US Vape Mail Ban - USPS/FedEx/UPS/DHL

[englishmick]

Man... they have been around a Long Time.

And were Involved in some Monumental Legal Fights with the Indiana AG and the Governor. Sorry to see them go if this is the End for them.

They did say this:

"While these shipping restrictions will close down our online store, all of our B&M stores will remain open. We do have plans to open more stores within our region in the near future as well, and who knows where we will open up shop after that."

Operations like Hoosier are likely to be a lot more savvy in the B&M field than a lot of the small single store B&M's. Maybe the B&M area will consolidate into larger companies with multiple sites and figure out a way to survive. Depending on PMTA of course.

 

[MegaVaper]

Hey, did anyone else see an article about someone proposing a way to increase USPS revenues by allowing shipments of beer, wine and alcohol?

Banking and booze could save the U.S. Postal Service from the brink, experts say

So, we need to protect the kids from the horrors of vaping. But I haven't seen any data of anyone getting killed by vaping and driving.
But we will allow shipments of booze? (Yea, I know UPS and FEDEX ship booze)

I looked up hypocrites. It led me to the US Gov.

I have actually been pondering this for quite some time. And it made me do a little research. I found out that Tobacco is responsible for 2x more deaths than Alcohol related deaths. So, the lesser of the 2 evils is to ship alcohol.

Only problem is it is way easier to get alcohol. I for one stay logged in to Amazon all the time. It would be so easy for a kid to buy.

WHO Report: Smoking and Drinking Cause Millions of Deaths Worldwide

 

[YoursTruli]

Email from Hoosier E-cig saying they are closing their on-line operation until further notice. May reopen if alternative shipping really happens. They will be keeping their B&M sites open and intend to open more.

I got a lot of stuff from them over the years.

That was one of the sites I was referring to in my post above that as of the 27th showed no shipping options available to my zipcode. He did warn they were shutting down shipping to everyone on the 27th in emails. They have toughed it out all these years and always have been on the fighting for vaping front lines. I made sure I placed a few orders from them these past months, just got a few more Nautilus mini and standard GTs from them in the mail yesterday. He has been so good to and for the vaping community all these years. Hopefully they have a great walk in business that will grow by leaps post mail ban.

 

[CaveFurby]

Sad to see Hoosier go, I bought from them many times, good people.

 

[DaveP]

My order of 8 Tobecco Kayfun Plus V2 atomizers arrived quickly from ECBlend in Vegas. Ordered on March 12, arrived on March 23 standard shipping. I now have more than a dozen KF2's and a box full of various other attys that will probably outlive me. I was impressed with ECBlend quick shipping.

 

[NCC]

So, we need to protect the kids from the horrors of vaping. But I haven't seen any data of anyone getting killed by vaping and driving.

I haven't seen any statistics either, but I've seen scenes not far removed from this...

 

[zoiDman]

...

Operations like Hoosier are likely to be a lot more savvy in the B&M field than a lot of the small single store B&M's. Maybe the B&M area will consolidate into larger companies with multiple sites and figure out a way to survive. Depending on PMTA of course.

No Doubt. But Most of it (IMO) might get down to what kind of Fixed Costs a B&M has.

I might have a Establish Shop on the Fringe of an Urban Area where Lease and Insurance is Reasonable. With a good Amount of Walk-In from Regulars. So I might make it.

But My Swanky Downtown location might Not be able to survive because I Can't do enough F2F Sales to offset the High Lease and Insurance on it.

Hard to say.

I'm sure B&M's are looking to a Customer Surge in the next couple of weeks when the Average Vaper finds out that his Normal e-Liquid order Can't be Shipped anymore. I just Hope it is enough.

 

[Vapeon4Life]

No Doubt. But Most of it (IMO) might get down to what kind of Fixed Costs a B&M has.

I might have a Establish Shop on the Fringe of an Urban Area where Lease and Insurance is Reasonable. With a good Amount of Walk-In from Regulars. So I might make it.

But My Swanky Downtown location might Not be able to survive because I Can't do enough F2F Sales to offset the High Lease and Insurance on it.

Hard to say.

I'm sure B&M's are looking to a Customer Surge in the next couple of weeks when the Average Vaper finds out that his Normal e-Liquid order Can't be Shipped anymore. I just Hope it is enough.

Just read, but have not verified that DHL, supposedly the carrier that shops rely upon for shipping from China is also stopping all vape product shipping - If this is true how will B&M stores stay in business?

 

[Territoo]

Just read, but have not verified that DHL, supposedly the carrier that shops rely upon for shipping from China is also stopping all vape product shipping - If this is true how will B&M stores stay in business?

Not only that, because there are other minor shppers who could come into play, it's the large shipments that have been the focus of the FDA's Deeming. So what does get through will be those items with PMTAs.

 

[low_tar_neil]

What I can say, from a retailers perspective, is that there are a number of companies piecing together delivery networks and the coverage will potentially be as close to 100% as you can get, but it's not there just yet. For us at least, the free shipping threshold may change, but we plan on subsidizing it at all order sizes.

Some companies have been successful in getting B2B exemptions from the large carriers (UPS/Fedex) so this option does exist if you're big enough and can put together a compelling case to the regulatory team at those businesses.

Bearning in mind USPS is still shipping for another month, the main thing that is causing problems for businesses right now is 2-fold.

1.) The tax calculation engine you need to run the backbone on-site is expensive and a technical challenge to set up. Having been through a number of different checkouts today, there are only a handful (including us) that have this running correctly at this moment.

2.) The state-level licenses are a challenge to apply for, as some states still haven't figured out what they need you to have (California changed their requirements 48 hours before deadline!) and they're just not set up for the number of applications they will have had. For example, in Texas, we spoke to them about 2 months ago and prior to that, they had no idea that vape was now part of PACT. We have been working with a law firm to file these on our behalf, and 6 weeks ago, we were their 4th customer, by the end of last week they were up to 50. So a huge number of businesses just left it very late to get moving on what was going to be inevitable.

 

[zoiDman]

Just read, but have not verified that DHL, supposedly the carrier that shops rely upon for shipping from China is also stopping all vape product shipping - If this is true how will B&M stores stay in business?

It's a Mess. And Many are Not going to Make it.

Maybe @low_tar_neil can give more Insight on this.

 

[zoiDman]

...

2.) The state-level licenses are a challenge to apply for, as some states still haven't figured out what they need you to have (California changed their requirements 48 hours before deadline!) and they're just not set up for the number of applications they will have had. For example, in Texas, we spoke to them about 2 months ago and prior to that, they had no idea that vape was now part of PACT. We have been working with a law firm to file these on our behalf, and 6 weeks ago, we were their 4th customer, by the end of last week they were up to 50. So a huge number of businesses just left it very late to get moving on what was going to be inevitable.

As someone who has 1st Hand Experience with the California Franchise Tax Board and the CDTFA, I can say what a Nightmare it can be.

Having to Deal with 46 or so Other States from square One would be a Monumental Task at Best.

 

[low_tar_neil]

It's a Mess. And Many are Not going to Make it.

Maybe @low_tar_neil can give more Insight on this.

At the B2B level there are plenty of private carrier options including sea freight, given most smaller businesses won't be buying direct from the manufacturer, I would hope that the bigger distributors are already on top of this, I know the ones we work with are.

I also know for example that Heaven Gifts are looking at opening a US-based warehouse, so will fill that up cost-effectively using sea freight and ship orders from there.

It's also looking like there will be some consolidation with bigger distributors joining forces to make this as painless as possible for both B2C and B2B.

 

[zoiDman]

At the B2B level there are plenty of private carrier options including sea freight, given most smaller businesses won't be buying direct from the manufacturer, I would hope that the bigger distributors are already on top of this, I know the ones we work with are.

I also know for example that Heaven Gifts are looking at opening a US-based warehouse, so will fill that up cost-effectively using sea freight and ship orders from there.

It's also looking like there will be some consolidation with bigger distributors joining forces to make this as painless as possible for both B2C and B2B.

I also know that since a State like California doesn't consider Hardware to be a "Tobacco Product" if it does Not included anything made from or derived from Tobacco and or if there is No Nicotine included in the packaging, that this is made finding Carriers easier (if I can use that word) for B2B shipments.

Not sure how many Other States have such a Statutory Definition? But that was something the 420 Folks fought hard for in CA.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

What I can say, from a retailers perspective, is that there are a number of companies piecing together delivery networks and the coverage will potentially be as close to 100% as you can get, but it's not there just yet. For us at least, the free shipping threshold may change, but we plan on subsidizing it at all order sizes.

Some companies have been successful in getting B2B exemptions from the large carriers (UPS/Fedex) so this option does exist if you're big enough and can put together a compelling case to the regulatory team at those businesses.

Bearning in mind USPS is still shipping for another month, the main thing that is causing problems for businesses right now is 2-fold.

1.) The tax calculation engine you need to run the backbone on-site is expensive and a technical challenge to set up. Having been through a number of different checkouts today, there are only a handful (including us) that have this running correctly at this moment.

2.) The state-level licenses are a challenge to apply for, as some states still haven't figured out what they need you to have (California changed their requirements 48 hours before deadline!) and they're just not set up for the number of applications they will have had. For example, in Texas, we spoke to them about 2 months ago and prior to that, they had no idea that vape was now part of PACT. We have been working with a law firm to file these on our behalf, and 6 weeks ago, we were their 4th customer, by the end of last week they were up to 50. So a huge number of businesses just left it very late to get moving on what was going to be inevitable.

That's great to hear. I hoPe this investMent of Time/money pAns out for ECF and others.

 

[Katya]

Hey, did anyone else see an article about someone proposing a way to increase USPS revenues by allowing shipments of beer, wine and alcohol?

Banking and booze could save the U.S. Postal Service from the brink, experts say

So, we need to protect the kids from the horrors of vaping. But I haven't seen any data of anyone getting killed by vaping and driving.
But we will allow shipments of booze? (Yea, I know UPS and FEDEX ship booze)

I looked up hypocrites. It led me to the US Gov.

Unbelievable.

I have actually been pondering this for quite some time. And it made me do a little research. I found out that Tobacco is responsible for 2x more deaths than Alcohol related deaths. So, the lesser of the 2 evils is to ship alcohol.

Only problem is it is way easier to get alcohol. I for one stay logged in to Amazon all the time. It would be so easy for a kid to buy.

WHO Report: Smoking and Drinking Cause Millions of Deaths Worldwide

Per CDC: Alcohol-related deaths in the U.S.--95,000 a year. Vaping-related deaths--0.

 

[Katya]

Sad to see Hoosier go, I bought from them many times, good people.

Ditto. One of the first online vendors I bought from years ago.

 

[Katya]

I also know that since a State like California doesn't consider Hardware to be a "Tobacco Product" if it does Not included anything made from or derived from Tobacco and or if there is No Nicotine included in the packaging, that this is made finding Carriers easier (if I can use that word) for B2B shipments.

Not sure how many Other States have such a Statutory Definition? But that was something the 420 Folks fought hard for in CA.

I placed an order for some drip tips with Kai's Virgin Vapor (a CA business) on Friday the 26th and the shipping was just 3 bucks USPS, no adult signature required, which surprised me (CA is an Adult Signature state.) But the order has not shipped yet. When I Visited the website, I found this announcement:

"Kai's Virgin Vapor Blog

5 Day Website Shut Down
March 26, 2021

We are shutting down orders on our website for the first time in years in order to give us time to implement changes required by the PACT Act. The shut down will run March 27th through April 1st.

The PACT Act, also called the "vape mail ban," was enacted by Congress in December of 2020 and will ban the United States Postal Service (USPS) from shipping vape products, as well as burden vape businesses with complex registration and reporting requirements.

We are doing everything we can to lessen the impact of this anti-vaping legislation on our customers and have found a number of ways to reduce the burden this act would otherwise place on you. We will announce details soon!

In the meantime, don't panic! We are not in any danger of going out of business and the website will reopen on April 1st. You will continue to be able to place orders and receive them via USPS until April 26th. After that, we will continue to be able to ship to you using alternative carriers and will be offering additional help to get our customers through this transition.

Together, we'll get through this!"

Sooo, am I going to get my drip tips or not?

 

[puffon]

Received this e-mail...

"Some big updates happened over the weekend and I just wanted to keep you updated. On March 27th we were contacted by our lawyers saying that USPS had officially made a statement around the vapor ban. It essentially said that they had pushed back their decision making timeline until April 26th. I don't have a ton more details outside that, but that means we're allowed to sell vapor products until April 26th now. (Full details on the ban HERE)

Hopefully it just keeps getting pushed back *cough* FOREVER *cough* but we'll see.

Thank you for sticking with us through all this!

Have a great day,

Sam

HometownHero.com "

 

[YoursTruli]

One thing I have been wondering about is UPS date cutoff is not until April 5th ...no reason sellers can't send by them until then? Even if USPS cuts out earlier?