Too Many Jan Join Dates Asking About Sub Ohm
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It might be theoretically safe, but there's a lot to go wrong with a 0.1 ohm build that isn't a problem just a little higher. At 0.1 ohm your ohm meter is going to be lying to you; the connection and wire resistances will start being significant and the meter accuracy is dubious.
Most of these meters are accurate to 1% of full-scale. It might even be 3%. More accuracy gets expensive. Full scale might be 10. Even if it is 3, that's a 0.03 ohm error margin. I don't imagine that a VV mod is going to be any more accurate. They're probably worse.
I've seen the wires on pictures of broken eGo batteries posted here. They are very thin, so they probably have a significant resistance. If you measure the resistance on on a VV mod, then they will read slightly high.
Then maybe your mechanical mod has a less oxidised connector than your meter or your Vamo.
And that 0.1 ohm coil you thought you'd built could easily turn out to be 0.02 ohms.
Most of these meters are accurate to 1% of full-scale. It might even be 3%. More accuracy gets expensive. Full scale might be 10. Even if it is 3, that's a 0.03 ohm error margin. I don't imagine that a VV mod is going to be any more accurate. They're probably worse.
I've seen the wires on pictures of broken eGo batteries posted here. They are very thin, so they probably have a significant resistance. If you measure the resistance on on a VV mod, then they will read slightly high.
Then maybe your mechanical mod has a less oxidised connector than your meter or your Vamo.
And that 0.1 ohm coil you thought you'd built could easily turn out to be 0.02 ohms.
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Oh, I do...and I'd tell you about them but I'm not sure about the statute of limitations on them....
That's a very good point - I've seen the actual calibration data for the test equipment we use at work, and even our most accurate gear is permitted to have some deviation from standard.
Oh, I do...and I'd tell you about them but I'm not sure about the statute of limitations on them....
I'm definitely picking up what you're putting down - and I have a few "oh crap, the fire department's here!" stories that I might pass down once I get to the nursing home, lol.
In case you haven't seen this thread.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-my-throat-while-sub-ohming-dont-like-me.html
Vape On
Burnie
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-my-throat-while-sub-ohming-dont-like-me.html
Vape On
Burnie
I've only made it through 17 pages of this thread and agree with much of the concern being expressed. In many ways I see what's happening as being analogous with what's happening in my local Miata club. For 14 years I've been modding and racing these cars and have learned trough trial and error and extensive research the limits that can be pushed before things start to go bad. A good example is forced induction. My car runs 15psi safely and behaves like a daily driver while putting over 240rwhp to the ground.
In the last few years as older Miatas have become cheap to buy there is an influx of kids buying these cars and slapping eBay turbos on them then wondering why the engines threw a rod. These people are not interested in the 'craft' of learning and experimenting, only pushing the envelope with no experience or knowledge. I try to educate the best I can but, like here, I become overwhelmed by the growing numbers of newbies who have just bought their first Miatas asking where they can buy the cheapest kit to get 200hp. At least their mistakes won't literally blow up in their face!
There is always going to be large element who wants to push the envelope without regard to the risks of doing so, and there will always be those who try their best to keep them safe.
In the last few years as older Miatas have become cheap to buy there is an influx of kids buying these cars and slapping eBay turbos on them then wondering why the engines threw a rod. These people are not interested in the 'craft' of learning and experimenting, only pushing the envelope with no experience or knowledge. I try to educate the best I can but, like here, I become overwhelmed by the growing numbers of newbies who have just bought their first Miatas asking where they can buy the cheapest kit to get 200hp. At least their mistakes won't literally blow up in their face!
There is always going to be large element who wants to push the envelope without regard to the risks of doing so, and there will always be those who try their best to keep them safe.
Nobody wants government regulation of the E-Cig industry. People that harm themselves by building bombs will only speed the regulation process up. I am waiting for the CNBC special regarding how dangerous vaping is.......... "E cigarette enthusiast perishes when his setup catches on fire, burning down his house with him trapped upstairs" or something similar.
Thank you for sharing your story. There can be some "egos" in the vaping community and admitting you made a dumb mistake and sharing it with us is helpful to newbie and veteran vapers alike. These e-cigs can be very harmful if not used properly and they need to be used with extreme caution. I am glad nothing more serious happened and that it was a more "oh crap" wake-up call, could of been alot worse.
Vape ON (cautiously)....
Vape ON (cautiously)....
In case you haven't seen this thread.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-my-throat-while-sub-ohming-dont-like-me.html
Vape On
Burnie
This thread should be pinned or quoted in the sticky thread of the DIY forums - genuine stories of what can go wrong, even for Vapers of 4+ years. Sub-ohm sounds to me as risky as it should be: much like sub-temp hardware overclocking (I love to compare).
I think the mods of the forum should brainstorm some ideas of how to limit discussion of sub-ohm Vaping among the newest members of the community, though there isn't much that can be done aside from limiting access to subforums to members of a low post count and/or short amount of time registered. Then again, I guess a subforum could be created specifically for sub-ohm Vaping and then a member has to go through some form of proficiency test (made possible by a form script, perhaps) to allow them to gain access to the forum - this would work in a similar way to becoming a Verified Member for the purpose of participating in the Classifieds. Obviously rules would then have to be drawn up to ban sub-ohm discussion in the other forums - this would require moderation to enforce.
I think that, as such a big Vaping community, ECF has a certain moral obligation to ensure the protection of our community and the members. Not much aside from moderation, disclaimers and blatant warnings can be done though. Unfortunately, some will refuse to accept the dangers and the advice and it is them who therefore pose a risk to Vaping. It's a shame.
I see where you're coming from with wanting to limit the discussion about sub ohm, but that would only limit the information. It's a good thing to see noobs coming here with questions. The problem is when they come here with questions after doing it on their own for 'who knows how long.'
These noobs watch viral 'cloud videos' on youtube that don't explain the dangers. From there it's a matter of 'monkey see monkey do.'
I was just trying to think of ways to limit the possibilities of people new to the forums spotting "sub ohm" and instantly thinking: "Sub ohm? I could do that". I do agree with you, knowledge is power. But it's risky for newcomers and they seem to have a lot do difficulty accepting that - they want those huge clouds but don't care about the risks associated with tinkering with electronics when you don't have the knowledge or education required to do so.
I hear that - I'm an RX-everything guy and it's nearly painful to watch.
And I'm in total agreement that it's analogous to the apparent "race to a hard short circuit" with parts of the sub-ohm community.
Nothing we can do is going to stop it. All we can do is mitigate the disaster.
I am a newbie and have done my share of reading on the forum, asking questions at local shops and knowing my limits....I think common sense plays a role in this...I too am interested and have bought a kayfun 3.1 today but will only use my provari with it because it will shut down if I go below 1.2ohms from what I'm told.
I did fire it at .5 and the battery heated up enough in a fraction of a second to collapse the heat spring. I strongly suspect it would have vented before I even knew I had a problem. It was the battery rattling in the case that alerted me.
I also suspect that although the atty was reading .5 when I pulled it off it probably had quite the voltage drop and was down more like .2-.3 under load. .5 should not have heated things up that fast enough to collapse the spring.
Myrany, 0.5 ohms would draw about 8 amps at 4V (the max I think you would have seen from a typical fully charged battery taking some voltage drop from a 0.5 ohm load into account). IMO it's unlikely the battery was heating up. The spring on the other hand may well be designed to collapse at 8A. The 2 cent fuses cut out at between 5 and 7 amps.
It's not battery heat that collapses the spring, it's the spring heating up that does it. If the battery ever got hot enough to collapse the spring it would be too late for the battery
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