They really screw ya if you don't DIY juice.

[Txrider]

I ran a sole proprietorship as a sub contractor and it was a lot of paper work and stuff at first that I didn't expect but it becomes second nature and I did a great job and rarely made errors. It just didn't work out because the company I subbed for screwed the hell out of everyone and was only in for short-term and moved back across the country..

Every industry's different. E cig vending or just internet sales for that matter seems fairly simple - buy bulk from alibaba/the manufacturer, upload info and photos to a website you paid someone to make at a highly competitive rate, set up a merchant account and get insurance to register the business to pay tax. Sell things, mail them.
Not a huge amount needed for start up if you know what's selling good, we're not talking bank loans and investors or '...be a millionaire too!".

I'm considering it.

It is the customer service that is the hard part, significant numbers will never be pleased and can make things tough, even after you lose twice as much money on then as they will ever pay you. Some will even go on jihads against you online for no good reason.

My last venture I had over ten thousand paying customers, out of those a hundred or so were total nightmares. Then there is legal issues, as my lawyer told me "You're not a real business until you get sued". For me that happened the very first week from my ex employer who I went into competition with, and I was in some type of suit for the next 15 years. I never lost one, I never even came close and none ever even made it a judgement as all were settled in my favor out of court, but the legal costs were a few million over those 15 years.

I could go on about 7 day workweeks, no vacations for over a decade, all the legal issues around hiring and keeping employees etc. etc. but it's no secret 90+ % of businesses fail within the first two years and there are a lot of reasons why.

Not saying don't go do it, I certainly did, but don't go thinking it's going to be easy.

 

[skoot]

I run an e-commerce site that does almost a million a year. AMA.

I don't own the company so it's a regular job but I love doing it. Yeah, it basically is as easy as signing up for a $25/month e-commerce site. You are actually putting your logo and products onto a pre-built template that is run on their servers. You're renting it, basically. Many of them also offer credit card processing as an add-on and charge a percentage of each transaction. Pricing is very competitive with both of these services, and you have to plan on doing a trial with around 5 different vendors to find one that works for you.

OK, so you launch your site. Spend another weekend learning how to manage Google ads and pony up something like $200/month for keywords. This is where you have to have something that helps you stand out. In this industry it's going to be extremely expensive to bid for keywords as the demand is so high and the distinction between vendors so small.

UNTIL you get into customer service. Now you're dealing with all sorts of stuff. You're going to take a hit on postage if you want to compete. "Free Shipping" ain't offered by the post office, you have to pay for it and include it in your margins.

Then there's marketing. It takes 10X as much in marketing dollars to get a new customer as to keep an old one. This is a delicate balance and you have to do what it takes to keep them. Swallow the pride, they are always right.

All that said, it's astounding to be able to run a business this size from a desktop computer. I could do a lot of it on my phone, actually. It's fun, it's always changing and there's always something new to learn. Evolve or die. It's not for everyone. I'm fortunate to get to have all the fun without the risk, and I love the company I work for.

I'm glad to PM if anyone wants to talk more. (Not trolling for business!)

 

[EricDykstra]

Love the drama......I enjoyed getting screwed. Obviously Frank has a lot of time on his hands, hey DIY away.

 

[johni]

I own and operate a small business. While some have the skill set to DIY, most of my clients have neither the time nor the inclination and find my results to be superior. I charge a fair price that affords me a profit yet stay booked months in advance. My investment of time and equipment far exceeds what most people would estimate.

I respect and admire most of the small entrepreneurs that market ejuice! Most tend to be very customer driven, courteous, and ingenious.

 

[Rocketpunk]

I like MBV Butterscotch, I like Vaporcast's Sinnabun, Biscotti, Virginia Blend, and Turkish Blend. I like Boba's Bounty. I like everything I've tried from HHV. Could I make them doing DIY? No. Could I try? Yes. Would I succeed? No.

I'm willing to pay those extra bucks to support vendors and get juice I know I will love. No one is screwing me.

 

[serenity21899]

I just wanted to say that I'm pleased we are now referring to it as "the darkhood method" xD

I felt it needed a name.

 

[frankfennel]

Well aparently I'm the minority and rather pay like $5 less per 30ml and mess with mixing etc. $20 for a 30's just too much IMHO though. Vape on.

 

[Rocketpunk]

I'm not entirely sure you're getting the point.

We understand DIY will save us money.

We pay the extra nickle for the juices we enjoy from other vendors. I will never be able to replicate my favorite vendors' juices because I'll never know their recipes. I could try, but I know right now I'd fail miserably, and the trial and effort to get a product even MILDLY resembling juices I already love would cost more than just ordering the juices themselves.

No need to keep coming back to us with numbers. We get it. DIY is cheaper. But we want certain vendors' juices so we will pay the extra buck.

There really isn't an argument here.

 

[gthompson]

I won't pay $20/30ml either. You can buy quality juice much cheaper than that. The truth is, I'd spend all that time DIYing (time that is precious to me) to save $25-$30 over what I spend a month now. It's just not worth it to me. If you're having trouble vaping and paying the rent, I can see your point (though I wonder how you managed to buy cigarettes).

 

[eratikmind]

I just screwed again, as I placed another order with MBV for more juice.

 

[Rocketpunk]

Same here. Screwed myself by dropping $46 at HHV two nights ago.

Rocket: Oh yeah, take it, Rocket!

Rocket: I can take more!

 

[aikanae1]

I was all excited about trying to diy. I filled up a cart with flavors and juices, readied mixing supplies and it easily topped $100+ I was still missing important flavors. I also realized my online favorites were developed by chefs / people trained in combining flavors that I don't have. I may get lucky mixing something I want to vape all day, and I may not. It feels like a crap shoot. Your calculations don't include the waste from DIY failures.

One of the things that has helped me stay off cigarettes has been getting away from tobacco taste and discovering flavor again. I'm still comparing what I'm spending now to what I used to spend so it's not as big as a hit.

There really is a lot of other things I'd rather put my time into than mixing ejuices.

 

[McGarnagle]

I now do both. There are some really good flavorings out there, and I actually like some of them over many of the bakery and fruit vapes at vendors. Yet I also prefer many of the NET's and some other unique flavors from vendors. If you want to save money, then yes, 100% DIY is great. Yet if people also want the best overall vaping combos, they should also look at DIY for some really nice stuff that IMO is better than you will find at any vendor. The reduced cost is also a bonus, plus I find some of the PG/VG bases I can get from DIY vendors more enjoyable (tough to quantify, but I do enjoy the vapor and feel of some of the DIY bases vs. already made juices).

 

[NamVet68]

Though I DIY a majority of my juices, there are some I just have never been able to duplicate. Boba's & Gorilla Juice being two of them...
I've been trying to get screwed by Alien Visions for days now (almost out again).... no joy.

 

[DaveP]

I remember my dad commenting on the first hamburger joint that opened up in our town. "Why would anyone buy a hamburger from one of those places? You can make those at home a lot cheaper". He didn't get it.

If you are a fan of Dekang juices, they sell for $10.99 in a 50ml bottle. I've become a fan.

Anything that sells in a storefront involves lots of startup costs. Employees, rent, utilities, fixtures, insurance, licenses, taxes, inventory, tools and packaging, advertising, and of course profit. With concentrated nicotine involved in juice manufacture, you have to have HAZMAT protection for your employees and proper liability insurance in case they do something dumb and inhale the vapors.

There are lots of low cost businesses with small investments. There's a guy at the local flea market who takes your picture against a backdrop with a mid range digital camera on a tripod, prints it on high quality 8x10 glossy paper, and sells it to you in a folder for $8. If you want wallet size, he can do that, too. He uses waterproof inks in the inkjet printer and has some pictures submerged in a fish bowl to prove it's waterproof. He's constantly busy taking family photos and pictures of kids. It's a cheap business with low liability and decent profit. He has people waiting to be next pretty much all the time.

 

[Mud Pie]

"screwed" ?? Nah.

I buy prefilled cartos because I have no desire to turn my kitchen into a science experiment. I have no desire to have several tupperware containers filled with all the necessary gizmos and whatnots to mix my own. I have no desire to create that which has not been created. The thought of creating a "Steak Medium Rare with Loaded Baked Potato" or some such e-liquid does not intrigue me. I have no desire to lay out all the necessary doo-dads and begin mixing, with a diabolical laugh and lightning flashing in the background.

My cartos get low, pop it off, toss it in the trash, screw on another. Done. Couldn't get easier. Getting more involves nothing more than a few mouse clicks and a walk to the mailbox. To me, you're screwed if you MAKE your own juice !! I have better things to do.

I have a decent paying job and I can find a bunch of ways to trim my budget, but mixing my own liquid goes waaay beyond economical. My time is worth more.

Sure, I could also save money by making my own toilet paper by recycling my used paper towels, but that ain't likely to happen either.

 

[YoTone]

i find that pre filled cartos get pretty annoying after a while. always keeping spares in your pocket and such. you should look into a decent carto tank. a fresh carto and a filled tank can last me almost 4 days with out refilling it.

"screwed" ?? Nah.

I buy prefilled cartos because I have no desire to turn my kitchen into a science experiment. I have no desire to have several tupperware containers filled with all the necessary gizmos and whatnots to mix my own. I have no desire to create that which has not been created. The thought of creating a "Steak Medium Rare with Loaded Baked Potato" or some such e-liquid does not intrigue me. I have no desire to lay out all the necessary doo-dads and begin mixing, with a diabolical laugh and lightning flashing in the background.

My cartos get low, pop it off, toss it in the trash, screw on another. Done. Couldn't get easier. Getting more involves nothing more than a few mouse clicks and a walk to the mailbox. To me, you're screwed if you MAKE your own juice !! I have better things to do.

I have a decent paying job and I can find a bunch of ways to trim my budget, but mixing my own liquid goes waaay beyond economical. My time is worth more.

Sure, I could also save money by making my own toilet paper by recycling my used paper towels, but that ain't likely to happen either.

 

[DaveP]

I keep a box full of Lorann's flavors around for the times when I get bland juices that need some kick. If I get some juice that has no flavor, I will put a drop of English Toffee or Vanila Butternut or Key Lime into a Vivi tank and fill it up with a no taste juice. I've salvaged some pretty nothing juices into a flavor extravaganza by doing that.

You just have to experiment and figure out how much to add. I generally just syringe up what it takes to fill the needle on a syringe without any showing up in the tube and go from there. No rocket science involved.

 

[Mr.Mann]

Qick general calculation found making 12mg 30ml bottles with organic flavors would cost about $4 and that's not even using bulk gallons of base to save more.

Vendors sell 30mls for like $15 plus shipping.

Pretty sure you can also legally grow some tobacco in most places, soak the leaves in base, have to be fresh leaves, can't just soak dried tobacco, but that still might work, and be very careful if you use nicotine base, it's no joke, can kill a person with just a sip or too much soaked into hands or skin. Boil it down, get a nicotine tester and make your own nicotine base for cheap (although DIY nic base is pretty cheap and easy).

Better to store in glass bottles almost no juice vendor offers. glass bottles with poly cone lids are only like $5 for 10.

This should not come as a surprise. First of all, this is not "screwing you" as much as it is providing you with a convenience/service. A medium coffee from Tim Hortons costs me about $1.50 for 10 oz, but I can buy a bag of Tim Hortons coffee grinds from the same dadgum window and get over 220 oz for a just under 7 bucks (and that could still be considered expensive). Since I don't DIY, I save all my money by not buying garbage food and making just about as much as I can when in the kitchen. Cost savings can be found in many areas of life and splurges follow similar patterns. It all depends on where you want to save and where you don't have to. 9 out of 10 juices that I buy are not any juice that is DIYable anyway--I dare anyone to try, though many have and are blowing up the DIY section with attempt after attempt; in essence wasting time, which, where I'm from is the same as money, and wasting money, which where I'm from is the same as money. LOL. I do agree, however, that some vendors are merely DIYers on a large scale and when dealing with them, maybe folk are getting screwed?! I guess the take away is to not buy juice that is simple mix and shake, or to buy juice that is made all in-house with no Perfumer's Apprentice, Flavour Art, LorAnn's etc. Even though, some juice manufacturers that still use those flavorings do it in such a way that it just cannot be reproduced. Has anyone ever cracked the BWB RY4 code? NOPE! Not even close. (BWB RY4 was not simple flavorings, though!)

p.s. How much does a "large fry" cost at any restaurant or fast food chain? How much does a sack of potatoes cost? Now that is getting screwed if buying the large fry! Plus, making french fries is infinitely more simple, and less dangerous, than DIYing nicotine juice. Save where you can!

 

[EricDykstra]

"screwed" ?? Nah.

I buy prefilled cartos because I have no desire to turn my kitchen into a science experiment. I have no desire to have several tupperware containers filled with all the necessary gizmos and whatnots to mix my own. I have no desire to create that which has not been created. The thought of creating a "Steak Medium Rare with Loaded Baked Potato" or some such e-liquid does not intrigue me. I have no desire to lay out all the necessary doo-dads and begin mixing, with a diabolical laugh and lightning flashing in the background.

My cartos get low, pop it off, toss it in the trash, screw on another. Done. Couldn't get easier. Getting more involves nothing more than a few mouse clicks and a walk to the mailbox. To me, you're screwed if you MAKE your own juice !! I have better things to do.

I have a decent paying job and I can find a bunch of ways to trim my budget, but mixing my own liquid goes waaay beyond economical. My time is worth more.

Sure, I could also save money by making my own toilet paper by recycling my used paper towels, but that ain't likely to happen either.

Recycling your used paper towels, your getting screwed! You should be planting trees,cutting them down and making toilet paper.