vaping is NOT smoking!!

[DaveP]

The new trend in "health control" is to simply move the goalposts...

That's how we suddendly got a lot more "diabetics", "obese people" and "people who suffer from high blood pressure".


Because "health experts" have lowered the standards for "normal" blood sugar, "normal" weight and "normal" pressure...


Suddenly, "health organizations" and "coalitions" found a new army of people to take care for! In a while, perfectly normal people will have to hear said organizations telling them how they should rule their own perfecly normal lives! For the 'childrum'...!

Exactly right, jpargana. The blood sugar numbers used to be 60-109. Now, they are 60 to 99. BP guidelines used to be a systolic max equal to 100 plus your age. Now it's 130 and dropping for all. I agree that lower is better, just like weight. Doctors urge people to be skinny. Not all people are genetically programmed to be thin, especially me. Luckily, my doctor recognizes the fact that for those who work out, a little more bulk is good. Thin people also don't weather health crisis as well as those who are carrying a but more weight.

 

[Anjaffm]

But... but... it's true! And it works, too! @jpargana

Hm.. I just read again the first sentences of the OP. And I may have an inkling what is going on and what may be the source of disappointment. (I MAY. I do not say I do. But it reminds me of things that I have experienced and that friends have experienced ... )

To my mind, it is not beneficial to expect people to give praise and show happiness and understanding about a thing that they know absolutely nothing about. They just will not do so. It is not in our (human) nature. At least, for most of us. And if they do give positive comments, then only due to the positive relationship between them and yourself. IF the relationship is positive, in the first place.

Example:
I keep pet rats. Say, one of my boys (pet rat) has been ill and has now recovered. I am happy.
If I walk up to 100 people - colleagues, friends, family, acquaintances who do not keep pet rats themselves (!) - and tell them "Oooh, I am so happy, my little Bobby, my little rat, is no longer ill!" - then I imagine the replies to be as follows:

the great majority: rat??? / ewwwww, rat!!!! / you keep RATS???
a few nice people: Oh, that's nice, I'm sure. (polite reply because they see that I am happy)
a very few people (my own good friends and other rat keepers) : great! That is wonderful news!

That is just the way people are. Expecting more of people means setting oneself up for disappointment.

Try it in your mind. Somebody comes up to you and is delighted that they have just climbed Mount Everest. Uhm... most of us are not mountain climbers and most definitely not into extreme sports. Well.. my reply would be on the lines of "Oh, how lovely, congratulations! (the polite part). But isn't that horribly dangerous and awfully expensive?" (the honest part)

Just my 2 cents.

.................

/edit:

Exactly right, jpargana. The blood sugar numbers used to be 60-109. Now, they are 60 to 99. BP guidelines used to be a systolic max equal to 100 plus your age. Now it's 130 and dropping for all. I agree that lower is better, just like weight. Doctors urge people to be skinny. Not all people are genetically programmed to be thin, especially me. Luckily, my doctor recognizes the fact that for those who work out, a little more bulk is good. Thin people also don't weather health crisis as well as those who are carrying a but more weight.

Yeah. Same with cholesterol. Luckily, in Germany, unlike in the States, people cannot force you to consume completely unnecessary drugs for completely imaginary "health conditions" which consist only of not meeting completely arbitrary (and artificially lowered) numbers on paper.

BP guidelines used to be a systolic max equal to 100 plus your age. Now it's 130 and dropping for all. I agree that lower is better, just like weight.

No, it isn't. Take it from a woman who has had low blood pressure all her life. Who used to have fainting spells all the time in her teens. Who gained weight as an adult and kind of normalized her blood pressure. But who just had a very nasty dizzy spell again, a few days ago, in hot weather.

We have an old saying in my mother tongue:
People with high blood pressure have a short and good life. People with low blood pressure have a long and bad life.

 

[wheezal]

the great majority: rat??? / ewwwww, rat!!!! / you keep RATS???
a few nice people: Oh, that's nice, I'm sure. (polite reply because they see that I am happy)
a very few people (my own good friends and other rat keepers) : great! That is wonderful news!

you forgot the one creepy guy that asks: "what kind of wine do you pair with rat?"

 

[DaveP]

There was a two year study in the 1940s with lab rats who lived in a foggy atmosphere of propylene glycol. At the end of the study, the rats in PG fog were healthier and had higher weights than their counterparts who lived in plain old room air. There was no organic deterioration and no cancer.

TESTS FOR THE CHRONIC TOXICITY OF PROPYLEXE GLYCOL AND TRIETHYLENE GLYCOL ON MONKEYS AND RATS BY VAPOR INHALATION AND ORAL ADMINISTRATION

Nicotine is also getting a clean bill of health for the elderly and is recommended in treating memory issues. That leaves flavorings, water, and vegetable glycerine used in foods.

 

[Anjaffm]

you forgot the one creepy guy that asks: "what kind of wine do you pair with rat?"

Annie Greens or Boones Farm

(sorry for OT, but I just HAD TO drop this culinary jewel )

 

[Rocketpunk]

Give it a year or two. By then, you won't care about others' opinions.

Two of my favorite quotes that help keep me out of trouble:

1) "Never argue with a fool. They will only drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience." - George Carlin

2) "Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." - Mark Twain

Hi friends, I got confronted by my sister in law the other day. I had not seen her in some time and we were talking and I said, I quit smoking, it's been over 100 days now. I have been vaping instead. She looked me straight in the eye and said, " so, your still smoking, just vape". I argued my point then she continued to belittle my acomplishment by saying. "It still has nicotine". I felt like I'd been punched in the stomach. I said yes, I'm still using nicotine, however I'm no longer getting the hundreds of toxins that cigarettes have! She looked at me again and said, your still smoking it. I tried to defend myself and vaping once more and said. It's not smoke, it's vapor.... she looked at me again and said, your still smoking!! At this point I dropped it. I get so angry when people say it's smoking!! We are NOT smoking!! Maybe I could have handled it better but I felt so badly that she didn't even consider what I've done a accomplishment! Well vaping is not smoking and I think I have accomplished something! I just wish others saw it the way we see it. Bottom line, vaping is not smoking and I think we all have accomplished something great by quitting smoking!!! Just wish others saw it the same way...

 

[67Tele]

Exactly right, jpargana. The blood sugar numbers used to be 60-109. Now, they are 60 to 99. BP guidelines used to be a systolic max equal to 100 plus your age. Now it's 130 and dropping for all. I agree that lower is better, just like weight. Doctors urge people to be skinny. Not all people are genetically programmed to be thin, especially me. Luckily, my doctor recognizes the fact that for those who work out, a little more bulk is good. Thin people also don't weather health crisis as well as those who are carrying a but more weight.

Not to get too off-topic...
I'm a diabetic and have high blood pressure. My fasting blood sugars have been high lately. I have my next checkup in September which will be a little over 2 months since I started vaping. I'm curious is to how the blood work/high blood pressure have changed.

For realsis:
Congratulations on the 100 days! I know from other experience how important early milestones are and that they should be noted and celebrated! For me the early ones were the hardest. As for your SIL she doesn't/won't understand what you've sacrificed and what you have gained to get this far.

 

[DaveP]

Not to get too off-topic...
I'm a diabetic and have high blood pressure. My fasting blood sugars have been high lately. I have my next checkup in September which will be a little over 2 months since I started vaping. I'm curious is to how the blood work/high blood pressure have changed.

For realsis:
Congratulations on the 100 days! I know from other experience how important early milestones are and that they should be noted and celebrated! For me the early ones were the hardest. As for your SIL she doesn't/won't understand what you've sacrificed and what you have gained to get this far.

All other things being equal, getting off the cigarettes will improve your numbers. Oxygen levels will rise and carbon dioxide will fall. Just those two can contribute to better health all the way around. I wouldn't think that inhaling PG/VG fog would contribute to blood sugar when inhaled and exhaled. Consuming them in foods maybe, since they metabolize to glucose in the body, but vaping ... let us know.

 

[mctiggs]

Great thread, great thoughts all around. Very interesting.
It kind of reminds me of the following, from that great piece of cinema "Uncle Buck", I thought it would lighten the mood...


Buck: Hey, I stopped smoking cigarettes.
Cindy Russell: Oh, good.
Buck: Isn't that something? I'm on to cigars now. I'm on to a five-year plan. I eliminated cigarettes, then I go to cigars, then I go to pipes, then I go to chewing tobacco, then I'm on to that nicotine gum.

 

[turbocad6]

For one, I doubt I would go back to smoking if that happened. I have smoked maybe a dozen cigarettes in the past five and an half years.

The last one (more than three years ago), I could not even finish. It tasted horrible.

So no, I do not think I am fooling myself.

It's like the NA-beer example I gave before: the fact that he drinks NA-beer for his own enjoyment only, while it is freely available, does not mean he has not "actually quit". It depends:

If the guy resorts to drinking just because his NA-beer has run out, then *maybe* you have a point. Still, it does not erase the FACT that he has quit drinking for all that time the NA-beer was available.

Now, if the guy has a Coke in place of his missing NA-beer, then yes, he has quit alchool, because he can still find other NON-alchoolic alternatives.

I believe I'm with the Coke guy

again, I am really on the op's side, I'm saying it doesn't matter if anyone considers it still smoking in some sense or not, this does not diminish there accomplishment nor should they feel hurt by the fact that some will still see vaping as a substitute for smoking and still smoking in some sense. these are just labels and yeah to a non smoker who has done no research on vaping they will not see in vaping what we who have really learned the difference see.

your beer analogy vs NA beer is really not parallel to this because what was once an alcoholic is now no longer an alcoholic. if instead we called that person a beeraholic, and they suddenly switched to wine and ran around saying hey I'm no longer a beeraholic, that would be more like our situation here... if you are vaping 0 nic then yeah your on par with the guy who switched to NA beer, but if your vaping nic then your more like they guy who switched from beer to wine.

one more time, I myself have been vaping since 2010 and I'm on the side of vapors 100%, but I still feel it's a bit of a stretch to put vaping in the same light as truly quitting, but I still say vaping is fine no matter what anyone else has to say.

yes the label has been "smokers" for so long because up until recently smoking was the only real form of regular nicotine delivery. if vaping had always existed then vaping would have always been grouped with smokers and maybe they would have all been called nicheads or something, just as if beer was the only form of alcohol they may have been called beeraholics... again all labels and all semantics, none of it matters all that much in the end but it really shouldn't be so shocking that vaping is grouped in with smoking to non smokers... who cares... we know vaping is so much better for us and we know that we have improved ourselves by substituting vaping for smoking. we should be happy with ourselves and not care so much about labels. when someone says to me well in a way you are still smoking my answer is yeah, and ?? so what? how does anyone else's label even matter? vape on my friends, vape on with no shame but at the same time realize that quitting is quitting, while vaping is just switching to a safer healthier alternative, it's harm reduction but it's not quite the same as quitting and that's perfectly ok.

so here I'll ask why is it so shameful to just admit that hey, I don't want to quit because I have found an alternative that I am comfortable enough with that I just don't want to quit. I enjoy it... I don't know why so many have a problem with that and instead try to convince themselves that they have actually quit when all they have really done is substitute

 

[turbocad6]

...Above all else, be true to thyself...

 

[catlady60]

Approximate retort in English "Well, everybody is entitled to their opinion. Even those who have no idea what they are talking about" (accompanied by a cold stare. Then walk away)
Stronger retort, if somebody really annoys you with their stupid blathering: "Opinions are like .... . Everybody has one, but nobody wants to see it"

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but they're not entitiled to their own facts.

Trouble is, the ANTZ are making up facts as they go along, trying to dictate policy with their propaganda and lies bought by the 55-gallon drum.

 

[AndriaD]

Yeah. Same with cholesterol. Luckily, in Germany, unlike in the States, people cannot force you to consume completely unnecessary drugs for completely imaginary "health conditions" which consist only of not meeting completely arbitrary (and artificially lowered) numbers on paper.

They can't really force you, here, either. The only medication I use for my asthma is my rescue inhaler. Everytime I see my doc to get my refills, he blathers on and on about how I really need to be using a "maintenance" type asthma drug. I say doc, I refuse to inhale POWDER, I stopped doing that recreationally years ago, and not about to start up again. And HAVE YOU SEEN THE POSSIBLE SIDE EFFECTS of Symbicort??? Osteoporosis? Runs in my family so I'm at risk already! No thanks! "Risk of DEATH?" I'm going to get there eventually, so why bring it on faster!!! The side effects of inhaled albuterol sulfate are pretty mild, mainly dehydration (from the PG carrier), and that's ALL I NEED! So he shuts it, only to rehash it again on my next visit.

No, it isn't. Take it from a woman who has had low blood pressure all her life. Who used to have fainting spells all the time in her teens. Who gained weight as an adult and kind of normalized her blood pressure. But who just had a very nasty dizzy spell again, a few days ago, in hot weather.

Same here; my *normal* BP might be around 110/70; when I'm ill, it drops like a rock, and a lot of other, small things can also send it plummeting -- I have an ovarian cyst that sometimes sends a lightening flash of pain, whoosh, here and gone, but it can make me pass out cold. You should see my husband start freaking out when I put my head between my knees to prevent passing out!

Andria

 

[USMCotaku]

I hate to even do this because believe me, I am on your side, but if you look up the definition of "smoke" you will see that smoke doesn't always come from combustion, smoke is a visible suspension of carbon or other particles in air, typically one emitted from a burning substance. as a verb "smoking" is to emit smoke or visible vapor, so in a sense yes we are still "smoking".



ever hear of a smoke machine? it's emitting a vapor much like our vaporizers do, but it still emits what almost anyone will regard as "smoke", technically it is smoke which is why it's called a smoke machine.... again I am on your side so please don't think I'm trying to belittle anyone but when you blow a cloud of vapor it would not be incorrect to call that vapor smoke and in that sense it's not completely incorrect to say you are "smoking"



again I say who cares about labels, do what you do for you

an argument like this is disingenuous at best . The only reason vapor is now in the definition of smoke is the same reason cola is commonly referred to as coke. Definitions change over time based in usage. From a former firefighters perspective, you need a source of combustion for smoke (the fire tetrahedron: fuel, heat, ignition, combustion. Remove one of the 4 and you have no fire/smoke). All smoke containes carcinogens that are a byproduct of combustion (we called them methylethelbad@$$ for short, the list is surprisingly long even for something as simple as burning paper). A smoke machine (more often referred to as a fog machine) is called such for its ability to mimic smoke/fog. By the addition of vapor into smokes definition, then the steam (definition: the vapor that rises off of a heated object) that is created by the water we use to fight a fire is also smoke. I've never heard anyone argue that steam is smoke before, but that is what your argument boils down to......pun a happy accident . Maybe if we started calling it steaming instead of vaping we could avoid some of the misconceptions?

 

[USMCotaku]

All my well placed smileys disappeared
Sent from my RM-820_nam_att_100 using Tapatalk

 

[USMCotaku]

if you are going to really be honest with yourself then ask yourself one simple question.... if all of your vaping apparatus was suddenly taken away from you and you had no means to obtain any other form of electronic cigarette, would you wind up going back to smoking? if you answer yes then the truth is you have not really beaten that vice, it still has it's hold on you, you have just found a substitute. ok yeah technically you can claim to have quit smoking cigarettes but you have to see the difference between what you are doing and what someone who "really quit" has done... someone who has given up smoking and all of it's substitutes can really claim to have quit, you can't put yourself in the same light in my opinion, unless you like making excuses to yourself...



in the end I freely admit that I don't want to quit vaping, I enjoy it and I want to do it and if I couldn't then I would very likely wind up going back to smoking, so I don't feel that I can legitimately claim to have quit smoking the same way someone who "really" quit can claim that, so while the sil here was stuck on that point I still say who cares? what I feel bad about is that the op was hurt by this, and this is the point I'm trying to get across, labels mean nothing, some will consider vaping not smoking and some will say it's synonymous enough that it's really not so different but who cares about labels or what someone else thinks, you have to be happy with yourself and true to yourself, only then can nothing anyone else can say will hurt you



I know many here want to believe that vaping is not the same as smoking, and of course it is not the same at all, but it is also not the same as quitting, it is a substitute for smoking and honestly I believe that most here if they had all vaporizers suddenly unavailable to them would wind up going back to smoking... if you can honestly say to yourself that you would never go back to smoking even if you couldn't vape and really mean it, then I'd shake your hand and say congrats on quitting, until then you are substituting and that's perfectly fine...

I can say with perfect honesty that I would not return to cigarettes. In fact just the smell of an analogue bothers me greatly. I'm sure I'm not the only vaper like that

 

[Jman8]

I can say with perfect honesty that I would not return to cigarettes. In fact just the smell of an analogue bothers me greatly. I'm sure I'm not the only vaper like that

I really hope you're not the only vaper like this. Yet, it is often said on vaping forums, along the lines of, if they ban this, I'll be forced to go back to smoking. That doesn't make much sense coming from general group of ex-smokers that seem to despise smoking nowadays.

But I still see it as a substitute and does carry with it an addiction, that may have nothing to do with nicotine. I've quit cold turkey before, so no nicotine substitution going on in that scenario, but there were other things during several phases of my not-smoking that were me filling a void, and which were me engaging in addictive behavior (i.e. overeating).

Vaping just makes that substitution of possible addictive behavior a little more front and center, and not even intended to be a little bit masked. But, of course there are exceptions. Not people, but I would say phases with same people. People get caught up/addicted to things all the time, and some of those are not vices.

As I said earlier, vaping is a lot like smoking when we are trying to help a current smoker understand what a eCig is and does, and nothing like smoking when we are trying to fend off ANTZ rhetoric.

 

[klynnn]

I usually say well you can't fix stupid so I won't try and leave it at that. Their mouths just drop open as I walk away.

 

[Anjaffm]

an argument like this is disingenuous at best . The only reason vapor is now in the definition of smoke is the same reason cola is commonly referred to as coke. Definitions change over time based in usage. From a former firefighters perspective, you need a source of combustion for smoke (the fire tetrahedron: fuel, heat, ignition, combustion. Remove one of the 4 and you have no fire/smoke). All smoke containes carcinogens that are a byproduct of combustion (we called them methylethelbad@$$ for short, the list is surprisingly long even for something as simple as burning paper). A smoke machine (more often referred to as a fog machine) is called such for its ability to mimic smoke/fog. By the addition of vapor into smokes definition, then the steam (definition: the vapor that rises off of a heated object) that is created by the water we use to fight a fire is also smoke. I've never heard anyone argue that steam is smoke before, but that is what your argument boils down to......pun a happy accident . Maybe if we started calling it steaming instead of vaping we could avoid some of the misconceptions?

Excellent posting, thank you
And I do believe that a former firefighter knows what he is talking about.

And now excuse me, I am engaging in some heavy drinking at the moment.
You see, my apple juice with mineral water looks just like beer. AND it is liquid. AND I am drinking it

 

[dragonpuff]

Same here; my *normal* BP might be around 110/70; when I'm ill, it drops like a rock, and a lot of other, small things can also send it plummeting -- I have an ovarian cyst that sometimes sends a lightening flash of pain, whoosh, here and gone, but it can make me pass out cold. You should see my husband start freaking out when I put my head between my knees to prevent passing out!

Andria

Same problem here...

I just checked my bp a moment ago, its 107/67... I find it a bit annoying whenever I go to the doctor and the nurse checks my blood pressure and goes, "Oh good, you're blood pressure's perfect." Um, yeah, wait til it gets really hot out and I have to drive my car with no ac, then we'll see how perfect it is! Last time I literally drove for 10 min, and I had to ask someone to take my dog's leash as soon as I got there cuz I couldn't hold on to her and I live in New York! It's not like I live in South Carolina or something!

Not to mention all the people who tell me to move south cuz it's so "nice" there, then they tell me I'm crazy for saying I'd rather live in Alaska

It goes to show that everyone's body is different and has different needs. This is why some people only smoke for a few years and quit, while others continue smoking for decades. It's why some people can quit cold turkey, others need help quitting, and others need a permanent replacement. We are all the same, yet we are all different.

This is why I always take unfounded criticism with a grain of salt. Chances are the other person truly does not understand you.