Vaping...More harm then good? For me yes...Im done!!!!!!
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Let's see if it works now...
I don't like the idea of taking leaps into the unknown. Taking leaps into the unknown is a pretty bad idea most of the times. Smoking analogs isn't taking a leap into the unknown, it's taking a leap into something that's very well known.
Just my two cents worth. Sorry if someone doesn't agree.
Really?..You know all the poisonous chemicals used in commercial cigarettes and their long term effects? I don't.
I agree...any help to make using vapor more safe I welcome..I'm new to this..Just started..took me awhile to get over the fact of inhaling PG. Scared the heck out of me..Still does to a little bit..
The New Zealand study helped me overcome a lot of the fear...It's a simple math problem for me--which one is worse?..I feel and I think it's pretty clear commercial cigarettes are far worse..I smke 2 packs a day(or did) and now I smoke NONE! Overnight I quit analogues and I only vape..I hope to quit e-cigs too..
My post was not an attack just an observation. The OP seemed to have an agenda. It didn't seem logical that someone that has/had life threatening symptoms and ailments goes to A MESSAGE FORUM INSTEAD OF A DOCTOR!! Just didn't make sense..
I Was just trying to get a little clarity on the situation..
We are all concerned on some level about e-cig vapor and the more info the better..BUT THE OP didn't provide any helpful info..Nor did his actions make ANY sense.
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Ok, I see...
And no, I don't know all the poisonous chemicals in commercial cigarettes but I don't need that much information to know how they made me feel for years (not too bad, really, but that's another matter) and what they may contribute to in the end. I stopped smoking as soon as I started vaping. I don't know, maybe I was naive enough to believe I was getting into something miraculous. When you look at the basic juice formulas, it all seems so simple it's hard to believe anyone can actually feel bad with a PV. Plus, there's no combustion. But then, a lot of people complain of this and that and they can't just be disregarded as if they were hypchondriacs talking nonsense. Yes, totally unbiased studies should be conducted, no doubts about that whatsoever. If ecigs are safe, they should be accepted and I mean that in an even wider manner than they currently are; if ecigs aren't safe, they should be prohibited because then they'd be a mean swindle; if ecigs aren't safe bvut can be made so, great - make them safe! And everyone knows the world is a dangerous place and there thousands of chemicals all around and so forth and so forth.
And no, I don't know all the poisonous chemicals in commercial cigarettes but I don't need that much information to know how they made me feel for years (not too bad, really, but that's another matter) and what they may contribute to in the end. I stopped smoking as soon as I started vaping. I don't know, maybe I was naive enough to believe I was getting into something miraculous. When you look at the basic juice formulas, it all seems so simple it's hard to believe anyone can actually feel bad with a PV. Plus, there's no combustion. But then, a lot of people complain of this and that and they can't just be disregarded as if they were hypchondriacs talking nonsense. Yes, totally unbiased studies should be conducted, no doubts about that whatsoever. If ecigs are safe, they should be accepted and I mean that in an even wider manner than they currently are; if ecigs aren't safe, they should be prohibited because then they'd be a mean swindle; if ecigs aren't safe bvut can be made so, great - make them safe! And everyone knows the world is a dangerous place and there thousands of chemicals all around and so forth and so forth.
I think its harsh to call him/her 'stoopid'. Everybody's body is unique and if he/she made a year-long effort to stop smoking I would put that in the 'super smart' category. Best of luck to the OP on your nic-free and smoke-free future!
The simple solution is to stop smoking and vaping for a couple of months and see what happens. If you feel better, don't do either. And, have a doctor checkup just to make sure nothing else is going on. Vaping might not be for everybody. There are allergic reaction to everything from air pollens to puppy dogs and cats. If it's an allergy, a visit to the allergist can reveal that. I've had an allergy test. It takes about an hour and is relatively painless. All they do is scratch your arm in 80 spots with a little stylus and a drop of test solution from each of 80 little test vials in a tray. You wait 15 minutes and they map reactions to the tray to determine which ones caused a red spot. They wipe your arms down and you are done.
I agree with DaveP. Vaping is not for everyone and the best advice is stop both and see what happens. The admin of this forum says that regularly in the oral interviews I've listened to him speak at.
I personally have quit vaping altogether this week after having gone through the step-down process with the nicotine. The absence of not being dehydrated alone is a bigger benefit than the slight nicotine craving here and there. I never did understand how I could be drinking close to 2 gallons of water a day while vaping and still felt as if I were drier than a desert.
The OP wouldn't be the first to report the symptoms he was having either. Whether they came from vaping or just quitting smoking, I couldn't tell you and I doubt a doctor, who has no clue about vaping, would know either. But Dave is right. It certainly can't hurt to stop smoking and vaping and see how you feel. In fact, it's common sense.
Ok, I see...
I stopped smoking as soon as I started vaping. I don't know, maybe I was naive enough to believe I was getting into something miraculous. When you look at the basic juice formulas, it all seems so simple it's hard to believe anyone can actually feel bad with a PV. Plus, there's no combustion. But then, a lot of people complain of this and that and they can't just be disregarded as if they were hypchondriacs talking nonsense. Yes, totally unbiased studies should be conducted, no doubts about that whatsoever.
Thank you for replying..I just started and I didn't realize there were 'common" problems people were experiencing...I fully understand by just heating something up it out gases and you inhale those chemicals---no need to burn..I always wondered about cigarette filters and the damage they could cause..I also wonder---NO I WORRY-- about the "material" in my cartidges and what chemicals I'm inhaling..
What we need is a thread..if there isn't one already..about negative health experiences from vapor..what type(dripping,cartridge,ect) because I will go back to reg cigs in an instant..and try a diff approach to quitting/switching..I was using Snus but they sort of made that too expensive. I am only one week in..I do not want to go further if there is a real danger here.
AGAIN..I AM SORRY IF I MISSED INFO OR COULDN'T READ THE WHOLE THREAD..I JUST JOINED HERE AND JUST STARTED E-CIGS.
I would agree with you, if it had actual information and not baseless hysteria. There's a deplorable lack of scientific thinking in this whole thing. One thing happening after the other doesn't mean there's a link between the two, and too many people don't seem to get that.
What we really need is some actual studies, with controls and all that. We probably won't get any, because there's no money in it. Until there are studies, I'm going to use common sense. The main ingredients are all proved to be relatively safe. The minor ingredients (flavors) are considered food safe, including for baked products. I'll avoid diacetyl, because there's compelling evidence that it could - in large quantities - create a problem when inhaled. Otherwise, I'll use my own experience as an indicator for whether I should continue vaping or not. Right now, my lungs are cleaner and clearer than they've been for a few decades. I don't lose my breath the way I used to. I don't cough. I don't wheeze when I lay down at night to sleep. As long as that keeps up, I'll keep on vaping.
I agree..we do need double blind scientific method type studies..I guess what I was thinking was ..even though it wouldn't be proof.....we could get see commonalities in such a thread..Right now all i now of is the New Zealand study but I believe that was only on the juice....I was only mildly concerned concerned about the juice but the carts and their makeup(the filler in them) and the outgassing or fumes from those materials still worry me..
I disagree that there isn't any money in this..If proven safe..I think there is an enormous amount of money to be made. Trademark your juice ..Your e-cig..ect..
Personally, and I doubt anyone would argue this, I think big tobacco is missing the boat because their motive is getting people more addicted and this IMHO is more addictive and as far as we know it is safe.
I went into this thread with one mindset--that I found a relatively safe alternative to commercial tobacco and now I'm as mixed up as I was before I started e-cigs..I thought I did my homework..but there just isn't enough info out there..
As a side note I have noticed big tobacco getting into the SNUS but it doesn't even compare to Swedish SNUS which they(big tobacco lobbying the FEDS of course) put it out of my price range..
I think the problem tends to be that people are changing several things at once, and they don't know what is caused by which (if any) change. Quitting cigarettes gives one set of reactions, and it can be very different reactions depending on how long someone smoked, how much they smoked, etc. Then you add vaping, with all the ingredients for that, any one of which a person might or might not have an allergy to. And then you get the one known side effect of vaping, dehydration, with all its own symptoms and reactions. The answer to anyone could be as simple as drink more water or don't buy juice with cinnamon flavoring, but none of us are in a position to know. And yeah, allergies could crop up after a year or more of no symptoms. My little town first saw kiwi fruit in the early 80s, and I loved it. I ate a ton of it and wanted more. And then I started coughing when I ate it, and then my tongue started to itch when I ate it, and then I coughed up a little blood after I ate it, and then my doctor told me never to eat it again, because my throat could swell shut and I'd die. I still miss kiwi fruit, and I ate it for over a year before my body decided that was enough. But allergies can be funny like that.
Alright, alright, we do need full proof unbiased studies so everybody can calm down, I've said it several times and I think it's obvious. Common sense is what we use but it may not be enough.
Speaking of which, I'm having the dry mouth symptoms for the very first time and it isnb't about VG or PG, of that I'm certain. It happened after I tried the TPA's m-type (DIY), extracted from the tobacco Tabanon plant. It's weird (they're all weird to me the first time I try them, don't mind that), it doesn't taste like a cigarette (and why would it since it hasn't been cured, doesn't have a whole load of substances and doesn't burn?), but the funny - well, not funny - thing about it is I started having a dry mouth for the very first time................
Speaking of which, I'm having the dry mouth symptoms for the very first time and it isnb't about VG or PG, of that I'm certain. It happened after I tried the TPA's m-type (DIY), extracted from the tobacco Tabanon plant. It's weird (they're all weird to me the first time I try them, don't mind that), it doesn't taste like a cigarette (and why would it since it hasn't been cured, doesn't have a whole load of substances and doesn't burn?), but the funny - well, not funny - thing about it is I started having a dry mouth for the very first time................
Yeah..a thread would be a mess and useless info..I see that now..
I agree about allergies..they can 'pop up' anytime..Something you've eaten or been exposed to your whole life..then one day--poof..you're allergic..
I will keep vaporing ..I still have 40ml of juice left ..And I love the banana one..lol..And to be honest..other than cigs..ive inhaled a lot worse stuff in my past(all of it in my past..good boy now..have been for over a decade) and for loooong periods of time..'nuff said on that.
Hopefully we get specific ingredients and some fed oversight(not regulation..or maybe regulation..idk) I would feel more comfortable buying this stuff for say Marlboro with their brand and an e-cig with the Marlboro name on it..I wonder about the solder used in the atomizers(is there lead)..i worry a bit about most everything but the juice itself.
I don't know how much snus you were using or for that matter how much you were smoking. I went from a 2-3 pack a day habit to 4 or 5 portions a day of snus with occasional vaping when the mood strikes me. The way you keep snus affordable is to buy in quantity and when the bargains are there. My last order was from Sweden around the first of the year when they had a free shipping deal for $200 orders.
That may sound like a lot, but when you figure cartons of cigarettes cost about $50 (or more), that is reasonably inexpensive. I've built my supply up for years and keep it in my freezer. I've personally saved enough to pay off my bike this year with cost savings. People on the dark side (Smokeless tobacco) are constantly posting when a good deal is available.
I was using about 10 portions a day of Thunder frosted extra stark..I smoked 2 packs a day...Now I just vape but my atomizer went out today and I'm screwed..I
need to order a new one..so..I'm back to smoking..my fault..I should have been prepared.
It's odd..It just died...no heat at all..went from working fine.. to no heat at all..oh well
At $5.50 a pack, you'd spend $154 every two weeks on smokes at two packs a day. For 40 rolls of snus you'd spend $143 from Northern without CA taxes which I couldn't find easily. At ten portions a day. that supply would last you almost 14 weeks or 7x longer than your smokes. PACT increased cost, but I see snus still as a bargain (plus I enjoy it more than I ever enjoyed smoking).
JMHO
it should also be noted that there are significant withdrawls when quitting alalogs, like shooting pains, shortness of breath, rapid heart beat, etc. Im not trying to say that your wrong or anything, but when you quit cigarettes, you not only withdrawal from the nicotine, but the chemicals as well. I felt like crap when i gave up the analogs, and at first thought also that it was the vaping, but after a month or two, all my symtoms were gone, and only came back when i tried certain juices, and now that i have my staples, and dont sample any more, I feel fine. but, your still inhaling a foriegn substance into lungs that are only made to accomodate air, so i wouldnt be surprised if sensitive people do have negative effects to vaping, and we wont really know the long term effects, untill its been long term, like 30 years or so. just my two cents.
I'll add my experience: I started vaping almost two years ago. I felt great almost immediately as I transitioned away from the tarry crap I was putting in myself with cigarettes. It was fantastic to feel so healthy, able to work out at the gym at a higher level, to hike up hills without having to take a break, the better quality of sleep, all the good stuff. The only e-liquids I vaped were VG based.
A few weeks ago, I bought some e-liquids that were 80% VG - 20% PG. Within a day I was finding my breathing was different. I was, at times, feeling like I was having some kind of mild asthma attack, as if I wasn't drawing breath efficiently. At first I thought I was catching a cold, but I had no other symptoms, just this sort of labored breathing. It would last only a few minutes at a time, but it was alarming. At the gym I'd have to consciously exhale slowly and inhale as fully as possible for a while after a set with the weights.
This went on for a week or so. I assumed it must be an allergy, because other people I know have told me they've had various symptoms from whatever's in the air this spring, including wheezing, congestion, etc. Then one day I wondered if the new e-liquids had anything to do with it, because I've never had allergies worth noting. I set the stuff aside that had the PG in it and went back to the 100% VG based liquids. Within a day: no problems breathing.
I'm not saying that the PG was causing problems or that I got some impure liquids from the seller. I do know I won't vape anything with PG again and I won't buy from that seller, if for no other reason than it seems there might be something in the stuff I recently bought that's not agreeing with me and there's no reason to continue vaping it. It's fortunate the liquids were on sale and I didn't spend much, so whatever I lose in terms of money is insignificant.
Sorry I haven't had time to read every one of the previous posts, so I don't know if anyone else has noted a difference between PG and VG based liquids.
A few weeks ago, I bought some e-liquids that were 80% VG - 20% PG. Within a day I was finding my breathing was different. I was, at times, feeling like I was having some kind of mild asthma attack, as if I wasn't drawing breath efficiently. At first I thought I was catching a cold, but I had no other symptoms, just this sort of labored breathing. It would last only a few minutes at a time, but it was alarming. At the gym I'd have to consciously exhale slowly and inhale as fully as possible for a while after a set with the weights.
This went on for a week or so. I assumed it must be an allergy, because other people I know have told me they've had various symptoms from whatever's in the air this spring, including wheezing, congestion, etc. Then one day I wondered if the new e-liquids had anything to do with it, because I've never had allergies worth noting. I set the stuff aside that had the PG in it and went back to the 100% VG based liquids. Within a day: no problems breathing.
I'm not saying that the PG was causing problems or that I got some impure liquids from the seller. I do know I won't vape anything with PG again and I won't buy from that seller, if for no other reason than it seems there might be something in the stuff I recently bought that's not agreeing with me and there's no reason to continue vaping it. It's fortunate the liquids were on sale and I didn't spend much, so whatever I lose in terms of money is insignificant.
Sorry I haven't had time to read every one of the previous posts, so I don't know if anyone else has noted a difference between PG and VG based liquids.
I pay about $2.75 shipped for imported Marlboros..But I do get your point-I would still pay less if purchased in bulk..
But I got a joye 510 kit and I am now a full time vaper and this certainly is the cheapest..
Totally understand and if vaping does the trick, just make sure you've got your supplies. OT on those cig shipments. Be careful, I've heard of three people that got caught in PA that were sent bills over $1000 for uncollected taxes on shipped in cigs.
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