In any community, group, demographic, or whatever, there will be idiots. Stressing over it is a waste as is stressing over anything out of your control.
Too Many Jan Join Dates Asking About Sub Ohm
- Thread starter StarsAndBars
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Nope. Just everyone assuming that every person in the history of sub ohm vaping did it or is doing it for the clouds.
Unfortunately we live in capitalism nation. The industry & admins themselves need new comers like myself & the cloudchaser wannabes. In the end they just want growth & sales, penalising ppl's vaping attitude is too counterproductive. They love that new comers are skipping steps & going into higher end stuff. Nothing we can do as this is normal in every industry/community etc :/.
"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"
― Plato
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint"
― Hesiod, 8th century BC
"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
― Peter the Hermit A.D. 1274
[My thanks to pinkfreud-ga for compiling that list]
"plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
― Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr A.D. 1849
You cannot teach a man anything, you can only help him find it within himself.
― Galileo Galilei
Bodily exercise, when compulsory, does no harm to the body; but knowledge which is acquired under compulsion obtains no hold on the mind.
― Plato
Rules, whether they govern sexual morality or financial probity, regardless of whether they are justifiable or undesirable, always provoke bold recalcitrants to devise clever, defiant ways to breach them.
― Richard Davenport-Hines
― Plato
"I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint"
― Hesiod, 8th century BC
"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."
― Peter the Hermit A.D. 1274
[My thanks to pinkfreud-ga for compiling that list]
"plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose"
― Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr A.D. 1849
You cannot teach a man anything, you can only help him find it within himself.
― Galileo Galilei
Bodily exercise, when compulsory, does no harm to the body; but knowledge which is acquired under compulsion obtains no hold on the mind.
― Plato
Rules, whether they govern sexual morality or financial probity, regardless of whether they are justifiable or undesirable, always provoke bold recalcitrants to devise clever, defiant ways to breach them.
― Richard Davenport-Hines
So true rurwin. We were at my sister in law's a couple of weeks ago and I enjoyed a good read from a scrapbook that was my mother in law's with newspaper clippings from about 1930 through 1945. Human nature does not change.
"Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them? - Plato"
They became the people who created the future. Over and over again.
The people who are pushing the limits, and encouraging others to do so, should bear the burden of educating those people. That (apparently) most are not doing so is a great indicator of the general disdain for competence that those gravitating to that sub-group seem to have.
What to do about it? Discuss it, I suppose. I'm not responsible for them, and I don't have much patience for it, anymore. I'm not into it, yet I've answered many posts that I found alarming, even researching for them about things I'm not interested in, such as batteries with ultra-high current ratings. It gets taken for granted, or found offensive, usually.
I applaud anyone willing to take on the teacher role for extended periods, but it should not be expected of everyone. It won't prevent the disasters, anyway, though one can hope it would reduce them. I'm not so sure, anymore.
What to do about it? Discuss it, I suppose. I'm not responsible for them, and I don't have much patience for it, anymore. I'm not into it, yet I've answered many posts that I found alarming, even researching for them about things I'm not interested in, such as batteries with ultra-high current ratings. It gets taken for granted, or found offensive, usually.
I applaud anyone willing to take on the teacher role for extended periods, but it should not be expected of everyone. It won't prevent the disasters, anyway, though one can hope it would reduce them. I'm not so sure, anymore.
What is truly scary and hasn't been mentioned yet, is that of all the thousands or millions of views on youtube for cloud chasing, only a very small percentage of those folks come here to the forums looking for help/advice. I don't even want to think about how many folks are trying to figure this out on their own, using only videos or word of mouth to try to figure it out.
As for the youtube videos, maybe with a large enough public outcry, youtube could insert a quick 30 second warning/safety message before every ecig video posted, like Jackass does before every show/movie. That might get folks to pay attention, but I don't think that will ever happen.
Here are my thoughts on helping folks that want to rebuild/sub ohm:
I have been using a REO Grand for over 3 years. I used cartos for almost 3 years before I decided I wanted to try RBAs and micro coils. I spent over a month watching videos, researching, and asking questions here on the forums before I bought anything or tried anything. And then I went VERY slowly.
I have 7 friends at work who also use REOs and a few weeks after I switched, two of them also wanted to switch. I gave them each a detailed shopping list of required items with website links to purchase(RBA, specific batteries, ohm meter, etc.) and also told them they needed to spend the time waiting for their gear on the forums educating themselves. Then I had both of them come over to my house one weekend and I spent about 3 hours showing them exactly what they needed to do start to finish. I explained to them the limits of their gear and what they could not do. I then made them wrap, install and test 3 separate coils each before I let them out the door. I still follow up with them to this day to make sure they are not having any issues.
We can't save everyone, but if we can save a few, its a start.
As for the youtube videos, maybe with a large enough public outcry, youtube could insert a quick 30 second warning/safety message before every ecig video posted, like Jackass does before every show/movie. That might get folks to pay attention, but I don't think that will ever happen.
Here are my thoughts on helping folks that want to rebuild/sub ohm:
I have been using a REO Grand for over 3 years. I used cartos for almost 3 years before I decided I wanted to try RBAs and micro coils. I spent over a month watching videos, researching, and asking questions here on the forums before I bought anything or tried anything. And then I went VERY slowly.
I have 7 friends at work who also use REOs and a few weeks after I switched, two of them also wanted to switch. I gave them each a detailed shopping list of required items with website links to purchase(RBA, specific batteries, ohm meter, etc.) and also told them they needed to spend the time waiting for their gear on the forums educating themselves. Then I had both of them come over to my house one weekend and I spent about 3 hours showing them exactly what they needed to do start to finish. I explained to them the limits of their gear and what they could not do. I then made them wrap, install and test 3 separate coils each before I let them out the door. I still follow up with them to this day to make sure they are not having any issues.
We can't save everyone, but if we can save a few, its a start.
These threads are always informative and interesting to read. Good points are brought up, and everyone agrees that there are dangers associated with lack of knowledge.
I can see where some people would like a "test" to move on to more advanced knowledge. If people build sub ohm coils without any understanding of what they did, it can be a very bad experience. However, I truly think that limiting access to the knowledge will be a bad thing.
We want people to be educated on the safety aspects of what they are trying to do, and, in my opinion, if we limit access to this knowledge by making it harder to access, we will simply encourage people to gain all of this knowledge on their own by making mistakes. Don't forget that many people come to these forums and just read (lurkers), and don't forget that the attention span of many people is quite low. For better or worse, society as a whole has become used to having any and all information readily available.
By forcing people to sign up, make posts, pass a test, etc., there will be those who decide to just jump into the deep end of the pool and forge ahead without the knowledge that they need.
There are many reasons that people want to get into different aspects of vaping. Some chase clouds, some chase flavor, some want to see what is possible, and some want to experience every aspect that they can. This isn't by any means a complete list as to why we try different builds etc. and is not meant to be, it is just a list of a few examples.
The knowledge required to stay safe is not difficult for most. Some may not follow safe practices, but I believe we should always continue to give safe advice and answer the questions that are asked. If we simply say that you have not gained enough experience to vape at that level, we become elitist.
I don't have a lot of posts. I haven't been vaping for very long. I have, however, been working with the principles of vaping (electricity, batteries, basic circuits, etc.) for many years. I have tried a lot of different builds and I will try more in the future. I don't do it to cloud chase, I don't do it to impress others, I simply want to find the build that works best for me and for the juice that I am using at the time. If that is sub ohm then that is what I will do, and if that is a 2 ohm coil, that's ok.
My point is, we need to make sure people are safe. If we see bad advice, we need to let people know it is bad advice. If someone asks a question, we need to give an informative answer that tells them how to stay safe and answers the question that was asked. I have seen people here saying that the vaping community is changing. Yes, it is changing, and it is naïve to think that it will not change. Of course many more people will move to vaping. Those of us who have tried every other way to quit smoking will eventually find vaping and we will embrace it. As more people start to vape, more smokers will see it and will start to vape. And, as more smokers start to vape, more people will join communities like this one. We should embrace the new people and help them, we should not decide what is best for them, and we should just help them and inform them.
We can stay safe and we can help others stay safe, but if we are elitist about it, we will just turn people off and I think that will cause more problems than we really want.
Just my 2 cents
I can see where some people would like a "test" to move on to more advanced knowledge. If people build sub ohm coils without any understanding of what they did, it can be a very bad experience. However, I truly think that limiting access to the knowledge will be a bad thing.
We want people to be educated on the safety aspects of what they are trying to do, and, in my opinion, if we limit access to this knowledge by making it harder to access, we will simply encourage people to gain all of this knowledge on their own by making mistakes. Don't forget that many people come to these forums and just read (lurkers), and don't forget that the attention span of many people is quite low. For better or worse, society as a whole has become used to having any and all information readily available.
By forcing people to sign up, make posts, pass a test, etc., there will be those who decide to just jump into the deep end of the pool and forge ahead without the knowledge that they need.
There are many reasons that people want to get into different aspects of vaping. Some chase clouds, some chase flavor, some want to see what is possible, and some want to experience every aspect that they can. This isn't by any means a complete list as to why we try different builds etc. and is not meant to be, it is just a list of a few examples.
The knowledge required to stay safe is not difficult for most. Some may not follow safe practices, but I believe we should always continue to give safe advice and answer the questions that are asked. If we simply say that you have not gained enough experience to vape at that level, we become elitist.
I don't have a lot of posts. I haven't been vaping for very long. I have, however, been working with the principles of vaping (electricity, batteries, basic circuits, etc.) for many years. I have tried a lot of different builds and I will try more in the future. I don't do it to cloud chase, I don't do it to impress others, I simply want to find the build that works best for me and for the juice that I am using at the time. If that is sub ohm then that is what I will do, and if that is a 2 ohm coil, that's ok.
My point is, we need to make sure people are safe. If we see bad advice, we need to let people know it is bad advice. If someone asks a question, we need to give an informative answer that tells them how to stay safe and answers the question that was asked. I have seen people here saying that the vaping community is changing. Yes, it is changing, and it is naïve to think that it will not change. Of course many more people will move to vaping. Those of us who have tried every other way to quit smoking will eventually find vaping and we will embrace it. As more people start to vape, more smokers will see it and will start to vape. And, as more smokers start to vape, more people will join communities like this one. We should embrace the new people and help them, we should not decide what is best for them, and we should just help them and inform them.
We can stay safe and we can help others stay safe, but if we are elitist about it, we will just turn people off and I think that will cause more problems than we really want.
Just my 2 cents
Thanks for the post man. I wanna say that I didn't start this thread in any way to be negative toward people who like to sub ohm. I also have no problem with people 'cloud chasing' for no other reason because they think it's cool. Heck it is cool. The problem I have is the lack of information a lot of these guys and gals have before getting into it. I'll even go a step further and say I don't entirely blame the noob for not knowing what they even need to know.
Obviously I'm huge on personal responsibility and I would say that a large amount applies with this topic, but if these guys/gals aren't even aware of the dangers involved, what inclination would they have to research the dangers?
I'm not even looking to place blame at all. It's not why I started this thread. I'm looking for a 'group think' on the best intermediary between a noob watching a cloud video and going straight into arbitrarily making near dead short coils.
I also realize that a solution doesn't present itself readily, but I'd really like to hear and discuss all suggestions.
Nope. No flaming here. I'm not sure why you feel like anyone is giving you a hard time for any of the reasons you mentioned. I've been a member of this forum for this long simply because the people here are generally so helpful.
This thread is about safety, so if you think it has a 'hard nosed tone,' that's because it should. Do you know the amp limitation of the battery you are using? Do you know why it matters? If so, I see no problem. It's a free world and people should be able to do it any way they please, as long as it's done responsibly.
It's difficult for me to imagine any truly effective solution. It goes into the realm of 'But, it's for the children!', with anything more than a posted warning on the device(s) in question, IMO.
Simple warnings seem to be ineffective for a large segment of the population, as most have become desensitized to them, and ignore them as CYA nonsense from manufacturers.
Beyond that, it goes into restrictive regulations. Youtube has no responsibility for figuring out what warnings to post on what videos, for example. There's no way they'd do it, or even know how to properly apply them. They'd sooner yank anything seemingly involved, if it came to that point.
The people that are encouraging the practice need to step up and do so responsibly. This would be effective, but it's (sadly) a totally unrealistic expectation for most.
Simple warnings seem to be ineffective for a large segment of the population, as most have become desensitized to them, and ignore them as CYA nonsense from manufacturers.
Beyond that, it goes into restrictive regulations. Youtube has no responsibility for figuring out what warnings to post on what videos, for example. There's no way they'd do it, or even know how to properly apply them. They'd sooner yank anything seemingly involved, if it came to that point.
The people that are encouraging the practice need to step up and do so responsibly. This would be effective, but it's (sadly) a totally unrealistic expectation for most.
NO! While I respect what you posted, you misunderstood the "testing" part, which I don't honestly think is a half bad idea! The testing would be for people to gain "Vetran" status. Such as under my user name. It used to be you had to be a member for two years, now it's one, regardless of time on the forum or post count. Same as "ECF Guru" or "PV master" is by post count and nothing else.
Not sure I care much about the guru and master part so much, but I tend to agree on the veteran status, I think it should be more entailed.
I completely agree with you on veteran status. I was not referring to your post but to others that mentioned the possible restriction to certain areas of the forum. I think we should not restrict the viewing of areas or topics based on the fact someone is a new member.
I think it would be an absolutely great idea if we were to have a "rank" that testing was required for. That would allow advice that is trusted and accurate to be given in a way that could be vetted. There are a lot of people on these forums and an easy way for a new member or lurker to know that the information they are receiving is correct on advanced topics is a very good idea in my opinion.
I could not agree more StarsAndBars. This is why I cringe whenever someone 'blasts' into someone for not doing the research before getting into it. I did that once and I think the person never came back, certainly didn't respond again in that thread. I never did it again. There is ignorance of the subject and there is stupidity. You can fix the ignorance.
Discussion is always good, but making something happen is hard to accomplish. We are a diverse group of people with different levels of understanding of the technology and different ideologies. Gaining consensus in this situation is in my experience impossible. Some type of organization is needed.
Thoughts? Agree, disagree or how to move forward?
Interesting. Limit responses in new members (or elsewhere also) to these people, or just point out these people have been vetted?
I think just point it out. If we limit responses, it limits ideas. Sometimes, as we get more into things, we forget what it is like at the beginning, so I don't think it is a good idea to say that people can't respond, but some way to accurately know that something is unsafe when others with less knowledge are saying that it is safe seems like a good idea to me.
The biggest problem I see with this idea is that there are many different aspects to vaping. It would be extremely difficult to have only one "master" rank, and, if we were to say this person knows batteries and that person know sub ohm and this other person really knows mechs and that other person is an expert on.... and so on there would be so many vetted ranks that it would get confusing.
I don't know what the ideal answer is, but I think there has to be a decent answer out there.
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You've got a point sawlight, but a proposal could still be put together and submitted. I think if it makes sense, improves things here and doesn't make the moderator's lives any harder than they are right now it would be considered.
The problem is how to get there.
so I built dual coils at .6 each is it ok if I use this remote control car battery its 6000 mAh so Im ok right
Hey some lipos have 100+ C ratings so it may be ok.
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