Too Many Jan Join Dates Asking About Sub Ohm

[ShariR]

I see these new people asking about sub ohm and I do want to help, but I know nothing at all about it. I am still having to think through ohms law and I have been vaping for 6 months. I do not go in those threads because I know all I can do is ask the op to wait for someone more experienced to come along. Or post that they need to unplug the charger or put the battery outside their house.

This whole topic scares me. Young people truly believe they are invincible. It has been like that since the beginning of time. We will be severely regulated because of it. Now that vaping is trending I think things are going to speed up and not in a good way.

The Provari thing is not a safety issue. This is different.

It's not that simple or it would probably be solved already. You can't just answer everyone's question with a link. Some people are not going to follow it and some questions need custom responses. Then there are the inexperienced ECF'ers trying to help. And if you say no talk of sub-ohms until you meet our requirements, people are going to go back to YouTube.

 

[HawaiiVPR]

Nothing you can do, you can try lecture, educate, assist, help... but if the person on the other end is an imbecile, then imbeciles will do what imbeciles do best, and that's usually the exact opposite of whatever you are trying to convey

So, with that said, are we in danger of bureaucrat/government/nanny oversight? Sure, but that's a given with any industry that grows in size, and even more so if the growth takes from one collective into another.

If somebody is shown on the news looking like he was mauled by a chimpanzee because his sub ohm super nano quad microcoil device fired with triple stacked batteries blew up in his or her face, well, yeah, it will hurt the e-cig industry. However, at the same time, it would help weed out those who still have enough brain cells left to maybe take a step back or two and make a better attempt to educate themselves a bit.

Speaking of which, I don't think Sub ohm Darwin award nominees are the only things that will help grease the wheels for government control. Don't forget about some kid left home alone who cant resist the sweet smell of vanilla custard and decides to drink a 30ml bottle, or maybe somebody decides to see what happens if they pull out an innokin coolfire grenade mod at the airport. If there is an opportunity for stupidity, there will always be a long line of people ready to step up and see that through to the end.

 

[Rickajho]

I have encountered a few "cloud chasers" that have replied that I don't get it because I haven't done it, and once I do it, I won't go back.

My reply to them is that I've never done it because I have never tried to because vaping to me isn't about exhaling a cumulus cloud every drag, it's about nicotine replacement.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems as though at least some of the people chasing clouds are only vaping for that reason, which to me would be the wrong reason.

Exactly. There seems to be this sense of a massive disconnect between people who want to blow clouds and their inability to explain why they want to blow clouds. I quit smoking at 2.5 ohms. I highly doubt I will relapse into smoking because I'm not blowing 0.4 ohm clouds of... clouds of what exactly?

It always strikes me as odd, when a noob shows up with a mech they just got from a vape store with a pre-built 0.2 ohm coil that they never say "boo" about their smoking history. Why is that? They almost without exception never say one word about what liquid they are using, what nic level , etc. And don't ask questions about what you think would be relevant about those topics in context of using a sub ohm anything.

 

[TheJakeBailey]

I read through all 7 pages. I've seen scary threads with things on fire, sub ohm coils built by someone who don't even have a mod or a battery yet, and that was just one person. lol What scares me more than that is..."Hi, I just started vaping last week, and want to upgrade from my ego battery. Anybody have any advice on what I should get?" There will always be a handful of people recommending a mech mod and rda/rba as the ONLY way to go. No mention of any safety precautions, no links to any of info that is already here, etc.

I think you guys do a GREAT job of trying to educate. I say you guys, because I don't know enough to give solid advice. I've been at this 5 months, and the first two were spent trying to get a vape I could really enjoy. The next two were spent enjoying it. And just now in the last month, I've been venturing off into building my own coils and tinkering with RDA. Just yesterday I was looking at my batteries and checking to see if they were safe for a mech mod, etc.

It seems that at this point, vaping is at a crossroads, with quitting smoking on one side, and trendy new thing on the other. I'm not saying that is bad on it's own, but it may lead us to scary places. I really appreciate what you guys do, and all of your information doesn't fall on deaf ears.

 

[Kropotkin]

I'm so glad others are concerned about this! It seems to be some sort of plague.

The other day I tried to offer a (very gentle) warning to some noob trying to build sub-ohm dual nano-coils or some such thing, and overheating his device in the process. Of course he rejected this outright, and of course more noobs immediately chimed in to help this poor sod blow himself up with maximum efficiency . . .



I think the only way to stop this kind of idiocy is to somehow make sub-ohm vaping uncool. These people are obviously uninterested in safety - which, as others have pointed out, has never been a prime motivator for kids anyway.

 

[mobocracy]

I've done a lot of handgun reloading and you see a similar pattern of people posting in reloading forums about hot loads with ridiculous velocities and new handloaders asking about them.

Fortunately there are some decent photos of heavy handguns literally torn apart from poor reloading practices and reloading manuals do a good job about preaching safety and not exceeding maximum loads. Google "blown up colt anaconda" and you might not want to have something like that in your hand when it goes off.

But it seems like a similar social phenomenon -- There's always SOMEBODY pushing the envelope and it seems like the cool thing to do.

 

[tonyorion]

Stultorum eventus magister est..... Livy

Experience is the mother of fools, or in other words: some people can only learn the hard way.

With the explosion in the usage of ecigs, especially with minors, the brown stuff will hit the fan in the form of regulation for those of us who started with them to get away from tobacco.

I am quite happy using my VV/VW devices with 2-3 ohm on a variety of vaporizers from BC's to Genesis to Russian clones.

I have enough trouble getting my single coils to work perfectly on my first attempt every single time. I have to fiddle with them. Some vaporizers just do not give you a lot of room. But I rebuild using ohmmeters and take the power up slowly on devices with all kinds of safety shut off's.

If you really want to get an idea of how absolutely stupid some people are when it comes to anything mechanical, just watch GrimmGreen recoil something. He is a supposed to be a "vaping guru". I am not saying that I am much better, but at least I do not post videos about it.

Now, you have unskilled people doing triple and even quad coils in ridiculously small spaces and using unregulated devices with batteries of questionable origin-but hey they are cheap!.

Then, to add insult to injury, they shove these delicate and poorly constructed things in their pockets so that they can run off and show their friends. Add the proliferation of clones (some poorly made, some even better than the originals), and you have an accident looking for a place to happen.

Of course, most of them could not tell an ohm from a volt a month ago, and probably still can't.

To sum up: questionable and complicated designs + unknown quality + poor technical skills + pushing the limits = ?

You do the math. Please, spare us the BS about people taking responsibility and having the freedom of choice to do what they want with their bodies. If one of these bombs goes off and hurts others, then it becomes criminal and irresponsible.

 

[Myrany]

Ok bit of a momentary reality break.

I was one month into vaping when I started rebuilding protank head. 6 weeks in when I started with a RDA. I pestered alot of very patient and kind people here on ECF for the info I needed to do it safely. They were kind enough to give me the info (in the case of baditude repeatedly provide it as I am constantly forgetting which battery is which amps when shopping for batterys). It is possible for a new vapor to rebuild safely if they do their homework. I for example NEVER build below 1.2 ohms.

That said crap happens. I had a rebuildable dripper short at the positive pin in the connector on my REO. That 1.7 ohm coil on it suddenly dropped below .5 ohms. Had nothing to do with my coil it was an atty that this apparently happens on at times and I was unaware of (A7). The ONLY thing that saved my bacon was the heat spring on my REO collapsed. Scarey moment for me when I realized what had just happened. It can happen even when you do everything RIGHT.

My peeve in all this is the shops that are sending newbies out the door with zero knowledge and a .4 ohm atty and the people on the net pushing extreme cloud chasing. I get more than enough vapor at a much safer 1.2-1.7 ohms. In fact at times I have fogged the room enough to have trouble reading my computer screen.

As to why are veterans disappearing? Well I wouldn't call myself a veteran but I have been at this near 10 months. I stopped going to the newbie section. I have my hands full fielding the same questions in the general section. I only have so many hours in the day and at some point even I have to say I have had enough.

 

[Fizzpop]

I'd be happy with a sub-ohm forum and no discussion of it allowed in the new members forum. It's not too much to ask for a new member to make five posts to get where they need to be is it? Then it would be in an area that would be easier to find and guide people through it safely?
We could have a sticky in the new members area about why it wasn't to be discussed, then safety stickies in the sub-ohm forum.

+1 A sub-ohm forum with warnings similar to those in the DIY forum would be a step in the right direction. A smaller set of warnings in the new member forum linking to sub-ohm, battery safety, nicotine toxicity, and DIY safety would also be a good thing.

 

[Bunnykiller]

so I built dual coils at .6 each is it ok if I use this remote control car battery its 6000 mAh so Im ok right

yup you are ok... as long as you use the remote control radio to turn it on from 30 feet away

 

[Lifted]

There is a need for a sub-ohm sticky or blog entry with cumulative knowledge from more advanced members.

The scariest posts I've seen have involved a new person starting out asking about wire gauge and topper, and quickly devolving into questions about wire length, and general electrical knowledge. There was obviously no understanding of knowledge required for basic safety even after battery safety was stressed. There are tons of articles available on batteries and ohm's law, and loads of videos on wrapping coils.

You can lead a horse to water......

 

[Bunnykiller]

I've done a lot of handgun reloading and you see a similar pattern of people posting in reloading forums about hot loads with ridiculous velocities and new handloaders asking about them.

Fortunately there are some decent photos of heavy handguns literally torn apart from poor reloading practices and reloading manuals do a good job about preaching safety and not exceeding maximum loads. Google "blown up colt anaconda" and you might not want to have something like that in your hand when it goes off.

But it seems like a similar social phenomenon -- There's always SOMEBODY pushing the envelope and it seems like the cool thing to do.

I know exactly what you are talking about... 1500FPS 3.2 grains more than way too much... I guess it all returns to the social issue of being better, the one on top, the over achiever... Hey Bubba!! Watch this mentality... I have no problem with things of that nature but do it with a secure knowledge of the near maximum design intents. All it takes is that "one less wrap"....

 

[ryanvapz0714]

Yea im not sure why all these new vapers feel the need to fill a room with "clouds"! My cousin who has never smoked a cigarette in his life called me a few weeks ago asking about what dual coil setup on a trident makes the most clouds. I asked him what he had setup and why he was vaping. He responded with "well I have 4 wraps or so with 28g kanthal on a private vs with an 18650 battery" long story short he brought it over and I checked the ohms and he was measuring in at a scary .3ohms with a pink Samsung 2800mah battery. Mod got so hot I refused to work on it and ripped his coils out of his trident.

 

[HybridTea]

I get the "some people gonna do it til they done doing it" viewpoint, and am all for information being free. But -

1) Stuff that blows up can hurt people - and not only the people who built it.

2) Stuff that blows up can end up in the headlines, too, which can hurt the entire vaping community.

I know nothing about sub-ohm gear, but I'd think given the two things above, ECF would want to take a strong and highly visible stand on warning and education - one that NO NEWCOMER or visitor could possibly miss. Similar to the policy here on alternative vaping commodities, where there's no doubt about what's not all right to discuss, and for at least one similar reason - the overall health and welfare of the vaping community.

 

[tj99959]

Why not try to convince them that something else works better.
I keep trying to suggest that 2 ohm coils can work as well as a .2 ohm coil if they bother to do their home work. That's also why the RDA in my avatar is on a Provari instead of a mechanical.


IMO saying that doing this or that is bad is a waste of time without also saying what works better without the danger.

 

[Baditude]

After using some cigalikes for about 3 weeks, I advanced forward with a mechanical mod. Two weeks in with that the protected ICR Trustfire battery exploded when the fire button became stuck and the battery over-discharged. That was the battery recommended by the manufacturer at the time. Built-in protection on the battery and a collapsable hot spring did not prevent this mishap.



This incident is what caused me to get a regulated mod within a week, a Provari. I now use only safer-chemistry high drain batteries in all of my mods, both the mechs (which I rarely use any more) and regulated mods. I took the initiative to learn about lithium ion batteries, and openly share that knowledge with the forum.

Hopefully the guidelines for sub-ohm use, safe batteries to use with them, and other useful information will be completed soon by ECF staff and be posted someplace that everyone can provide a link to. I would imagine this would be a difficult project to organize and complete, and carries a lot of responsibility.

BATTERY BASICS FOR MODS: IMR OR PROTECTED ICR?

DEEPER UNDERSTANDING OF MOD BATTERIES

INFORMATION RESOURCES FOR NEW RBA USERS

HOW IS SUB-OHM DANGEROUS?

CLOUD CHASING IS DANGEROUS

Mechanical Mod Proper Usage Guide

 

[B1sh0p]

I understand all the concerns about safety and they're definitely warranted. I also don't understand why people want to push 80 watts when they can get the same performance out of 20 with the right build. But I definitely sense a bit of jealousy. It's a hobby. Join dates don't equal knowledge. A lot us were vaping before we participated in the discussion. "Did you even smoke, bro?"

 

[Kropotkin]

I get the "some people gonna do it til they done doing it" viewpoint, and am all for information being free. But -

1) Stuff that blows up can hurt people - and not only the people who built it.

2) Stuff that blows up can end up in the headlines, too, which can hurt the entire vaping community.

I know nothing about sub-ohm gear, but I'd think given the two things above, ECF would want to take a strong and highly visible stand on warning and education - one that NO NEWCOMER or visitor could possibly miss. Similar to the policy here on alternative vaping commodities, where there's no doubt about what's not all right to discuss, and for at least one similar reason - the overall health and welfare of the vaping community.

I think this is a very good idea.

The forum can't outlaw rampant stupidity, that's for sure, but it could put forward an official policy statement that comes down hard on dimwitted, irresponsible behavior. I don't have any illusions that this would eliminate major fallout in the case of accidents, but it might at least underscore the idea that most in the vaping community are rational adults capable of using technology safely.

IMO saying that doing this or that is bad is a waste of time without also saying what works better without the danger.

This is a great idea too.

Maybe what we need are online cloud chasers simply destroying the competition with safe, solid builds and kick-... clouds.

Time for R and D!

 

[CommaHolly]

It's not just here. I was at a shop this weekend with a build bar. On two separate occasions some young guy would walk up and start asking questions about dangerous builds and didn't like hearing "no" or "you're going to blow up your battery" as an answer. One of them got very pushy and confrontational. The other just kept asking for more vapor but had no idea what Ohm's Law is. Finally the build guy said to him, "Look, I'm not trying to be mean, but if you try to build that, it's going to be so hot you'll have to take smaller hits and then you'll get LESS vapor." The kid seriously had no idea what he was doing, he was cloud-chasing because his friend had big clouds and he wanted them too.

It's only going to get worse, I think...

unfortunately,,,,I think you are spot on.

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

The degree of intelligent input in this thread is encouraging.