Too Many Jan Join Dates Asking About Sub Ohm

[cyberwolf]

The biggest thing that gets me about this subject is the number of posts I have read recently regarding coil building that didn't mention a multimeter. I don't know where people are getting enough information to build a coil without picking up that firing it without testing is a bad idea. The only solution I see is to just keep hammering into their heads that pressing the button on the mod should not be the first test.

 

[Nikkita6]

Nikkita,

I really liked reading this post. I agree with you in most of what you say. I definitely agree that nothing will be perfect. I think me and you are on slightly opposite sides of the line here, but regardless of that, we agree that safety is important. To answer your question about foul language in front of my parents, well, funny story, but I still can't cuss in front of them.

When I was in the 3rd or 4th grade, I was supposed to read a book. My mother told me to start reading it one day and I spat out "I don't want to read the ... book." It's funny, but the consequences of that action have stuck with me. I still remember the face of my mother when she asked me what I had just said, lol.

I personally think that the discussion about how to handle this subject is important. Regardless of the outcome, threads like this give us something to think about as long as they don't devolve into a fight and end up with the answer "Stupid is as stupid does." The debate and getting the ideas out in the open will ultimately help all of us in my opinion.

I couldn't agree more ... both perspectives are too valid to ignore either, which reminds me that often times "the best way" is somewhere in the middle of the right and left. And I can definitely relate to how the "consequences" of that one time that stayed with you ... my parents were very big on teaching me the consequences of my actions. ;-) Oh jeez, my mom's all time favorite saying " A hard head makes a soft behind ", and she wasn't kidding

 

[Myk]

The biggest thing that gets me about this subject is the number of posts I have read recently regarding coil building that didn't mention a multimeter. I don't know where people are getting enough information to build a coil without picking up that firing it without testing is a bad idea. The only solution I see is to just keep hammering into their heads that pressing the button on the mod should not be the first test.

I recall a fairly recent one for dual coil not even going for sub-ohm not understanding why the VV wasn't firing. Reading between the lines had me guess they had the math backwards, they did. A multimeter would've avoided the failure to fire, a mech may have been dangerous (don't remember all the specifics of Ω but it must've been something like a Twist to not have a meter on it and have a cut off).

But I also recall someone insisting everyone needs an expensive multimeter when a $12 meter would work. $12 people may go for, $80 makes people think they can chance it.

 

[rurwin]

^^^ I got my new Russian 91% at work, and spent my lunch hour coiling it, only to find the meter there, although a nice Fluke, only had a k ohm and M ohms range. The coil read 0.002k ish, but the battery only heated it slowly, so I took a wrap off. Then it read 0.001k ish and worked OK. I've just finished the tankful and just got around to measuring it on my cheaper meter: 2 ohms exactly. Sometimes an expensive meter is not the answer.

 

[Dandreid]

The meter I use for coils is one I picked up at Harbor Freight. $20 and works great. I wouldn't have spent that much on it, but I wanted one that I could easily replace batteries on (it takes one 9V). meters don't need to be expensive, they just need to work. I have some pricey equipment I could use, but if this one accidently gets hit with a butane torch, I won't feel bad about it.

 

[Racehorse]

A couple of posts have come up basically saying that sub ohm vaping and cloud chasing are the devil (paraphrased from my interpretation of those posts). I have to disagree here.

Agree with you. I think Lifted said it:

The point most posts made in this thread is that there are "new" people asking advanced questions about sub-ohm vaping with no obvious knowledge of the basics.

That there are some people who don't see there is an admission *price*, so to speak, for big clouds and sub-ohm.....that price is knowledge, understanding and respect for the technology they are going to be using to make those big clouds happen.

It's sort of like sky diving. You should know how to pack your parachute first. Or get somebody who does know how to show ya.

 

[StarsAndBars]

deleted post

 

[WattWick]

Edit: Deleted. Failed to pass my after coffee less-grumpy-filter.

 

[ADKodak]

I may have a Jan join date but it doesn't make me new. The shop I goto will not sell rebuildable supplies to new customers unless they can demonstrate actual knowledge that they know what they are doing and they aren't going to Frankenstein themselves into the hospital. I think a lot of what we need too is suppliers taking a small initiative not to put dynamite in kids hands.


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[shorestyle]

Why do you need sub ohm a micro coil at 1.6ohm is just fine for most also it's about 3 different things air and fuel (juice) play just as much a part to the amount of vapour as the coil does if you get the 3 right you get a great vape

Okay....

Let's compare 2 coils, both ran in the same mech mod, same build quality, same juice, same atty, same wicking and same airhole size. Same everything but the coil basically.

A 1.6 coil will NOT give you the same amount of warmth, flavour and vapor as a .6 coil.

Maybe it's "just fine" for you. But you can't speak for everyone.

 

[IMFire3605]

Technically being that I do work at a vape shop, we here in the Phoenix area are getting concerned, especially myself. To many kids being influenced by the eastward migrating Cali Sub-Ohm culture moving our way, kids that have never touched a cigarette or the likes. I am of the stance, if you aren't smoking already, even maybe trying to use vaping as a weight loss system, we've been getting a few of those lately as well, then why oh why do you want to step in and jeapordize my right to vape on my SVD with an Aspire attached in public by wanting to chuck a cloud around like your buddies by p-ing off Joe "Non-smoker" Public whom we need on our side atm. I've got 2 attys specifically built to pop off and demonstrate chucking a cloud takes more than just doing a dual coil 4/3 wrap with 26g wire on 3mm ekowool or such, a Protank 1 at 1.2ohms, and a Smoktech Octopus dual coil at 1.7ohms I can crank up to 15watts on my SVD, and explain not only the nano-coil builds in these, but the physics of the airflow modifications, as well as show them all the Ohms Law figures for each build.

My shops basic stance is we will point them toward the proper batteries, the mod, and the atty and charger, then sit them down, explaining battery safety, Ohm's Law, air flow, etc, and do the first build for them, new user 1.5ohm minimum, they show they grasp the technicals at an advanced aptitude then we'll do a 0.5ohm minimum first build, and have them while we are sitting there duplicate the first build while we are doing it, then have to do 2 more builds exactly the same way while being watched as well as sign a waiver stating the assistance was technical teaching, final build type, materials used, atty type and model, and final ohm reading for reference incase the build returns with problems, most vendors that offer builds here, yeah, we'll sell ya one, and build it for an additional $5 labor charge.

This culture should have been reeled in and collared down early when it started to become a large fad, but that is my opinion only, nor does it reflect my shop's stance.

 

[bulldog63h]

Could we put a sub-ohm section in the new members forum? I think that would make it easier to catch more of the questions and give us a better chance to give the right answers. I think that would do more good than harm. These questions are being asked in the NMF anyway.

 

[Ryedan]

Technically being that I do work at a vape shop, we here in the Phoenix area are getting concerned, especially myself. To many kids being influenced by the eastward migrating Cali Sub-Ohm culture moving our way, kids that have never touched a cigarette or the likes. I am of the stance, if you aren't smoking already, even maybe trying to use vaping as a weight loss system, we've been getting a few of those lately as well, then why oh why do you want to step in and jeapordize my right to vape on my SVD with an Aspire attached in public by wanting to chuck a cloud around like your buddies by p-ing off Joe "Non-smoker" Public whom we need on our side atm. I've got 2 attys specifically built to pop off and demonstrate chucking a cloud takes more than just doing a dual coil 4/3 wrap with 26g wire on 3mm ekowool or such, a Protank 1 at 1.2ohms, and a Smoktech Octopus dual coil at 1.7ohms I can crank up to 15watts on my SVD, and explain not only the nano-coil builds in these, but the physics of the airflow modifications, as well as show them all the Ohms Law figures for each build.

My shops basic stance is we will point them toward the proper batteries, the mod, and the atty and charger, then sit them down, explaining battery safety, Ohm's Law, air flow, etc, and do the first build for them, new user 1.5ohm minimum, they show they grasp the technicals at an advanced aptitude then we'll do a 0.5ohm minimum first build, and have them while we are sitting there duplicate the first build while we are doing it, then have to do 2 more builds exactly the same way while being watched as well as sign a waiver stating the assistance was technical teaching, final build type, materials used, atty type and model, and final ohm reading for reference incase the build returns with problems, most vendors that offer builds here, yeah, we'll sell ya one, and build it for an additional $5 labor charge.

This culture should have been reeled in and collared down early when it started to become a large fad, but that is my opinion only, nor does it reflect my shop's stance.

It's great to see a vape shop being so responsible and proactive about battery safety. A few of us have noticed the trend out of California lately and it worries us too. I have the feeling though that unfortunately the only thing that's going to reel in the irresponsible shops will be lawsuits after people get hurt. Hopefully no-one gets hurt to badly. The only reason that hasn't happened yet IMO is the inherent safety of IMR and hybrid li-ion technology. But when the wrong circumstances come together the wrong way that will change.

Kudos to the shop you work at and you too for embracing doing the right thing. Let's hope this spreads to other businesses.

 

[Myk]

Okay....

Let's compare 2 coils, both ran in the same mech mod, same build quality, same juice, same atty, same wicking and same airhole size. Same everything but the coil basically.

A 1.6 coil will NOT give you the same amount of warmth, flavour and vapor as a .6 coil.

Maybe it's "just fine" for you. But you can't speak for everyone.

Of course, when you limit yourself to a mech where the only adjustment is the coil. Be a little more realistic and the world changes.

My dual 1.5Ω is quite warm at 5v. That's 3Ω coils warmer than my standard 2Ω singles.

If that .6 is a dual that's 1.2, not far from the 1.6. If it's a single it must not have much surface area like the 1.6 would.

People can't speak for everyone but I've seen all the claims and put many to the test and micros with surface area (ohms) and voltage to push it makes more sense all around.

 

[B1sh0p]

Realistically, extreme sub ohm vaping has been in vogue for at least 6 months. We're hearing very few stories about batteries blowing up. It happens, but it happens with all batteries. How many people are sub ohming on those K100 kits with the 4 amp batteries? Maybe we should be more realistic about how dangerous it really is. I know, we should err on the side if caution, but the fear mongering is a little overblown.

 

[K_Tech]

Of course, when you limit yourself to a mech where the only adjustment is the coil. Be a little more realistic and the world changes.

My dual 1.5Ω is quite warm at 5v. That's 3Ω coils warmer than my standard 2Ω singles.

If that .6 is a dual that's 1.2, not far from the 1.6. If it's a single it must not have much surface area like the 1.6 would.

People can't speak for everyone but I've seen all the claims and put many to the test and micros with surface area (ohms) and voltage to push it makes more sense all around.

I have to second that. I sub-ohm pretty regularly (mostly because I like to tinker with different wire gauges and wick configurations) but overall, for flavor and warmth, my preference is a good dual micro coil.

That's just me, tho.

 

[Ryedan]

Realistically, extreme sub ohm vaping has been in vogue for at least 6 months. We're hearing very few stories about batteries blowing up. It happens, but it happens with all batteries. How many people are sub ohming on those K100 kits with the 4 amp batteries? Maybe we should be more realistic about how dangerous it really is. I know, we should err on the side if caution, but the fear mongering is a little overblown.

Actually, I have not heard any stories about a single battery 'blowing up' in a sub-ohm setup. Venting yes. I might just be missing them though. Do you have any details about the ones you have heard about B1sh0p?

Not trying or wanting to put you on the spot B1sh0p, just after information. Anyone else have any examples?

 

[Asbestos4004]

It is what it is...we're talking about the indestructible generation. How many of us knew smoking was dangerous when we started smoking? Our parents told us, TV told us, teachers told us...everybody told us. Did it make a difference? I'm all for awareness and passing on safety information....it's kind of our responsibility...but to think it's going to make these kids change their minds? Nope. If they want to chase clouds, well, that's what they're going to do. We can tell them what battery to get but if it costs twice as much as the ones on Fast Tech, they're going to Fast Tech. With the explosion of vapers, the chances of a mishap sky rockets. I have a hard time picturing someone my age (47) logging on to ECF for the first time and starting a thread that says "Don't know ohms but want huuuuggggee cloudz" ... they're kids. We can warn em til we're blue in the face but ultimately, they're going to find someone who says what they want to hear. Sometimes, danger makes things more attractive....like my wife the knife thrower. She keeps buying me bullseye shirts.

 

[B1sh0p]

Actually, I have not heard any stories about a single battery 'blowing up' in a sub-ohm setup. Venting yes. I might just be missing them though. Do you have any details about the ones you have heard about B1sh0p?

Not trying or wanting to put you on the spot B1sh0p, just after information. Anyone else have any examples?

Actually, you're right. I haven't heard anything really. I was trying to be conservative. Most of the stories about batteries venting are just random occurrences, from what I can tell. Probably just the rule of numbers. If x amount of batteries are being used, a certain amount will fail. I don't think pulsing a 9C battery for a few seconds is really putting it under that much stress. These batteries are rated for continuous draw, not pulsing. I'm not saying it's "safe," but it's not exactly "dangerous."

 

[B1sh0p]

Ok bit of a momentary reality break.

I was one month into vaping when I started rebuilding protank head. 6 weeks in when I started with a RDA. I pestered alot of very patient and kind people here on ECF for the info I needed to do it safely. They were kind enough to give me the info (in the case of baditude repeatedly provide it as I am constantly forgetting which battery is which amps when shopping for batterys). It is possible for a new vapor to rebuild safely if they do their homework. I for example NEVER build below 1.2 ohms.

That said crap happens. I had a rebuildable dripper short at the positive pin in the connector on my REO. That 1.7 ohm coil on it suddenly dropped below .5 ohms. Had nothing to do with my coil it was an atty that this apparently happens on at times and I was unaware of (A7). The ONLY thing that saved my bacon was the heat spring on my REO collapsed. Scarey moment for me when I realized what had just happened. It can happen even when you do everything RIGHT.

My peeve in all this is the shops that are sending newbies out the door with zero knowledge and a .4 ohm atty and the people on the net pushing extreme cloud chasing. I get more than enough vapor at a much safer 1.2-1.7 ohms. In fact at times I have fogged the room enough to have trouble reading my computer screen.

As to why are veterans disappearing? Well I wouldn't call myself a veteran but I have been at this near 10 months. I stopped going to the newbie section. I have my hands full fielding the same questions in the general section. I only have so many hours in the day and at some point even I have to say I have had enough.

Out of curiosity, what do you think would have happened if that heat spring didn't fail and you would have fired that atty at .5?