This pisses me off!!

[wv2win]

I'm attacking you?.. ok.... I find it hard to twist words that are obviously stated in a forum. I can misunderstand them, and you can misunderstand my demeanor and vice versa, but I'm not twisting anyone's words.

I made the "all about you" statement because you had said that "Personally, I believe they know full well....", I'm not so quick to judge... maybe they don't, how would you know.

The very first post I read of yours was...



I feel you're too quick to jump on them (my Opinion, not right or wrong), which I'm expressing here, which you obviously don't like, so now I'm the enemy.



Personally, I think that's a bit of a leap.



Including myself, nowhere did I disagree with your position, just how you go about rectifying it. We're all supposed to be in the same community here. I would say let's focus on those outside of it that are trying to regulate and actually do damage to it.



No, you didn't say black-ball them (reference here?....), but like their advertising implies danger, you're call to action to inform other ECF members... to create more threads... etc... implies such action. I felt that was going to far, which is only my opinion and in no way impedes you doing such if you feel that is necessary.



In my whole post, it was barely the first line and the sig quote that referenced you at all. I apologize if you feel that I'm being condescending towards you.

It's the big picture I'm trying to discuss here. Your the only one here that has mad it personal and attacking in nature. I obviously made a mistake by saying it's all about you, how it can and obviously was read is not how I intended it to be read.

If you choose to read posts in a condescending manner, they will come across in that way. That say's more about you than me. If you choose to read my posts in a neutral non argumentative manner, I come across a lot nicer.

You are also good "cherry picking" statements and taking them out of context. My statements, viewed in the context of the entire post, encourages others to respectfully contact the supplier and ask them to change there misleading advertising.

You, on the other hand, start out your response to me with "It's all about you", because I expressed a personal opinion that I believe they know their advertising is misleading, not that they are just ignorant as you suggest. But even believing that is most likely the case, I recommended a respectful approach to dealing with them. If "It was all about me", that is not the direction I would have taken. You appear to be intelligent enough to know that, but instead, you prefer to take the condescending approach.

And I find it highly disingenuous, your suggestion, now, that I simply misinterpreted your comment that "It is all about me". Sorry, but that BS just doesn't float. And I did not "make this personal" between you and I or anyone else in this thread with the recommendations I made about contacting the vendor to ask them to change how they advertized. You first made this personal with your response to my post by starting out with "It's all about you". So don't insinuate I made this personal when you directed that comment right at me.

You also state you have a problem with how "I go about rectifying" a problem with how this vendor advertises. My recommendation, right now, is to contact the vendor respectfully and ask them to remove the "scare" tactic comment from their web site. What part of that action to take now, do you have a problem with? And what action have you suggested? None, that I can tell. That translate to me into "do nothing".

I read your post exactly as it was intended towards me, which your initial statement makes quite clear. I find your response now just disingenuous.

 

[wv2win]

Since most of us do not live in that locale, a polite non-threatening informative (educational?) email campaign is first logical 'step' (not leap) we have available. No pitchforks in that!

Give the vendor a chance to read, heed and amend their site. A week should be adequate.

If they don't retract the comment, game on! Why should anyone on the ECF $upport such a vendor and not warn others?


BTW, I no longer parse anyone's posts anymore. I just watch for their 'trends'.

Well stated. I agree completely.

 

[WidowsSon]

Also, for those interested, (I'm not interested in running around to prove anything to you, but I did make a statement, so here's a starting point for those interested in their own research).

I'm looking into it because I'd like to get my hands on it for my own DIY... here is the DOW product/PG used in pharma grade stuff.

OPTIM - The OPTIM Advantage | The Dow Chemical Company

People who are PG sensitive will find this doesn't irritate them.

Another interesting article:
Dow Shifts OPTIM™ Synthetic Glycerine into Propylene Glycol Business Portfolio - News - SpecialChem 4 Cosmetics


Again... no FUD here, just saying.. if we're going to vape, why not vape the safest stuff possible.

 

[potholerepairman]

The ecf works in many ways, this issue is tops for many now.Choices are now made with good input( always satisfying to see the low in the gutter)wish this would have worked for me before I bought my last dishwasher(my fault 100%).

 

[Fulgurant]

I'm gonna have to ask you for a source for that.

BSE is a disease, TSE is a category of diseases.

This is a bit like me claiming that Mars bars have housemaid's knee as an ingredient.

LOL

/tenchar

 

[wv2win]

Oh my goodness gracious! The great crusader for making vaping safer!
By excusing misleading advertising by some shop who accuses the competition of selling poison.
By accusing more experienced vapers of "accepting it blindly".
But now - behold - HE is here. To save us all!

Excuse me while I go laugh my head off.

I do not know the real motives of the "great crusader" yet. So far. It may be interesting to find out .....

edit:


To my mind, there is nothing confusing about your posts. I have seen such things before. Many times.

/edit 2:
Congrats on 5 weeks! Nice going!
I have been vaping for a little over 2 years now. And there is little that I have not read about my nice hobby.
Excusing false advertising and trying to spread uncertainty and doubt, however, is not how I went about it.
Such things are generally not well received by those who DO know.

I was going to respond to his post, but there is no way I can top this!! You're the best.

 

[Anjaffm]

Oh.. to those who are so afraid because any "chemical" just MUST be harmful:
Yeah, chemicals are terrible. Harmful, poisonous.

Would you ever consume this?

Gallic acid
Chlorogenic acid
Caffeic acid
?-Coumaric acid
Ferulic acid
Phloridzin
Epicatechin
Catechin
Procyanidin B1
Procyanidin B2
Quercetin-3-galactoside
Quercetin-3-arabinoside
Quercetin-3-rutinoside
Quercetin-3-rhamnoside

Nawww.. none of that poison for me! Thank you very much! I would much rather eat an apple

 

[AttyPops]

....snip....
Again... no FUD here, just saying.. if we're going to vape, why not vape the safest stuff possible.

Agreed. But...how do we know what that is? We don't. Also, we don't know that PG is bad. In fact, there's more info available for PG inhalation than for VG. PG is more of an irritant though. VG...who knows?

Basically, we don't know. Even getting past the FUD and even the legitimate questions of acrolein and formaldehyde (studies indicate e-cigs are safe...at least at normal temps). But many users report "heavy lung" issues with too much VG.

We just don't know.

And a vendor adding FUD to sell stuff....well...I want to see their studies showing negative effects.

 

[WidowsSon]

Oh my goodness gracious! The great crusader for making vaping safer!
By excusing misleading advertising by some shop who accuses the competition of selling poison.
By accusing more experienced vapers of "accepting it blindly".
But now - behold - HE is here. To save us all!

Excuse me while I go laugh my head off.

I do not know the real motives of the "great crusader" yet. So far. It may be interesting to find out .....

edit:


To my mind, there is nothing confusing about your posts. I have seen such things before. Many times.

/edit 2:
Congrats on 5 weeks! Nice going!
I have been vaping for a little over 2 years now. And there is little that I have not read about my nice hobby.
Excusing false advertising and trying to spread uncertainty and doubt, however, is not how I went about it.
Such things are generally not well received by those who DO know.

I don't even know how to respond to this....

vape on guys/gals, see you elsewhere.

EDIT: right or wrong, condescending or not, disingenuous or not, I don't make things up, and I surely don't put words into peoples mouths or make fun of them.

 

[potholerepairman]

Agreed. But...how do we know what that is? We don't. Also, we don't know that PG is bad. In fact, there's more info available for PG inhalation that for VG. PG is more of an irritant though. VG...who knows?

Basically, we don't know. Even getting past the FUD and even the legitimate questions of acrolein and formaldehyde (studies indicate e-cigs are safe...at least at normal temps). But many users report "heavy lung" issues with too much VG.

We just don't know.

And a vendor adding FUD to sell stuff....well...I want to see their studies showing negative effects.

Wish that too, the magic eight ball imo only has one answer= safer by 1000% either way(pg,vg) for those who use to smoke, vape on!

 

[Jman8]

Now, I'm wondering how fast it'll get changed cause of these emails.

But just to be clear, what is misleading about:

VG(Vegetable Glycerin) E-Juice ... is made from plants, as compaired to PG (Propylene glycol) which is used in automotive antifreezes and de-icers used at airports.

To me, what is misleading is saying one substance is made from this, while the other is used in this.

As one who still chooses to smoke, what would I have to do to get some of you to stop using misleading information regarding logs? Would umpteem PM's to you help? Would the rest of you join me in that campaign?

 

[WillyZee]

I am vaping some Apple Pie I made myself on Friday ... made with this



I had the local drug store order it for me ... is it safe? I hope so ... sure tastes better than cigarettes.

The stuff I was vaping from vendors ... I don't even know what they use to make it

 

[AttyPops]

The "All Natural" thing can be good, but is often misleading. Arsenic is natural. So are "oil spills" (well, small pools of oil in isolated areas).

Nature will kill ya if it can too. Many man-made chemicals save lives.

In general, I like natural over artificial where it makes sense. Look at the recent "trans-fat" stuff. But you can take the claim too far.

 

[WidowsSon]

I am vaping some Apple Pie I made myself on Friday ... made with this

View attachment 271823

I had the local drug store order it for me ... is it safe? I hope so ... sure tastes better than cigarettes.

The stuff I was vaping from vendors ... I don't even know what they use to make it

Nice Willy,

This is what started me into reading about the PG, Just don't trust that vendors take it seriously enough, would rather purchase the best grade possible for myself and know what I'm vaping...

Apparently doing this is ok, as long as you don't share your experience with others on ECF, because then your spreading FUD.

It must be nice to be fearless, completely certain of everything and doubtless, although I thought that was naïve.

 

[Iffy]

... is it safe?

It's USP and GTG! Vape on...

 

[StormFinch]

I am vaping some Apple Pie I made myself on Friday ... made with this

View attachment 271823

I had the local drug store order it for me ... is it safe? I hope so ... sure tastes better than cigarettes.

The stuff I was vaping from vendors ... I don't even know what they use to make it

Willy, "most" vendors, especially on these boards, use USP and sometimes even USP kosher ingredients. (Kosher is a harder cert. to get than USP) These people vape what they sell and provide juice for friends and family. If they want to stay in business they practice the best safety they know how. They also know that we as a community are very watchful when it comes to juices. There have been a very few that have gotten caught doing things they shouldn't have, and word spread like wildfire. When that happens their bottom line falls to sub basement levels and they certainly don't get the privilege of advertising here.

I DIY, but it's because I can make my own juice for pennies a mil. If I had more than enough money I would definitely be lazy and purchase from vendors.

 

[Zealous]

Message sent.

Well this thread has gotten heated. All I will say is this: if anything were to happen to cause PG to be so frowned upon that juice suppliers only made VG juice, I would be screwed. I can not tolerate high quantities of VG as I have bad reactions to too much of this substance. So for me this is especially detrimental to my own ability to continue vaping.

I seriously hope other ejuice producers don't jump on the band wagon with this type of advertising. I don't care about companies that want to promote their juice as 100% VG. I do care that they do it by trying to imply that the alternative is poison & will kill people. In my personal experience I think the VG is significantly worse for me.

 

[TFL!]

Here is there phone number Call: (716) 280-3609.

 

[Anjaffm]

Oh, I am absolutely fearless. So fearless, in fact, that I will now consume a whole glass full of dihydrogen monoxide!
Although I have read this about it:

Death due to accidental inhalation of DHMO, even in small quantities.
Prolonged exposure to solid DHMO causes severe tissue damage.
Excessive ingestion produces a number of unpleasant though not typically life-threatening side-effects.
DHMO is a major component of acid rain.
Gaseous DHMO can cause severe burns.
Contributes to soil erosion.
Leads to corrosion and oxidation of many metals.
Contamination of electrical systems often causes short-circuits.
Exposure decreases effectiveness of automobile brakes
Found in biopsies of pre-cancerous tumors and lesions.
Given to vicious dogs involved in recent deadly attacks

Yum yum! I am just going to drink it down! Or... would such an action be naive?
Should I rather buy from a shop that advertises absolutely dihydrogen monoxide-free drinks, not like the competition that is poisoning us?

this stuff is dangerous!

 

[StormFinch]

Oh, I am absolutely fearless. So fearless, in fact, that I will now consume a whole glass full of dihydrogen monoxide!
Although I have read this about it:



Yum yum! I am just going to drink it down! Or... would such an action be naive?
Should I rather buy from a shop that advertises absolutely dihydrogen monoxide-free drinks, not like the competition that is poisoning us?

this stuff is dangerous!

Darn it Anja, you just made me thirsty.

I was just thinking that anyone worried about juice vendors found on this site would be better off not eating out. They're more likely to have their food stored in dirty conditions or mishandled than get substandard ingredients in their juice.