargoyle helix coils suck at vaporizing juice. They are really good at making a lot of hot air though.

Now you impressed me with that teeny 0.2 ohm coil making smoke at low wattage. I'm calling foul on the 1.2 ohm setup. There was more metal in that 1.2 ohm dual setup than used to cover the entire Chrysler building. You could have made braces for an entire 3rd grade class with all that wire. Of course 75W barely got it going. And I can believe that could run at 170W, although I would prefer to witness that in video rather than up close in person. I startle easily.

In the interest of science, I just might have to mount a 1.6 ohm coil, wait.....I got it, a 1.6 ohm Nautilus coil and juice it at 130W. Unfortunately, my insurance policy probably has some rider that acts of daring stunt vaping are not covered, so I'll have to give it a shot tomorrow on an isolated rocky area in the back on a flame ......ant mat, with the fire department hanging out in the driveway. If I make a barbecue the guys won't mind watching me light things up.

 

[Sir Kadly]

This is probably more for Atcha than a reply to The Boden, because the quote clearly defines part of my personality quirks. Most of my professional career was spent trying to get programmers to build their menus in a simple and logical manner so that the users, who rarely were college educated, could understand and follow in an intuitive manner. Because I also managed the circuit board design department, I asked them to try to get the hardware engineers to route their boards in such a manner that the technicians were not having to jump all over Hell's Half Acre trying to find the test points... Do you see where I am going with this? It is in my nature to seek that which those of higher learning or higher experience levels, who almost ALWAYS take some portion of their tasks for granted, to come down to the common person's level and explain whatever is possible in such a manner that anyone can grasp the basic concepts. And if I can find a simple formula for that, like E=IR or P=IE, then the derivatives of those (e.g., P=E^2/R) will become obvious and life will become simpler for all the common people (though my nagging makes life tougher for those on high who took it all for granted and now have to explain themselves).

My guess, which is simply that at this point, is that a formula may indeed be possible, but it would not be a simple formula. It would involve numerous variables, some of which are very difficult to assign values to. For example, the volume of air being moved past the coil per second would play a role, the volume of vapor produced per second as well. Then you have variables related to the heat flux of the coil, and possibly even coil efficiency coming into play. I'm not sure I could even begin to put together a proper list of all the variables that would need to be part of said formula.
So while I technically disagree with Boden, because I think a formula could be arrived at, I don't completely disagree with him because I don't think it would be practical to define it, or once defined to measure some of the things that need measured. You can't leave all those variables undefined after all.

 

[Eskie]

This is probably more for Atcha than a reply to The Boden, because the quote clearly defines part of my personality quirks. Most of my professional career was spent trying to get programmers to build their menus in a simple and logical manner so that the users, who rarely were college educated, could understand and follow in an intuitive manner.

It's obvious you didn't work at Microsoft. Nor did you ever work on a single software package I've ever bought and really believed the line, "Honest, employee training will take 3 hours max!". Only time I ever came close was by sitting and coaching a bunch of MS consulting people to set up a custom CRM solution with an MS Dynamics front end, integrating voice and data management all to the back end SQL database. And by close, I mean training still wasn't 3 hours, but 3 days was still better than prior experience.

I also realized being overly involved meant it was super intuitive to me, but sometimes a real head scratcher for others. Glad I don't do that kind of stuff anymore. Probably went up to 2 packs a day to deal with that aggravation of that fiasco bright idea.

 

[Boden]

This is probably more for Atcha than a reply to The Boden, because the quote clearly defines part of my personality quirks. Most of my professional career was spent trying to get programmers to build their menus in a simple and logical manner so that the users, who rarely were college educated, could understand and follow in an intuitive manner. Because I also managed the circuit board design department, I asked them to try to get the hardware engineers to route their boards in such a manner that the technicians were not having to jump all over Hell's Half Acre trying to find the test points... Do you see where I am going with this? It is in my nature to seek that which those of higher learning or higher experience levels, who almost ALWAYS take some portion of their tasks for granted, to come down to the common person's level and explain whatever is possible in such a manner that anyone can grasp the basic concepts. And if I can find a simple formula for that, like E=IR or P=IE, then the derivatives of those (e.g., P=E^2/R) will become obvious and life will become simpler for all the common people (though my nagging makes life tougher for those on high who took it all for granted and now have to explain themselves).

Like you I seek to simplify. You could simply say double the wattage, half the nic. But that would be very very crude. I just tell people to listen to your body. It'll tell you what you need to know.

Now you impressed me with that teeny 0.2 ohm coil making smoke at low wattage. I'm calling foul on the 1.2 ohm setup. There was more metal in that 1.2 ohm dual setup than used to cover the entire Chrysler building. You could have made braces for an entire 3rd grade class with all that wire. Of course 75W barely got it going. And I can believe that could run at 170W, although I would prefer to witness that in video rather than up close in person. I startle easily.

In the interest of science, I just might have to mount a 1.6 ohm coil, wait.....I got it, a 1.6 ohm Nautilus coil and juice it at 130W. Unfortunately, my insurance policy probably has some rider that acts of daring stunt vaping are not covered, so I'll have to give it a shot tomorrow on an isolated rocky area in the back on a flame ......ant mat, with the fire department hanging out in the driveway. If I make a barbecue the guys won't mind watching me light things up.

That made me laugh

It was a dual coil triple parallel 30g, to be specific. That's two 1.46ohm 4mmID X 8.5mm wide contact coils. It may have a lot of surface area but it's only 0.25mm thick.

My point was simple when someone says they are running a 26ga 0.5 ohm coil at 50W, for example. They really haven't said anything useful at all.

Same is true with those huge art coils. It may look fancy and be 0.01 ohm but it has so much mass and so much surface area away from the wick it's basically useless. Well, unless they like sucking on hair driers.