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I read a scientific paper, long ago, where anthropologists had analyzed bones from some old timey population. I can't remember what time period it was from (some sort of primitave cave people, I want to say). They found a high concentration of mercury in their remains and had pretty good evidence it was from their fires. When we romanticize the past we tend to disregard stuff like that.
Start a party thead, and then you'll see.
This isn't one.
Like the battery safety topics, I consider discussion about the safety of substances we are inhaling, and what we are inhaling them off of, serious conversation.
As smokers, we all spent a lot of years in denial about what we were doing to our bodies. If my unwillingness to go down that same path again with vaping ( even if it feels good emotionally to do so) makes me a party pooper, then I"m okay with that label.
I'm definitely not out for "likes" but I do like putting to rest certain myths that make no sense.
I think this pretty well summarizes my point...
I doubt we are in disagreement, but you can correct me if I'm wrong.
Concentrations of what one breathes in are an important factor. It is one thing to breathe the air in a city; while another to directly inhale the exhaust from a diesel bus by sticking one's face near the exhaust pipe and breathing in deeply- over and over again.
If the air quality capture devices at work were placed directly over thermoplastic extruders, before the filtration vents, OSHA would shut us down, and many of us would be long dead. Vaping is directly inhaling what is in the e-liquid- a combination of ingredients, none of which are specifically made to be vaporized and inhaled.
I won't fool myself into think vaping is completely safe. Is it safer than smoking? Yes. Is it safer than the air I breathe in at work? Don't know. The EPA and OSHA say the air at work is well within safe tolerances. They haven't weighed in yet on e-liquid.
If the air quality capture devices at work were placed directly over thermoplastic extruders, before the filtration vents, OSHA would shut us down, and many of us would be long dead. Vaping is directly inhaling what is in the e-liquid- a combination of ingredients, none of which are specifically made to be vaporized and inhaled.
I won't fool myself into think vaping is completely safe. Is it safer than smoking? Yes. Is it safer than the air I breathe in at work? Don't know. The EPA and OSHA say the air at work is well within safe tolerances. They haven't weighed in yet on e-liquid.
I doubt we are in disagreement, but you can correct me if I'm wrong.
I never disagree with you.
I just approach things differently, but we are both ending up at the same place though, I mean, we are both vaping.
I guess you can call me a |vaper-with-reservations."
oh wait, I do disagree with you on some things, I did not like DK TAB.
Well, I don't like it as much as I used to anymore...I did not like DK TAB.
So I will gladly let that slide.
Hence my saying not all of the gunk was good for them. I had to read a load of anthropology papers in college, made me go cross-eyed. There is plenty of evidence that the smoke, among other things, had an impact on some of them. Little confused about where romanticizing the past comes from.
To my knowledge it's been 10 years and no Vapeing deaths, I'll further suggest that with today's technology we have a clue as to long term effects, without the actual long term.
Most work environments studies for clean air are polished or the margins are changed to keep us in the work place, ergo factories can still have asbestos in its construction, as long as its not disturbed, yeah ok that should fix it, PS Canada is one of the biggest manufacturers of asbestos in the world, etc etc etc.
My employer says the air I breathe is within exceptible levels, and my government is ok with this because I'm paying taxes via working.
No way is the government gonna shut down industries cause of air quality, lol.
But Vapeing sure why not, unless it can generate a billion dollars in taxes then it well be ok just like cigarettes.
I'm not suggesting the liquids we inhale are perfectly safe, I'm just throwing out a couple views.
Most work environments studies for clean air are polished or the margins are changed to keep us in the work place, ergo factories can still have asbestos in its construction, as long as its not disturbed, yeah ok that should fix it, PS Canada is one of the biggest manufacturers of asbestos in the world, etc etc etc.
My employer says the air I breathe is within exceptible levels, and my government is ok with this because I'm paying taxes via working.
No way is the government gonna shut down industries cause of air quality, lol.
But Vapeing sure why not, unless it can generate a billion dollars in taxes then it well be ok just like cigarettes.
I'm not suggesting the liquids we inhale are perfectly safe, I'm just throwing out a couple views.
We are in the process of shutting down one of our factories in Guelph because they could not meet our safety or worker's rights standards. Our inspectors found the government guidelines and worker safety standards to be 'appalling'- in his words.
The Romans created and oversaw a thriving civilization in which most of the urban populations drank water from lead pipes for hundreds of years.
The Romans created and oversaw a thriving civilization in which most of the urban populations drank water from lead pipes for hundreds of years.
Considering everything they did to everybody else, served them right. They were darned clever though.
I totally agree DC and I've had the same thought every time I've read or heard it. The problem with this saying is it's too simplistic and does not take into account that our lungs have evolved to handle all manner of airborne particles successfully.
Yup, this is the crux of it.
We're approaching ten years of vaping and all looks good so far. The latest research is looking good too. I'm not going to sweat this one. In the end, time will tell just like with a lot of other new things out there.
In the meantime I can think of about ten other really silly sayings I hear all the time ...
From what I gather, the quoted viewpoint is both accurate and inaccurate. Even highly hostile analyses of firsthand vapor showed no cause for concern, according to Burstyn's study -- so on the one hand, your drawing a distinction between the ambient, polluted air in a city and the exhaust from the tailpipe of a bus isn't valid; when we say that the vapor falls within the approved air-toxicity standards for workplaces, that is literally true, not just for bystanders, but also for the vaper himself.
But the main thrust of your argument may very well be right. According to the Scientific Director for CASAA, the most likely cause for unforeseen health concerns down the road lies with the two primary components of vapor, PG and VG -- which, perhaps ironically, aren't regarded as toxic:
"It is worth expanding on the observation about propylene glycol and glycerin a bit: While there is no affirmative reason to believe that the level of exposure experienced by vapers is hazardous, we have never before had a situation where millions of people had such a high level of exposure. Thus it is worth gathering data on what happens, just to make sure there is no small subtle effect. This contrasts with the levels of the much-hyped contaminants, which pose no concern at all. It is also important to remember that this refers to the vaper herself; there is no such caution for bystanders, who have far far lower levels of exposure."
(Emphasis mine.)
So the upshot is that there's no good reason to worry on the whole, but if you wish to look for things to worry about, worry not about contaminants; worry instead about the sheer amounts of heretofore-benign compounds we're inhaling. For my part, I think the most rational course is to treat vaping as very nearly harmless given the evidence at hand. Or to paraphrase Carl Phillips' famous conclusion, "99% less harmful than tobacco cigarettes, plus or minus 1%" (which means it could be 0% harmful.)
That's harm reduction, all right.
I have seen cans of it for sale in stores, try Ebay. You can also have a hospital strap an oxygen mask on you. Those things suck. Always felt like a dried worm by the time they took them off though. Hawaii's nice, just don't stand down wind when the volcano burps.
I'm so sorry DC2, I keep derailing your thread and it's a good one. Forgive me, please.
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I'm so sorry DC2, I keep derailing your thread and it's a good one. Forgive me, please.
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