UK had 1st Oil Vaping-Related Death in 2010, US has 17th.

[englishmick]

I'm ashamed to say this, but I was very critical of the CDC's approach...I truly felt they were lying.

Sure, they really didn't know the exact mechanism through which THC vapes suddenly started making people sick. For whatever reason they issued statements clearly allowing the conclusion that all types of vaping were suspect.

I wouldn't call it lying. But at best it was a thoughtless disregard for the consequences of their actions. They knew that their statements were dropping into the middle of a massive national campaign to abolish vaping, and they knew exactly how their statements would be interpreted and used. Was this something they should have factored into their public stance? I think so.

CDC are probably the only actor who can figure out what's actually causing this outbreak. It's what they do for a living. They could have been the voice of calm and reason in this mess. There are voices like that elsewhere, in the UK for example. For whatever reason they chose not to take on that role.

 

[Mazinny]

The point is multiples of thousands of these Im sure have been released all over the country from probably multiple sources and only 800 sick. Relatively low numbers imho. Why?

I'm guessing that most of the illegal carts on the street don't contain the substance(s) that are causing the problem. From the Leafly article, I gathered that there are hundreds of low-level crooks making carts, not a few major drug cartels, with established and consistent methods. I'm sure there are honest drug dealers out there that don't cut their product, and others who cut it with substances that aren't as harmful.

Also, a lot of the sick people had prior underlying conditions from what I read.

It'll be at least a few more months, before we find out what exactly was/is happening.

 

[fiddleshe]

S orry I repeated myself. Im tired.

 

[greek mule]

OK, fair enough.

IDK. Good question.

Maybe all these contaminated cartridges are from the same batch using the same cutting agent.They filled different "brand" cartridges with that and spread it throughout the States.If they cutted 1 litter THC with 300 ml of vitamin E acetate they could fill 1300 cartridges.

 

[DarrenMG]

Maybe all these contaminated cartridges are from the same batch using the same cutting agent.They filled different "brand" cartridges with that and spread it throughout the States.If they cutted 1 litter THC with 300 ml of vitamin E acetate they could fill 1300 cartridges.

It's probably that, but also somewhere I saw that the viscosity or maybe it was color, or both, of legit THC liquid is an indicator of potency. Either way, yea if there is a sudden health care matter like this case, looking for a bad batch, or a new bad actor peddling a new rat poison, is reasonable to start with.

The sad thing is we all knew this. Vaping is more then a decade old. We all knew vaping legit e-liquid is probably not the cause, but hopefully the CDC is also looking at those who claim they were not using THC carts to see if there is anything in common. I am doubtful, more likely the kids just didn't want to admit it, but we will see.

 

[Woofer]

Does anyone have a youtube account?

Several people do I am sure of that!

The video is up for 1 year with more than 1.6 million views.
The comments include many "kids" imo
Sage advice like "You can vape vegetable oil but it tastes like ...."

I reported it

Channel name is "Vaping Fool"

 

[Ryedan]

THC, Vaping, and the New “Mystery” Lung Illness

A good read from Black Note that may help folks understand the details.

IMO, those guys nailed it.

A little common sense is a really good thing when you're trying to figure things out

 

[kates]

Have to reiterate the following – sorry, but every time I see the thread title I cringe:

The death referred to in the UK in 2010 relates to a man who hadn't vaped for long (was using the type of equipment available 9 years ago, cigarette look a like?), had underlying health conditions and got a pneumonia that was related to oil in the lungs. The comments regarding a link to ecigs were made by doctors, media etc. who had no knowledge of what was in e-cigs or how they worked and a wife trying to make sense of why her husband died. They clearly assumed regular e-liquid contained oil (and it seems many in the media etc. still believe this). It is highly unlikely that there was just one cart of contaminated liquid & if there was a batch then surely there would have been more than one case (as currently in US). I think we can safely say it was not contaminated CBD or THC, neither were available then in vaping form (THC is illegal here still). Vaping was not officially linked to the death. Officially there are still no vaping related deaths in the UK. 200 vaping related reports have been made to the MHRA since 2014 - I'm amazed it's so low!. This includes reporting from the general public – e.g. could be 'I have a cough, I vape' or ' I have spots, I vape'. These are also links that have not been proven. Still, some people will see this thread (or a similar media headline), read the title, not read through it or research further and then believe and pass on as fact that someone in the UK died in 2010 due to vaping e-cigarettes and see it as related to the current US situation.

There is no relation to the current US situation which is about about a lot of people becoming ill/ dying over a couple of months from contaminated liquid. How is that anything to do with a single death 9 years ago which was not proven to have anything to do with vaping. Yet the two are now linked here as well as elsewhere?

Of course we need to look at the safety of vaping and take seriously/ investigate all reports but please can we make sure issues don't get conflated. Even if this single UK death had been vape-related it still wouldn't be relevant to any discussion of the current situation in the States!

 

[Katya]

1 In 4 Americans Thinks The Sun Goes Around The Earth, Survey Says
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"In the same survey, just 39 percent answered correctly (true) that "The universe began with a huge explosion"

Oh really? Who says it's "true"? NPR? With all due respect, it's called a theory for a reason. It may be the leading theory at the moment, but it's still a theory. The person who put the word "true" in parentheses is just as uninformed as some of the survey participants.

In the beginning there was nothing and then it exploded?

I'm depressed. I'm tired. And I'm very sad that we seem to have lost all trust in our institutions, including the CDC. I hope they figure it out sooner rather than later. The scientists and the doctors will figure it out, eventually.

 

[Smoke-fee]

UK

• Factory worker thought to be first Brit to die from lung disease linked to vaping
• Man thought to be first UK person to have lung disease death linked to vaping
• Factory worker, 57, is first Briton to die from lung disease 'linked to vaping' | Daily Mail Online

US

• First vaping-related death in Nebraska brings national death toll to at least 15
• 14th vaping-related death in US reported in Nebraska - CNN
• First vaping-related death reported in Nebraska

There have been no confirmed deaths linked to vaping in the UK.

However, some doctors believe the death of 57-year-old British factory worker Terry Miller from lipoid pneumonia was linked to vaping after oil from an e-cigarette was found in his lungs. A coroner returned an open verdict at the inquest after saying he could not be sure whether vaping was a contributory factor.

Last year after a 34-year-old woman developed lipoid pneumonia, doctors identified the cause as vegetable glycerine found in e-cigarettes, according to a case report in the British Medical Journal.

But the link between vaping and lipoid pneumonia is disputed. Ann McNeill, professor of Tobacco Addiction at King’s College London, told The Independent that in the case of the 34-year-old woman it “doesn’t really add up” that her illness was caused by vaping a nicotine e-cigarette.

“The case of lipoid pneumonia was allegedly caused by glycerin in the vape liquid the patient was inhaling - but glycerin is water soluble and an alcohol and not a lipid,” she said. "So the glycerin is unlikely to cause lipoid pneumonia.”

Taken from What are the dangers of vaping?

 

[AttyPops]

Sure, they really didn't know the exact mechanism through which THC vapes suddenly started making people sick.

They didn't know, and they said directly, that they can't confirm, a 100% link to only-THC/CBD vaping. And they said that from the onset.

This is not a lie on their part, it's bad data and/or something else going on.

Further, the incident rates are dropping now, so that's a good thing, and the "channels" have apparently cleaned up their act???? (That's not to say it's currently safe). But it's a good bet that if the black-market channels know what's up, they're not telling.

Maybe they should put out a "silent observer" type of hotline for this to get more information.

 

[englishmick]

They didn't know, and they said directly, that they can't confirm, a 100% link to only-THC/CBD vaping. And they said that from the onset.

I know some victims have said they used THC, and some that said they only used nic. Have there been any reports related to CBD? Don't think I've heard any.

There probably isn't much demand for illegal CBD vapes since they don't get you high or even give you a buzz. And it's legal everywhere. On the other hand there are huge numbers of people selling it. Some of them may be small startups who don't know what they are doing, and there's a lot of CBD being sold in bottles for ingestion that looks exactly like the versions that are sold for vaping.

 

[AttyPops]

The biopsies discussed in one of these threads indicated that some were CBD vapers, IIRC.

 

[AttyPops]

In the beginning there was nothing and then it exploded?

Well, it might have "poofed". Further, the theory doesn't exactly state "there was nothing". It just says it started as a very small dense "thing" and that's as far back as they can go. There's no time before that, so who knows? Further, it could cycle. And don't get me started on the religious aspects.

Suffice it to say your point about the theory is correct...it's a theory.

But not relevant to my point, other than maybe "don't omit possibilities".

 

[DarrenMG]

@kates - Good post on it was probably a one of, and not the same situation as in the USA. Also, it is possible to work in popcorn factory, or coal mine, and vape. It is of course a mistake to say 'see vaping, the common factor!'

 

[Tabac man]

There's nothing Jim but not as we know it.

 

[NGAHaze]

There's nothing Jim but not as we know it.

 

[iVapeDIY]

Have there been any reports related to CBD? Don't think I've heard any.

Advance to 2:16 regarding kid that vaped CBD YOLO product that was a "totally synthetic substance with no CBD".

 

[iVapeDIY]

Mayo researchers link vaping illness to toxic inhalation

Mayo doctors have contacted the CDC about whether their pathology findings will lead to an updated diagnostic definition of the vaping-associated lung injuries. Larsen stressed that the finding does not absolve any particular chemical or culprit, including the oils, vitamin E or other substances that are used to thicken vaping juice.

“Everything is still on the table,” Larsen said. “I am skeptical that vitamin E is the sole culprit, if even the culprit at all. Maybe it’s important, but I think we can’t stop looking.”

Mayo’s findings also don’t pin the blame on vaping illicit marijuana or its psychoactive component, THC, instead of legal nicotine e-cigarette products. Twelve of the cases in the report involved vapers who inhaled marijuana products. Two cases in the Mayo review involved deaths.​

 

[Blitzdonlife]

Advance to 2:16 regarding kid that vaped CBD YOLO product that was a "totally synthetic substance with no CBD".

Well, it looks like doctor Sanjay Gupta hasn't gone 180 from his original stance on nicotine vaping, but he has gone at least 90 from his original stance. This was a well done news report, I hope to see more like it. Good information on how a product (in this case CBD based concentrate) has been misrepresented, and not be what was purchased (synthetic cannabinoids, eg. Spice, wtf?). Thank you for the video link.