i have been giving this direct inhaling thing some thought..

[trog100]

first thing lets assume we start off with a good e cig that works well.. something like manual battery 510.. plenty of vapour.. and new-ish..

so why does direct inhaling seem very unpleasant to me burns my throat and make me cough badly.. in other words i cant do it... what the difference.. ??

lets take the two stage into the mouth and then into the lungs method first..

what happens..

so okay the capacity of the mouth is much smaller than the capacity of the lungs..

so i take a mouthful of high strength pretty much undiluted vapour into my mouth... then i breath this high strength vapour into my lungs.. at first its undiluted neat vapour .. i assume this is what gives me the initial throat hit or kick we all talk about..

after a very short time the neat vapour gets diluted with a large quantity of normal air.. the throat hit only occurs during the first initial intake of neat vapour.. after that what i am breathing in is very diluted vapour.. in short i end up with lungs full of air mixed in with a mouthfull of vapour.. or smoke in the case of real tobbaco..

this much diluted vapour (or smoke) gets exhaled.. this kind of negates the secondhand smoke argument to me but i never have much gone for that..

now i am reasonably sure most smokers smoke this way.. most but not all..

so lets move on to the less common direct breathing in of the neat smoke method of smoking..

in theory using this method the smoker could end up with lungs full of high strength pretty much undiluted neat tobacco smoke or e vapour.. there does not seem any limit except the restrictions imposed by the time spent breathing the neat smoke in and the air hole in whatever is being breathed thru..

so a direct inhaler must impose their own restrictions.. lungs full of neat undiluted e vapour or real smoke would probably kill someone.. a pure guess but i recon it would me..

so the basic difference is a simple one.. a mouth filler is limited to what can be held in the mouth.. the amount of smoke that ends up in the lungs at any one time.. lets say a one to twenty mix of smoke and air..

a person who directly breaths in neat smoke has no such inbuilt air smoke ratio restriction built in.. they could in theory end up with a one to one air smoke ratio in the lungs.. ????

i think too much... he he he

trog

 

[JerseyGirl]

Too much for YOU, maybe...

J/K!

In all honestly now, I'm 5 feet tall. I weigh 90 pounds. I've been direct inhaling for my entire smoking career and I've never come close to OD-ing. I used to go through an entire pack of cigarettes in 3 hours at a bar, and the worst I'd feel was a bit of a hangover the next day.

So I really don't think that direct inhaling is inherently more dangerous than mouth inhaling. In both cases it's gonna come down to user error.

But anyway, glad you posted this - I've been trying to figure out your "double mouth inhale" since last night!

 

[dedmonwakin]

Only thing that concerns me of direct inhaling is not OD'ing or a concentrated amount of nicotine which I don't think is far different from direct or indirect inhaling. It's the massive amount of vapor possibly settling in my lungs through direct inhaling.

When I direct inhale to the lungs, less vapor is exhaled unlike mouth inhaling. Surely this is common with everyone who does or tries both. This only occurs through ecig vaping. Real cigarettes don't produce a significant difference to me.

Now why does this concern me?

Try this. Slowly exhale your vapor into a cup of your choice. Watch as it sits in your cup for an extended period of time and even longer when there is little air movement that disturbs the vapor in the cup.

Now, try this with cigarette smoke. It quickly dissipates out of the cup without minute air disturbances.

Now, rub your finger on the inside of each glass. The vapor glass has an oily residue, and the cigarette glass has tar residue(you may need a napkin to see the color)

Regardless of the debate that PG/VG or what ever is not that harmful to us.....everyone should know that too much of anything even if it's safe becomes harmful.

 

[MacDaddy]

Since I started smoking, I've only used the mouth method, no direct inhaling for me, for analog cigarettes at least.

Now, I'm from the Middle East, and here the Water pipe or Hookah, whatever you guys call it, is practically everywhere, In special coffee shop hangouts, where you can drink tea or coffee and order a hookah.

I direct inhale on this sucker, you just cannot do it any other way, that's the way we do it, and possibly everyone who does use it. On the other hand, direct inhaling an analog just seems odd to me, I'm not used to it. I just tried it now with an analog (haven't got my e-cig yet!) It's not bad, similar to a hookah but really harsh on the throat.

I will try direct inhaling when I get my e-cig, but I don't think I'll like it, because I'll smoke it like a cig and not a hookah.

But you know what, to each his\her own.

 

[Lalesa]

Only thing that concerns me of direct inhaling is not OD'ing or a concentrated amount of nicotine which I don't think is far different from direct or indirect inhaling. It's the massive amount of vapor possibly settling in my lungs through direct inhaling.

When I direct inhale to the lungs, less vapor is exhaled unlike mouth inhaling. Surely this is common with everyone who does or tries both. This only occurs through ecig vaping. Real cigarettes don't produce a significant difference to me.

Now why does this concern me?

Try this. Slowly exhale your vapor into a cup of your choice. Watch as it sits in your cup for an extended period of time and even longer when there is little air movement that disturbs the vapor in the cup.

Now, try this with cigarette smoke. It quickly dissipates out of the cup without minute air disturbances.

Now, rub your finger on the inside of each glass. The vapor glass has an oily residue, and the cigarette glass has tar residue(you may need a napkin to see the color)

Regardless of the debate that PG/VG or what ever is not that harmful to us.....everyone should know that too much of anything even if it's safe becomes harmful.

Ded, I took a crystal low ball glass and did as you said with the vapor (a non-inhaled puff). Being that I have air movement here at the computer, (near a vent) it quickly left the cup. There was no residue, not surprisingly. Doing it again, then putting my hand over the cup to keep the vapor from escaping for a full minute (longer than anyone would hold an inhale I would guess) There is still no residue in the glass. Nothing smeared when I swiped my finger in it or wiped with a paper towel. The glass is still clear. I can't/won't do the analog comparison but just from experience I would think there would be a residue. Just my findings.
Sooo.... what cha smokin' over there? LOL (jK)

 

[hxj]

Ded, I took a crystal low ball glass and did as you said with the vapor (a non-inhaled puff). Being that I have air movement here at the computer, (near a vent) it quickly left the cup. There was no residue, not surprisingly. Doing it again, then putting my hand over the cup to keep the vapor from escaping for a full minute (longer than anyone would hold an inhale I would guess) There is still no residue in the glass. Nothing smeared when I swiped my finger in it or wiped with a paper towel. The glass is still clear. I can't/won't do the analog comparison but just from experience I would think there would be a residue. Just my findings.
Sooo.... what cha smokin' over there? LOL (jK)

I've heard that VG leaves the oily residue and PG doesn't, but I haven't tried to test it. It is a bit of a concern for me, because PG messes me up a bit (currently vaping Johnson Creek's "reduced-PG" mixes), but I'd like to switch to all-VG if it works for me. Not sure about how I feel about it if it leaves this residue, however.

 

[Hangtime]

I just hope that the VG I'm using doesn't mess up my computer like the old analogs did. I've been vaping for about 2 months now and I'm finally starting to hack out the tar from my lungs more than ever. If VG was leaving a residue in my lungs, it isn't stopping the tar from coming out.

 

[stevo_tdo]

Dedmon, I believe you would get a similar residue in your mouth and or lungs when people do the stealth vape. You know, hold it in as long as you can and then exhale with hardly any vapor. A lot of people do this when out and about. I sure don't, the ecig wasn't designed to do that and any studies on the inhalation of pg being safe probably didn't involve this scenario.

 

[Lalesa]

I've heard that VG leaves the oily residue and PG doesn't, but I haven't tried to test it. It is a bit of a concern for me, because PG messes me up a bit (currently vaping Johnson Creek's "reduced-PG" mixes), but I'd like to switch to all-VG if it works for me. Not sure about how I feel about it if it leaves this residue, however.

I couldn't vape full PG formulas at first. I had to cut everything with VG for about a month. Then I slowly cut less and less with VG and now I'm fine with PG formulas. Mostly my reactions were just ummm... flatulence related

Now, as soon as I use any of my JC liquids, I get phlegmy immediatley. So I don't know whats up with that. I also get a kind of oily coating on the roof of my mouth. No doubt for me that VG formulas would leave a residue in a glass.

I found I didn't really care for their flavors too much anyway. Just personal preference here - nothing against JC or the whoe new/old formula drama. I just don't care for how sweet they are.

 

[Chief-A-Lot]

I was at a little get together the other night. There were about 10 people there mostly smokers. My girl friend and I were vaping as usual and of course everyone wanted to know about it. We passed our PV's around with simple instructions and away everyone puffed. The thing I found extremely interesting was 1) they were trying to hit it like a "J" and 2) were keeping it in their lungs like one as well. I only had one person in the whole group to "catching on" to the actual essence of vaping and I pulled out my spare 901 and he vaped all night with us as the rest continued to smoke. Not that I cared, but I think that mouth to lung is (and of course this in my opinion) the best/proper way to use a PV.

As for inhaling an analog straight to your lungs seems borderline rediculious to me and I really dont think I know/knew anyone that did that... Now as for the wacky tobaccy was a completely different story...

Thought I would share.

 

[yoshimi]

I'm beginning to think that "alternate substances" must be really cheap in the uk, everyone I know smokes them just the same as they would a cigarette, with no concern at all for "wastage".

Having said that I was always confused with the level to which american films show alternate substances being smoked down to, I about weed myself when I watched the big labowski and saw he had it on a pin...throw it away and roll another one!

 

[trog100]

well just to make sure we aint missing the point.. one mouthful of neat as possible vapour or smoke goes into the lungs at most with the normal mouth first inhaler.. the smoke fresh air ratio at a guess would be say 10 parts fresh air one part smoke..

now what happens with the direct breather type.. i assume nobody wants a lung full of pure undiluted smoke.. so do they time their draw then breath in fresh air or what..

a hookah is not the same.. the smoke is not as dense as that received from a cigarrete.. a hookah would be like smoking a cig with a hole in the side..

smoke is unburned particles mixed with xxxx amount of air.. cigarette smoke is very dense with minimum air.. this is what gives the throat bite which in reality is the beginnings of a cough.. the full cough is prevented by the following fresh being drawn in after the initial pure smoke goes down the throat..

when i try direct inhaling this fresh air is not there.. the pure dense smoke keeps on slowly coming until i cough.. this all make sense to me.. my lungs can only tolerate so much pure undiluted smoke in one go..

as i said somewhere else e cig vapour is worse than real smoke for making me cough if i try and take in too much in one go..

basically we are talking the density of the smoke being taken in not the amount..... weak e cigs produce no throat kick nether do weak real cigs.. at least not for me they dont..

folks often ask what causes the throat kick and why sometimes it isnt there..

first i think it needs dense vapour to hit the throat in a rush.. then a follow up of fresh air to stop the full blown cough which is what i think the throat kick is the beginnings of..

so with a mouth inhale i first take in a mouthful of pure undiluted smoke.. then i breath in.. this dense charge of pure smoke hits the throat and lungs in a rush producing the throat kick... after that its all simply fresh air to fill my lungs and spread the smoke around..

when i direct inhale i slowly (slowly cos it cant be done quickly) take in pure undiluted smoke.. it slowly enters the throat and lungs until i stop slowly breathing in.... i get no throat kick simply a burning sensation followed by a cough if i keep taking the smoke in for too long..

am i about right with these two descriptions of the two methods.. ???

trog

 

[googled]

I just tried vaping pure pg and pure vg and didnt get any noticable throat hit from either, even direct inhaling. Pure PG tastes to me like ice-cream wafers by the way lol.
I've always considered throat hit comes from the nicotine, heat on high power devices and mostly from the additives, I'm sure I read somewhere that pepper was used to increase throat hit by some suppliers.

 

[JerseyGirl]

I'm beginning to think that "alternate substances" must be really cheap in the uk, everyone I know smokes them just the same as they would a cigarette, with no concern at all for "wastage".

Having said that I was always confused with the level to which american films show alternate substances being smoked down to, I about weed myself when I watched the big labowski and saw he had it on a pin...throw it away and roll another one!

LOL... You may be right about that. I have no idea about the situation in the UK, but here in the US we don't waste anything. Most of the bobby pins and tweezers in my house have done double-duty at one point or another.

now what happens with the direct breather type.. i assume nobody wants a lung full of pure undiluted smoke.. so do they time their draw then breath in fresh air or what..

I think I mentioned this on the other thread, but when I take a drag on my ecig, I don't make a completely airtight seal with my lips. So some fresh air does get in at the corners of my mouth, along with the vapor. Possibly even the same ratio you're taking in when you mouth inhale, I have no idea.

For me, the advantage is that I can take a much bigger drag by inhaling directly to my lungs than I can by mouth inhaling. I can only "fit" about 3 seconds worth of vapor in my mouth at once. So a simple 8 second direct inhale becomes impossible with mouth inhaling, or really complicated.

I will point out that if I COULD direct inhale without getting ANY air mixed with my vapor, I definitely would. I just find the draw off my 510 is slightly slower than I like, unless I let some air in at the same time (or I'm using a brand new atomizer). Otherwise my drags take too long.

folks often ask what causes the throat kick and why sometimes it isnt there..

first i think it needs dense vapour to hit the throat in a rush.. then a follow up of fresh air to stop the full blown cough which is what i think the throat kick is the beginnings of..

I dunno about this. Like I said, I don't cough when I smoke or vape. With some liquids, I definitely get a throat kick. With some, I don't. I inhale all of them in the same way, using the same equipment, so I'm not sure that has anything to do with it. I see more of a difference based on nicotine strength, especially when I'm using my Menthol liquids.

 

[RenaissancePuffer]

That sounds right to me Trog. Mouth inhalers are going to get a diluted vapor whereas lung inhalers are going to get a much thicker vapor. All of this is really dependant on many different factors though: Voltage of PV, speed in which you draw the vapor from the atomizer, time of draw, time of fresh air breath to inhale the mouth vapor, number of draws of vapor before exhaling, etc, etc.

I don't think there is any danger either way you do it.

As far as the residues from the PG or VG, they both break down into the bloodstream the same way. I thought I read that PG breaks down into a sugar alcohol?

PG and VG are used both externally and internally, I don't think there would be an inherit danger to using them, as you said, too much of anything is bad for you. I assume a fair bit of the PG or VG is exhaled judging by the density of exhaled vapor.

Here's an article about PG from the CDC.
ATSDR - Public Health Statement: Propylene Glycol

According to the World Health Organization, the acceptable dietary intake of propylene glycol is 25 mg of propylene glycol for every kilogram (kg) of body weight.

I'm guessing the average adult male is in the neighborhood of 200lbs in the US, so that's about 2500mg of 100% PG within 48 hours. If my math is correct, for the average adult male in the US, that's about 2.4 grams of pure PG within 48 hours, to maintain the acceptable dietary intake.

Dekang liquid contains ~75% PG, take out whatever is exhaled, I am guessing you would need to vape quite a bit to go above the acceptable dietary intake, even accounting the 48 hour time frame for PG to break down in the body.

Crude math here, but a 30ml dekang bottle (empty) is roughly 8 grams. with 30ml of liquid it's 38 grams. 2.4ml of dekang e-liquid with 75% PG, so that's about 3.0ml if completely consumed (no exhaled vapor) over 48 hour period.

I'm not a mathematician or scientist, so this is all just crude estimates

 

[kc0cmp]

I was at a little get together the other night. There were about 10 people there mostly smokers. My girl friend and I were vaping as usual and of course everyone wanted to know about it. We passed our PV's around with simple instructions and away everyone puffed. The thing I found extremely interesting was 1) they were trying to hit it like a "J" and 2) were keeping it in their lungs like one as well. I only had one person in the whole group to "catching on" to the actual essence of vaping and I pulled out my spare 901 and he vaped all night with us as the rest continued to smoke. Not that I cared, but I think that mouth to lung is (and of course this in my opinion) the best/proper way to use a PV.

As for inhaling an analog straight to your lungs seems borderline rediculious to me and I really dont think I know/knew anyone that did that... Now as for the wacky tobaccy was a completely different story...

Thought I would share.

22 years ago when i first started smoking analogs, I did this once to see what would happen...it was a very unfriendly experience. Why anyone would try to breathe in through a cig is a mystery.

The reason mouth inhaling got started, in my opinion, is that the smoke is shot down the throat (where it hits and produces a violent reaction to a non smoker trying to smoke) and into the lungs where it can do the most good (while doing the most harm).

Learning to smoke analogs is learning to defeat this reflex to cough/gag/die when you suck that noxious substance into your lungs...and at 22 years, i learned my lesson well.

Direct inhale (breathing in *through* the cig) seems kinda pointless with any product, be it PV or analog. Holding it in as long as possible seems even less logical, and reeks of another analog i can think of :/

Best to stick with the manner it was designed to be used in my opinion..particularly with PG, or with overheated PEG (which gets ugly if run too hot, say in a manual 510 that was preheated too long)..cause you might just cough up that lung you were threatening to cough up on analogs with no warning haha.

 

[JerseyGirl]

The reason mouth inhaling got started, in my opinion, is that the smoke is shot down the throat (where it hits and produces a violent reaction to a non smoker trying to smoke) and into the lungs where it can do the most good (while doing the most harm).

When you direct inhale, the smoke ALSO goes down your throat and into the lungs. So what would be the benefit of mouth inhaling?

Direct inhale (breathing in *through* the cig) seems kinda pointless with any product, be it PV or analog. Holding it in as long as possible seems even less logical, and reeks of another analog i can think of :/

Why would direct inhaling be pointless? The whole purpose of smoking is to inhale the smoke, thereby absorbing nicotine into the bloodstream. (Note that unlike with cigars or pipes, cigarette smoke MUST be inhaled for the nicotine to be absorbed into your bloodstream, so holding the smoke in your mouth has no effect.)

Therefore, I'd say that direct inhaling is MORE efficient than mouth inhaling, if the purpose is to transfer nicotine into your system. And holding it in seems perfectly logical, since it gives our lungs more time to absorb the nicotine before the smoke is exhaled. (Although it looks kinda dumb, with a PV or a cigarette, lol.)

Best to stick with the manner it was designed to be used in my opinion..

That's funny - in this whole 2-day conversation about inhaling, you're the first person I've seen claim that PVs were designed to be used one way or the other. Are you basing that claim on anything? Other than the fact that you happen to be a mouth inhaler yourself?

 

[RenaissancePuffer]

I started trying out the mouth inhale method, I just pull the vapor into my cheeks for about 5 seconds from the PV, then pull the vapor down into my lungs. Throat hit is nice Flavor seems to be a bit weak though compared to the direct draw into the lungs.

Seems the nicotine is also a bit more intense when using a direct draw method, I don't know if this is due to a longer draw, or a more concentrated draw.

I like both ways, but its interesting the throat hit all at once from the mouth inhale versus the throat hit build-up from the direct draw.

 

[DC2]

Only thing that concerns me of direct inhaling is not OD'ing or a concentrated amount of nicotine which I don't think is far different from direct or indirect inhaling. It's the massive amount of vapor possibly settling in my lungs through direct inhaling.

When I direct inhale to the lungs, less vapor is exhaled unlike mouth inhaling. Surely this is common with everyone who does or tries both. This only occurs through ecig vaping. Real cigarettes don't produce a significant difference to me.

Now why does this concern me?

Try this. Slowly exhale your vapor into a cup of your choice. Watch as it sits in your cup for an extended period of time and even longer when there is little air movement that disturbs the vapor in the cup.

Now, try this with cigarette smoke. It quickly dissipates out of the cup without minute air disturbances.

Now, rub your finger on the inside of each glass. The vapor glass has an oily residue, and the cigarette glass has tar residue(you may need a napkin to see the color)

Regardless of the debate that PG/VG or what ever is not that harmful to us.....everyone should know that too much of anything even if it's safe becomes harmful.

Good points.

As a direct lung inhaler of cigarettes, I am trying to convert over to mouth inhaling for my electronic cigarette. I am trying to do this to increase vapor and flavor, and decrease throat hit, all of which are desired in my case and expected outcomes of mouth inhaling.

I suspect, however, that I will get less nicotine that way, and may have to up my nicotine level if I experience any withdrawal symptoms.

And everybody is always talking about the coughing going away, and the stuffy nose going away. But I still have both, although far less pronounced. And this is even though it has been over two weeks with no cigarettes after six weeks with only one cigarette per day.

I think my continued congestion issues are due to direct (lung) inhaling.
I think I am getting a good amount of goop down there still.

But at least whatever that goop is, it is far better than it being tar and crap.

 

[src97]

i find this thread fascinating.

when i smoke analogs i always directly inhaled into my lungs. basically the taste of a real cigarette is so disgusting you couldnt convince me to hold the smoke in my mouth.

the first time i used an e cig (510) i inhaled like i did my analogs and it made me cough. tried a couple more times the same way, and it wasnt working for me.

now i cant inhale directly no matter how hard i try, i hold the vapor in my mouth then lightly take it into my lungs. benefits of this method: taste the flavor and i get the visual reward of seeing lots of fog on the exhale.

Fog production on exhale is this sick thrill for me, that i never even remotely cared about that when smoking analogs. actually we would make fun of smokers who exhaled plumes of smoke because they weren't completely inhaling!

and still for the occasional analog...i go right back into direct inhales.

(as an aside my gf hates the 510 because shes always coughing with it..she has a hard time doing the mouth inhale. i got her the 401 and she directly inhales that ...now that i think about it I do too. it has more of the feel of an analog when taking a hit.)

maybe the whole thing is model dependent? anyone else notice that?