Titanium wire, vaping and safety
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I've had similar experiences with parallel builds, where it seems like only one of the wires is making connection so the resistance is double what I think it should be.
I think you guys found your answer, but I'm thinking it probably has to do with the Ti loosening under the screw and pulling back, which makes the wraps look like they're contracting.
Anybody try a twisted double 26 gauge Ti build? I'm trying it out and finding that these types of builds are preheat hungry. Maybe it's time for a DNA 200 with that 200 watt preheat!
Anybody try a twisted double 26 gauge Ti build? I'm trying it out and finding that these types of builds are preheat hungry. Maybe it's time for a DNA 200 with that 200 watt preheat!
That's exactly why I am looking at titanium as a possibility because a dual twisted 28 nickel heats up rather quickly for me. What is that reading out in terms of ohms?
That particular build came out to .25 around there. She's angry when she gets to temp. I've noticed that when I try a twisted double 28 gauge nickel that it still takes all the preheat the DNA 40 can throw at it. But nowhere near the hunger of Ti.
Anybody try a twisted double 26 gauge Ti build? I'm trying it out and finding that these types of builds are preheat hungry. Maybe it's time for a DNA 200 with that 200 watt preheat!
I'm running a triple 28g Ti for a week now. Works perfect, never got a dry hit at 34.5 W, 220 C, come out about 0.1ohm. Really nice preheat. Next week I'll give a second chance to a Ti clapton coil.
The information in this thread has changed quite a bit from beginning to end so I am going to ask a few questions that have been answered already, hopefully someone can shed some light on ti for me. I have read through about 30 pages from start to finish but each time i jump forward in the thread it seems to have changed. Hopefully this will serve as a update for people newer to titanium wire.
I ordered some 26 gauge spider silk and it should be here shortly, due to the cost I only ordered 10 feet so I wanna try and get as educated as possible before I start wasting wire. It is clear to me that Ti should not be dry burned, as its flammable. It is also clear that dry burning will result in the release of hazardous of TiO2. It should also not be torched unless you want a chemical fire it seems.
Mod setup : IPV4S with Ti Mode, Multiple Atomizers, .26 gauge Spider Silk Ti
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1 ) What is the best method for coil spacing. It seems there are people using contact coils, and people not using them as well. Theres conflicting accounts all over about if they properly oxidize and how to heat them to stabilize resistance. I don't mind spaced coils, but I would like to know how contact are possible as well and what steps need to be taken to safely build contact coils.
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2 ) Another issue is finding the safe temperature range of Ti, because the temperatures posted in this thread are vastly inaccurate because people using Ni200 mode and posting there adjusted temperature. I am using an updated IPV4, so I don't have to compensate for the ni200 curve. I have the Ti mode so whats the safe operating range. With Ni200 I use between 415F-480F, It seems I should be in the 300's for Ti.
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3 ) What's the cotton burn temp for Ti, with Ni200F its around 415 from what I have seen. I have seen around 375F.
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4 ) Anything else important that should mentioned, Any build tips or things I should know?
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I ordered some 26 gauge spider silk and it should be here shortly, due to the cost I only ordered 10 feet so I wanna try and get as educated as possible before I start wasting wire. It is clear to me that Ti should not be dry burned, as its flammable. It is also clear that dry burning will result in the release of hazardous of TiO2. It should also not be torched unless you want a chemical fire it seems.
Mod setup : IPV4S with Ti Mode, Multiple Atomizers, .26 gauge Spider Silk Ti
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
1 ) What is the best method for coil spacing. It seems there are people using contact coils, and people not using them as well. Theres conflicting accounts all over about if they properly oxidize and how to heat them to stabilize resistance. I don't mind spaced coils, but I would like to know how contact are possible as well and what steps need to be taken to safely build contact coils.
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2 ) Another issue is finding the safe temperature range of Ti, because the temperatures posted in this thread are vastly inaccurate because people using Ni200 mode and posting there adjusted temperature. I am using an updated IPV4, so I don't have to compensate for the ni200 curve. I have the Ti mode so whats the safe operating range. With Ni200 I use between 415F-480F, It seems I should be in the 300's for Ti.
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3 ) What's the cotton burn temp for Ti, with Ni200F its around 415 from what I have seen. I have seen around 375F.
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4 ) Anything else important that should mentioned, Any build tips or things I should know?
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If you want to be safe make spaced coils. It's easier with Ti than Ni and with thicker wires you can make it work with a very small space.
I don't get what you mean by safe temperature range for Ti. If your mod reports the true temperature then the safe temperature range is about the liquid and not the metal. For example, if you're vaping anything with VG you don't want the temperature going anything above 285C.
Cotton burn temperature? Again, it's the same for both metals. I think you've misunderstood what is actually happening here.
I don't mean safe in respect to chemical burn off. I mean safe before your ti starts to flake off white powder or release TiO2 as some reports suggested. At what point does it become dangerous, and what is the range that most people are using. I see people vaping in the 300F range, which would be super low for ni200 as I vape 400-480 in ni200. Is 400-480 normal in Ti
Somewhere in this thread, someone posted that they noticed that cotton burned at 375ish F with ti instead of 415F as ni200 would. I didnt think that made any sense, So thats why I asked just to be safe. It should be the same temp no matter what metal.
This is why I am asking this somewhat simple questions, because the information in this thread is littered with inconsistencies and flat out incorrect info. Some of it due to the rapidly evolving nature of this wires usage and some of it due to people posting the wrong info because there devices dont support Ti but they are posting what they are rigging them with, Its very confusing to me and im sure others but no ones fault really.
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Titanium won't oxide, at least not significantly enough to present a problem, at normal vaping temperatures. That doesn't happen until titanium reaches about 600 or 800C if I remember correctly. Do not heat, pulse, to red hot looking for "hot spots" prior to wicking. That can easily lead to over oxidation of the wire. If you feel the need to do that, do it in a dark room and keep the temperature, color, down to just barely dull red.
Keep in mind the temperatures being referenced quite often here are the result of Ni curves being used with Ti coils. Your cotton burning question still comes back to the same answer, cotton burns at one temperature, no matter which wire is used.
Keep in mind the temperatures being referenced quite often here are the result of Ni curves being used with Ti coils. Your cotton burning question still comes back to the same answer, cotton burns at one temperature, no matter which wire is used.
Also if someone pointed out that they saw singeing on their cotton at different temperatures for Ni and Ti, then their mod is not giving accurate readings.
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You must go abobe 900 C to have a chance to have the white TiO2 oxidation. No way you can reach that whith temp control device, as long as you are in temp mode. As for the difference in cotton burn I guess it's for the mods that don't have nickel purity(SXK) or Ti setup, so there's an offset in real and dispayed temp
Another thought is that the temperature curves being used for Ti don't seem to be always accurate. That could also result in different "singeing" temperatures between Ni and Ti. The point being that singeing for any substance will occur at the same temperature no matter what the coil is made of and the mod is reporting.
The Ti TCR curve is practically linear in the vaping temperature range. This is not the case for Ni200; if something is inaccurate then, that is the nickel case.
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If the curve is based on numbers that are linear, then it will be off. Ti is not completely "flat" across the range of vaping temperatures, there is some variation plus the variations of the alloy from various sources will also effect that curve. The next thing is what that curve is actually comprised of, followed by the accuracy, or inaccuracy, of the electronics using that curve. I don't think it's reasonable to expect "lab standard" results from a mod that costs less than $100.
Eh what? Did you miss the part where I said that it's practically linear? Also I'm fairly certain that most chipsets before the DNA 200 use a constant coefficient of first degree for their temp. calculations, meaning linear. And since titanium's behaviour is much closer to linear than nickel, you should expect nickel to be further off the true temperature.
Also I think you're dealing with simple mathematical terms but you don't really know what they mean because the following doesn't make sense: "If the curve is based on numbers that are linear, then it will be off".
Cotton singes around 450~500 F, so the state of the cotton itself gives some variability. Also, how quickly the power is ramped up and the resistance of the coil can matter, as the dry coil cutoff is not instantaneous. So if it's really far off (e.g., singe at 350F), then sure. Otherwise, there may be enough variability that a cotton test isn't all that good for testing calibration.
If you look carefully, the curve is not truly linear. It is close, but not exact. And remember that curve is for pure titanium, not the alloys we use, Grade 1 is not pure.
Standards specify that grade 1 to grade 4 are "unalloyed" grades of Ti.
Grade 1 is commercially pure as it gets. Even laboratory grade Ti isn't 100% pure. You can't have Ti in absolute pure form (periodic table pure) because it will instantly attract other elements
Regards
Tony
Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.
You are starting to delve into the region of considering how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Grade 1 titanium is as pure as you are going to find titanium and any deviation from linearity for Grade 1 titanium withing the specification is vanishingly small and immaterial for the accuracy of our devices. It's probably time to discuss issues which could have a real affect on vaping.
Duane
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