If it doesn't exclude O2 then why doesn't a copper wire oxidize? The same principle applies with titanium or any other wire.
You may be right but that would predict if you screwed down ti wire in a Cu sandwich (so the Ti doesn't see the screw and no oxidation is removed) then it shouldn't fire right?!?If it doesn't exclude O2 then why doesn't a copper wire oxidize? The same principle applies with titanium or any other wire.
With all the wuss about wire torching and pulsing, we better lay low a little while big guys discuss all the implications.
Personally I can make losely, ugly spaced coils out of Ti without applying heat but it's nerve wrecking. Much easier to use a small torch (which now I'm told is worse than dry pulsing). Gee, one comment and half my hobby is destroyed.
What a way to start the week
Regards
Tony
Sent from my keyboard through my phone or something like that.
You may be right but that would predict if you screwed down ti wire in a Cu sandwich (so the Ti doesn't see the screw and no oxidation is removed) then it shouldn't fire right?!?
But the Ti ox layer is between the Ti metal and the Cu! See what I mean?!? Anyway it's a moot point as it seems to work. vape on!!Isn't cu a conductive material? Sure it will fire
Your wish is granted
Dr Farsalinos talks about Ti & says its likely the safest option as long as you don't over heat it
Jump to 43:22
Like was stated before, the layer is so thin, you would get a could contact just by touching or gently pressing the metals together.But the Ti ox layer is between the Ti metal and the Cu! See what I mean?!? Anyway it's a moot point as it seems to work. Vape on!!
So guys, this whole oxidisation thing. It's all pretty new to me - I had often wondered why Kanthal micro coils didn't short but I had just assumed that it was something like the join between two coils wasn't as good/solid a connection as carrying on down the wire. I only really understood that there was an oxidisation layer in the last couple of days, from the Dr F thread and this thread.
I have some questions if anyone has some time:
- How unique to Kanthal is this oxidisation layer - or what is special about Kanthal's?
- I'm reading in the Dr F thread that Kanthal has a special layer, that's what makes it so good as a resistance heating wire.
- But then Titanium also allows contact coils
- And my experimentation with SS317L (Stainless Steel 317) indicates it also seems to work - although in my brief tests so far I've had weird resistance results for the first couple of pulses, and both times I tested it, TC didn't work when I first hit fire on a contact coil - either the resistance stayed the same and no heat, or the resistance and temperature shot way up to like 800°F and the coil glowed and slightly changed colour (greyish?) Then it worked as a contact coil.
- That greyness must be it oxidising, right? And that oxidising makes it work as contact coil?
- So do most metals oxidise and prevent shorts? At least, Kanthal, Ti and SS317L - but not Ni200? But Kanthal's is better/stronger? In the Dr F thread there is talk of Kanthal's layer being an insulator etc.
- If the Kanthal oxidisation layer prevents it shorting between coils, wouldn't it also prevent it shorting against any other metal - eg if the coil touches the base or chimney of the atty?
- So could I make a Kanthal coil, dry burn it until it glows evenly, and then have it touching the chimney?
- Ditto Ti/SS317L? But not dry burning, just pulsing for these
- Because now and then I've been in situations where I was almost certain my coil was touching the atty, and wondered how it wasn't shorting - I just figured there must be a microscopic gap
- But many times I definitely have had shorts against the atty/chimney - but maybe those times were always before I dry burned and/or they were with Ni200
- Taking a real example: Aqua v2 RTA, I always always struggle getting big coils in, constantly fiddling until they fit inside the chimney. It would be so nice if they coudl touch the chimney and not short. But I am sure they do (I can see the ohms drop as I put the chimney on), even after I have dry burned them until they glow evenly.
- Or maybe, as per what awsum said, even the slightest touch against the chimney is enough to destroy that thin layer - even on Kanthal? (But then, why can I poke and prod coils with screwdrivers and tweezers and it glows beautifully even after that - in fact, that poking and prodding helps it glow evenly? Why doesn't that destroy the oxidisation layer?)
- In the case of Titanium, to what extent is the pulsing/dry burning that Tony talks about related to oxidisation?
- Up until now I thought he was only do it to make the coil easier to work with - more malleable
- But is part of it related to better oxidisation / making contact coils as well? Do I have to pulse the coil until it's blue to make a Ti contact coil?
TIA!
I think you're rightAlso, on the issue that Steve is asking about of "why does the oxidisation layer prevent coil-to-coil shorts but not prevent coil-to-screw connectivity?" : I would have had the exact same question.
But I just had a thought - could this be why we have to tighten down wires so tight? That's something I could never understand either: I couldn't understand why I would get ohms jumping around unless my screws were really tight when the wire was clearly already touching the screw before I tightened it even further. If the wire was tight enough so it didn't move on its own, tight enough so it only moved if I pulled/pushed it hard, why did that still result in high/inconsistent resistance?
Now I'm wondering, could this be related to oxidisation? Could it be that, unless the screw is super tight, air does still get to it and it oxidises and affects the connectivity between wire and screw? And once it oxidises it's a poor/high resistance connection, until you re-tighten which both scrapes off the existing layer and also blocks out further air preventing a new layer forming?
Which explains why on our particular case, torching is probably a better idea than dry burningTony
There is very little available oxygen in a torch flame (it is supporting combustion of the butane to make CO2 and H2O) whereas lots available to an electrically heated wire!!
I won't enter the spaced versus full contact debate as both have merits. I only did it because:Hi Tony,
I ordered some 28 G titanium from the German site you provided and intended to wrap them spaced. Could you please explain to me why are you building yours touching?
Yeah but I have some OCD and unless a spaced coil looks perfect, I can't stop thinking about it. I can't produce perfectly spaced coils without a little heat. So spaced or not, my torch has to go over half of the coil at least one itzy tiny time... "to break the molecular structure" [emoji14] [emoji14] [emoji14]this is good & now we know Ti will work either way spaced or contact, personally i'm going to stick with slightly spaced because it has worked perfectly for me from the beginning.....wrap your coil & vape-it, pretty simple really & no need to complicate it.