To all my ecf brothers and sisters.....please read.

[WyattDerp]

*****This was a response I put in a thread about Starbucks banning ecig use in their stores. I felt this was important enough to post for more to see. *****

To be totally and completely honest, I honestly feel that we are digging ourselves into a hole that we may not be able to climb out of. I personally have not tried aerating in a Starbucks and I won't because of the fact that when I smoked analogs I never whipped out a cigarette and tried smoking in one. Starbucks is a COFFEE shop. We should be lucky that there are even bars that allow us to use our PV's and don't make us conform to the non-smoking ban they've put in motion on real cigs. The way I feel about it is, we have a chance to do a lot of good and spread the information about our cause but it is flat out unreasonable for us to demand something that wasn't remotely possible when we used analogs. We wonder why so much is negatively said about our use of PV's but don't stop to take a look in the mirror and realize that pushing our choice on other people may not be the best way to get vaping seen as a ray of hope. I am proud to be an ecig user which is why I joined this forum but I can't agree with the "bans" we put in place on establishments that ask us to respect their decisions while giving them reasons to disrespect ours.

Sincerely, Jeromiah Emanuel, Proud Ecig User.

 

[oettinger]

I agree 100%

I only use my PV's where smoking is allowed. I do not even try to vape in a ball game, in the mall, or in a store or even restaurant. No matter what it is, people immediately associate it with smoking, and there is typically no amount of convincing to get them to "let you". Other customers will ALWAYS complain when they see a cloud go out of your mouth.

I do not boycott establishments, I go to the smoking area, and explain my devices to people that ask, I feel it is much more productive.

There is NO LAW that allows you to use your PV anywhere other than where operators allow you to.

 

[Cronus6]

I do not even try to vape in a ball game, in the mall, or in a store or even restaurant.

For the record, I (used to) smoke at 2 of the 4 places you mentioned (and "sometimes" 3 or the 4 depending on what you consider a "store", after all the garden section at Home Depot is outdoors).

At a open air ball stadium they can kiss my ...
And they still can.

But your right, if you "shouldn't" you probably shouldn't.

 

[hairball]

I disagree. I'm not a smoker so why should I follow smoking bans? I won't and never will. I DON'T SMOKE!

If they don't like it, I don't need to go there and buy their coffee.

 

[txtumbleweed]

I agree with Hairball. I don't flaunt my PV but if they object when I vape I explain to them in a nice way that it is just vapor that doesn't bother anyone. No one has ever told me no yet and if they do I will leave and let them know I won't be back.

 

[GayleMarie]

I would have to respect the wishes of the establishment. I have been told in a bar it was fine as long as no one else complains. I am thumped I can use it in my car, house and office.

 

[wv2win]

*****This was a response I put in a thread about Starbucks banning ecig use in their stores. I felt this was important enough to post for more to see. *****

To be totally and completely honest, I honestly feel that we are digging ourselves into a hole that we may not be able to climb out of. I personally have not tried aerating in a Starbucks and I won't because of the fact that when I smoked analogs I never whipped out a cigarette and tried smoking in one. Starbucks is a COFFEE shop. We should be lucky that there are even bars that allow us to use our PV's and don't make us conform to the non-smoking ban they've put in motion on real cigs. The way I feel about it is, we have a chance to do a lot of good and spread the information about our cause but it is flat out unreasonable for us to demand something that wasn't remotely possible when we used analogs. We wonder why so much is negatively said about our use of PV's but don't stop to take a look in the mirror and realize that pushing our choice on other people may not be the best way to get vaping seen as a ray of hope. I am proud to be an ecig user which is why I joined this forum but I can't agree with the "bans" we put in place on establishments that ask us to respect their decisions while giving them reasons to disrespect ours.

Sincerely, Jeromiah Emanuel, Proud Ecig User.

And as I stated before:

Perception is reality. The manner in which you compare smoking in Starbucks to vaping in Starbucks basically states that vaping and smoking are the same thing. If we who vape act like vaping is the same as smoking, then the uninformed will rightfully believe that it is the same. Smoking was banned by establishments because it was harmful to non-smokers. Your actions are stating that vaping is harmful to those around you. Starbucks has the right to ban what they want and we must abide by it but we are only hurting ourselves in the long run if we do not repsectfully educate and advocate for vaping rights.

Here is another post made in the same thread that says it well:

May I point out that if we allow people to pack vaping into the same category as smoking, it will be perceived to be the same. This is severely important to ALL vapors, not just SB customers. If the vaping community can reach out and get even one WELL RESPECTED and VERY PR conscious corporation to recognize us, we will stand a better chance in the future of defending our right to vape publicly- and not be relegated to the status of smokers who are banned almost everywhere from all public groups, meetings and establishments.
ITs not about WHO bans vaping, its about BEING banned. I feel it is a fight for respect and acceptance.
My $.02

 

[wv2win]

I agree with Hairball. I don't flaunt my PV but if they object when I vape I explain to them in a nice way that it is just vapor that doesn't bother anyone. No one has ever told me no yet and if they do I will leave and let them know I won't be back.

My stance completely.

 

[MXBNW]

Well said.

*****This was a response I put in a thread about Starbucks banning ecig use in their stores. I felt this was important enough to post for more to see. *****

To be totally and completely honest, I honestly feel that we are digging ourselves into a hole that we may not be able to climb out of. I personally have not tried aerating in a Starbucks and I won't because of the fact that when I smoked analogs I never whipped out a cigarette and tried smoking in one. Starbucks is a COFFEE shop. We should be lucky that there are even bars that allow us to use our PV's and don't make us conform to the non-smoking ban they've put in motion on real cigs. The way I feel about it is, we have a chance to do a lot of good and spread the information about our cause but it is flat out unreasonable for us to demand something that wasn't remotely possible when we used analogs. We wonder why so much is negatively said about our use of PV's but don't stop to take a look in the mirror and realize that pushing our choice on other people may not be the best way to get vaping seen as a ray of hope. I am proud to be an ecig user which is why I joined this forum but I can't agree with the "bans" we put in place on establishments that ask us to respect their decisions while giving them reasons to disrespect ours.

Sincerely, Jeromiah Emanuel, Proud Ecig User.

 

[wv2win]

I agree 100%

I only use my PV's where smoking is allowed. I do not even try to vape in a ball game, in the mall, or in a store or even restaurant. No matter what it is, people immediately associate it with smoking, and there is typically no amount of convincing to get them to "let you". Other customers will ALWAYS complain when they see a cloud go out of your mouth.

I do not boycott establishments, I go to the smoking area, and explain my devices to people that ask, I feel it is much more productive.

There is NO LAW that allows you to use your PV anywhere other than where operators allow you to.

If you want to be an outcast and believe and act like vaping is just as dangerous as smoking, then that is the message you are sending to the uninformed. I don't believe it helps in any way promote vaping as a safe alternative to smoking but sends the exact opposite perception. No one is stating that it is good to be pushy or negative about vaping. But instead to respectfully and openly advocate for the right to vape because it is not harmful to others. Perception IS reality.

 

[salemgold]

I agree with you. I try to respect the rights of others as much as I would like for them to respect my rights. If I would not smoke a cig somewhere I do not vape there either.

 

[bmwjen]

well, i guess people should go into full blown asthma attacks in public establishments then..........since after all.........rescue inhalers include one of the same ingredients as vape juice......PG.........

I'm gonna vape & at the same time I'm gonna educate. Any questions? I'd be happy to answer them from a professional medical point of view. I'll also back my answers up with facts, literature & sources with credibility.

 

[wv2win]

well, i guess people should go into full blown asthma attacks in public establishments then..........since after all.........rescue inhalers include one of the same ingredients as vape juice......PG.........

I'm gonna vape & at the same time I'm gonna educate. Any questions? I'd be happy to answer them from a professional medical point of view. I'll also back my answers up with facts, literature & sources with credibility.

Good points! You must be one of those vaping "radicals".

 

[SimpleSins]

well, i guess people should go into full blown asthma attacks in public establishments then..........since after all.........rescue inhalers include one of the same ingredients as vape juice......PG.........

I'm gonna vape & at the same time I'm gonna educate. Any questions? I'd be happy to answer them from a professional medical point of view. I'll also back my answers up with facts, literature & sources with credibility.

Could you please point me to some of those sources? I've gone through all my asthma medicine and can't find PG in any of it, and between my daughter's and mine and various prescriptions through the years, I've got 5 different inhalers sitting here.

And also, just to be clear, nobody knows yet whether vaping is safe. We can just hypothesize that it is safer, but even that is just a presumption based on the method of use (combustion vs vaporizing) instead of any real proof.

 

[WyattDerp]

Could you please point me to some of those sources? I've gone through all my asthma medicine and can't find PG in any of it, and between my daughter's and mine and various prescriptions through the years, I've got 5 different inhalers sitting here.

And also, just to be clear, nobody knows yet whether vaping is safe. We can just hypothesize that it is safer, but even that is just a presumption based on the method of use (combustion vs vaporizing) instead of any real proof.

It is hard to say it but you are absolutely right, we have no proof as to what harm an ecig may cause since studies are not being conducted on them. I know for me as an asthmatic also, smoking was way more harmful to me in more ways than one and I love using my ecig and I no longer endure coughing in the morning, no more allergies asthma triggers from having to go outside to aerate, no more shortness of breath during exercise. I can't honestly tell people to just deal with it if I cannot say with 100% certainty that it is safe if I myself do not know. I'm not a doctor, heck I'm not even that good of a public speaker but I can't certainly attest to the fact that ecigs have literally changed my life for the good and just pray that someone will conduct studies that can prove that it is better for everyone.

 

[Levitas]

And also, just to be clear, nobody knows yet whether vaping is safe. We can just hypothesize that it is safer, but even that is just a presumption based on the method of use (combustion vs vaporizing) instead of any real proof.

I have to agree with this statement. There is no solid, long term study proving or disproving how safe or unsafe the vapor we inhale or any secondary vapor inhaled around us for extended periods of time. This can be argued all anyone pleases, but it's still a fact, no long term studies have been conducted, period.

That being said, I don't believe respecting an establishments decision to ban a product such as vaping is a method of degrading vaping or "saying" that it's just as bad as smoking, not in the least. It's respect. Respect for the rules and respect for others (regardless of how safe this product is or isn't). If someone might find the act of vaping an electronic cigarette offensive, such as possibly portraying a bad message to their children, i.e. "Using nicotine is Okay, as long as you're using an electronic cigarette and not actually smoking."

Now, I'm not saying that I believe that. I believe it's 100% on the parents to make sure their children are well informed of the world in all of its psychotic glory so that they may make educated decisions when any given situation arises, such as smoking or vaping. But, none the less, there are people out there that might actually be offended by such a practice because of how similar it is to smoking. Sure, it might be slightly ignorant, because clearly, it's not smoking. None the less though, I'm not allowed to go into Walmart wearing a G-String because people might find that offensive... sure, I'm not really physically harming anyone, but, no one wants to see my hairy bum in a G-string while shopping for their favorite China-made products.

Point is, vaping is our right, but others have rights as well. And if they don't want to be subjected to vaping while enjoying their coffee, well then, shouldn't we respect that, regardless of how dangerous it is or isn't?

I dunno, just my two cents.

 

[wv2win]

.......And also, just to be clear, nobody knows yet whether vaping is safe. We can just hypothesize that it is safer, but even that is just a presumption based on the method of use (combustion vs vaporizing) instead of any real proof.

I doubt you are a doctor. I asked my doctor to research it and tell me what he thinks. Several months later he told me that based on his research, including talking to several pulminary doctors, he believes it is as safe as any NRT products on the market and completely endorses me vaping. In fact he is recommending it to his other patients who smoke.

 

[WyattDerp]

I doubt you are a doctor. I asked my doctor to research it and tell me what he thinks. Several months later he told me that based on his research, including talking to several pulminary doctors, he believes it is as safe as any NRT products on the market and completely endorses me vaping. In fact he is recommending it to his other patients who smoke.

Well, I'm glad to hear that your doctor is spreading the information about ecigarettes to other people that will potentially benefit from them. However, that is one doctor out of tens of thousands that we have in this nation alone. I wish long term studies would be conducted and I would hope that we could agree that a study would benefit everyone, ecig users as well as the general public so they would be more tolerant or understanding regarding the ecigs we use.

 

[Scottitude]

My local coffee shop which is consistently voted Best in Metro Detroit has, among others, a bumper sticker that says it all:

Friends don't let friends drink Starbucks

This morning Mrs. 'tude and I casually vaped there while we enjoyed some iced coffee without incident.

 

[hairball]

Testing has been done.

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