What in the world is wrong with simplicity?
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Funny...I wouldn't recommend anyone buy a DSE901.
I guess that's why we have choices...
BTW, I wouldn't recommend anyone to buy a poorly constructed wooden mod either...
Now a nicely constructed wooden mod...highly recommend...
Is there any reason (other than a hangup some might have about cigarette-shaped PVs to start) why your new 3.7v box mod is any more intimidating, or any less newbie-friendly, than a 510 or an eGo/Riva?
To someone who is new of course there is something different! I had no idea what a box mod was.. I had no idea what all I would need. I do now of course.. I knew when I ordered this that I already had attys to fit it. When I was new I didn't understand what else I would need to buy. Maybe I was dumb but this is the way it was. I bought the 510 because it said that it was a complete kit, it came with everything I needed to start right away. I didn't want to have to piecemeal everything. It was simple. I'm sure that if someone showed me and gave me a 5v box mod I would have liked it but no one did.
I was and still am VERY appreciative of all the advice people have given me.. it's been wonderful to have so much help and support.
To someone who is new of course there is something different! I had no idea what a box mod was.. I had no idea what all I would need. I do now of course.. I knew when I ordered this that I already had attys to fit it. When I was new I didn't understand what else I would need to buy. Maybe I was dumb but this is the way it was. I bought the 510 because it said that it was a complete kit, it came with everything I needed to start right away. I didn't want to have to piecemeal everything. It was simple. I'm sure that if someone showed me and gave me a 5v box mod I would have liked it but no one did.
I was and still am VERY appreciative of all the advice people have given me.. it's been wonderful to have so much help and support.
That's a very good point and I didn't think of that. While I have seen box mod "kits" for sale (to include a couple of batts and a charger), I don't think I have ever seen a box mod "starter kit" that truly includes everything a new vaper would need.
TomB used to sell the Monkeyboxx as a complete kit.
He included batteries, charger, atty, DT, etc...
It didn't really seem to matter though.
In the new members forum it's always ego this and KR8 that....
Funny. If I were a noob, I'd ask you if you're willing to refund my money if I decide that I don't like vaping that expensive mod you recommended I buy when I could have tried another model for 70%-90% less.
I'm not sure when you started vaping, or if you ever vaped a 901, but I can't imagine that if you did, you'd be hesitant to recommend it to a noob. Like I said, I've been vaping them for 2 years. More vapor than I ever got smoke from an analog, still using the original 2 batteries I got with my starter kit, I get 4 hours a charge when I charge them the right way and have only had to use 12 attys, and 7 of the attys I thought were dead, I resurrected this past week after learning of a kick ... cleaning method.
I don't think you can overlook price and simplicity (even if it's just appears something's simpler) when you're making suggestions to noobs. And that's what this thread is about. But somehow, the mod fanboys decided to use it as another opportunity to beat their chests about how much better their mods are. We get that. They're better. That point is conceded. Now, put yourself in the shoes of a noob, whose not sure of they want to even start vaping.
I'll make you bet. You get your best box mod, I'll bring my DSE 901, and the two of us will stand on a busy corner and see who can sell the most of their model to folks who have never vaped. Of course, full disclosure as to price would be required.
If the goal is to get folks to start vaping, and keep vaping, you first have to get them to start. A high price tag and a discussion about modifications, voltage, wattage, low resistance, high resistance, dripping, etc. is a bad way to go about that. That's just my opinion.
That's a very good point and I didn't think of that. While I have seen box mod "kits" for sale (to include a couple of batts and a charger), I don't think I have ever seen a box mod "starter kit" that truly includes everything a new vaper would need.
I didn't mean to sound snappy jfoobar (or maybe I did.. my husband and I had just had a little spat and it carried over to my response LOL) I needed a starter set. I was confused/overwhelmed by all the talk of different atomizers and connectors and such. The 510 starter set was complete and simple and I'm so glad that I bought it.. even though I don't use it now. It is what I've let my friends borrow for a couple weeks to see if they want to switch to vaping.
If there is one thing I learned from my phyc class that I had to take for nursing (other than A Clockwork Orange is a really disturbing movie) is that there are 2 ways that people learn.. some learn better in pieces and the rest of us have to be able to see the whole picture before the lightbulb comes on.
It's all so simple to me NOW but when I was first getting started I was hopelessly lost in all the talk of 510s.. 901s.. kr808s.. volts.. low resistance attys.. passthroughs.. dripping... cartomizers... bottom feeders...( I still don't quite know what a "MAP" is) that when something jumped out at me and shouted SIMPLE AND COMPLETE.. I bought it.
I didn't mean to sound snappy jfoobar (or maybe I did.. my husband and I had just had a little spat and it carried over to my response LOL) I needed a starter set. I was confused/overwhelmed by all the talk of different atomizers and connectors and such. The 510 starter set was complete and simple and I'm so glad that I bought it.. even though I don't use it now. It is what I've let my friends borrow for a couple weeks to see if they want to switch to vaping.
If there is one thing I learned from my phyc class that I had to take for nursing (other than A Clockwork Orange is a really disturbing movie) is that there are 2 ways that people learn.. some learn better in pieces and the rest of us have to be able to see the whole picture before the lightbulb comes on.
It's all so simple to me NOW but when I was first getting started I was hopelessly lost in all the talk of 510s.. 901s.. kr808s.. volts.. low resistance attys.. passthroughs.. dripping... cartomizers... bottom feeders...( I still don't quite know what a "MAP" is) that when something jumped out at me and shouted SIMPLE AND COMPLETE.. I bought it.
The truth is that I wish I had come here earlier. I wasted way too much money in the beginning searching for the right PV for me. I assumed that they were all similar in model and shape from the limited information I found elsewhere. I spend over a thousand dollars buying starter kits from companies that I wish I had never purchased from. I do not have a Provari, a Darwin, or a Saber Touch. If I had come here first, I might have started off with a better PV. Of the PVs I've purchased- the only ones I enjoy are my pen style and Ego-T. If I had started here two months ago... maybe a suggestion for one of the nicer models would have been better. As it stands... the smaller models that I wasted money on will just sit in a box unless I can convince someone around here to buy them from me. I can't ethically do that though because they are a waste of money. I can never go back to pre-filled cartridges and simplicity after enjoying liquids.
Sometimes newbies want simplicity, but those newbies will specify that in their post description. Most of them will go on their quest to find the best model and will appreciate input from the users that will give them the technical details. I'll probably buy myself a Darwin or Provari for Christmas as I can't justify the purchase after all of the money I've wasted in the past few months on small modeled poor performance starter kits.
Sometimes newbies want simplicity, but those newbies will specify that in their post description. Most of them will go on their quest to find the best model and will appreciate input from the users that will give them the technical details. I'll probably buy myself a Darwin or Provari for Christmas as I can't justify the purchase after all of the money I've wasted in the past few months on small modeled poor performance starter kits.
The truth is that I wish I had come here earlier. I wasted way too much money in the beginning searching for the right PV for me. I assumed that they were all similar in model and shape from the limited information I found elsewhere. I spend over a thousand dollars buying starter kits from companies that I wish I had never purchased from. I do not have a Provari, a Darwin, or a Saber Touch. If I had come here first, I might have started off with a better PV. Of the PVs I've purchased- the only ones I enjoy are my pen style and Ego-T. If I had started here two months ago... maybe a suggestion for one of the nicer models would have been better. As it stands... the smaller models that I wasted money on will just sit in a box unless I can convince someone around here to buy them from me. I can't ethically do that though because they are a waste of money. I can never go back to pre-filled cartridges and simplicity after enjoying liquids.
Sometimes newbies want simplicity, but those newbies will specify that in their post description. Most of them will go on their quest to find the best model and will appreciate input from the users that will give them the technical details. I'll probably buy myself a Darwin or Provari for Christmas as I can't justify the purchase after all of the money I've wasted in the past few months on small modeled poor performance starter kits.
You just summed it all up right there...
Simplicity does not equal satisfaction.
Lower priced entry units may be complete and easy, but they can be a waste for many people.
There are a lot of people who waste money on complete kits, only to kick themselves when they find out there is something better out there. I'm happy for someone who can vape for two years on one kit, while using the same attys he bought with the kit. Most do not have that experience. The frustration with finding a satisfactory vape can end their chance of vaping success altogether. I wasn't always into the mods. I wasted a decent amount of money before I bought a mod. Giving good information is important. Just because someone doesn't have the patience to try and understand the answer, once they asked the question isn't a reason to dumb down the answer to the question. Low resistance, high resistance, voltage, thread types, etc are all important factors when buying a pv. Many newbs don't do any research at all. They just make a post asking what everyone recommends. Then they get 50 answers and say it's too confusing. Well DUH!!!
Heres a box mod starter kit, but I don't think its likely it has an ad campaign on the level of blu
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...harger-30-free-shipping-plus-20-ml-juice.html
The truth is that I wish I had come here earlier. I wasted way too much money in the beginning searching for the right PV for me. I assumed that they were all similar in model and shape from the limited information I found elsewhere. I spend over a thousand dollars buying starter kits from companies that I wish I had never purchased from. I do not have a Provari, a Darwin, or a Saber Touch. If I had come here first, I might have started off with a better PV. Of the PVs I've purchased- the only ones I enjoy are my pen style and Ego-T. If I had started here two months ago... maybe a suggestion for one of the nicer models would have been better. As it stands... the smaller models that I wasted money on will just sit in a box unless I can convince someone around here to buy them from me. I can't ethically do that though because they are a waste of money. I can never go back to pre-filled cartridges and simplicity after enjoying liquids.
Sometimes newbies want simplicity, but those newbies will specify that in their post description. Most of them will go on their quest to find the best model and will appreciate input from the users that will give them the technical details. I'll probably buy myself a Darwin or Provari for Christmas as I can't justify the purchase after all of the money I've wasted in the past few months on small modeled poor performance starter kits.
I appreciate that. I too learned here that I had bought a subpar ecig. And then, the overwhelming majority of posters here told me I should get a 901. I did. I like it. No one at that time was suggesting I drop big bucks on a mod when I had no idea if I was going to like vaping. And I appreciate they didn't. But now this board seems to have its fair share of posters with a financial interest in the types of ecigs they're recommending to noobs. Or, so many posters have accumulated so much knowledge about ecigs that they've forgotten how mind blowing all their technical jargon is to a newbie. There's a reason why the 901, and now the 510 have sold the most units and were, and are, the noob standard starting ecig. Because they're simple devices, their limitations are well known, and there is still plenty of people willing to testify as to their usefulness. It's just my opinion, but recommending a relatively little known, little purchased, and unproven mod to a noob is a bad idea. If the goal is to get them to start vaping. Those or models I'd suggest if it were clear that someone enjoys vaping, wants to stick with it, and is looking to step up in quality. If they're so inclined.
BTW. Got any 901 parts you'd like to sell? And would you be interested in an NPRO (LOL)? Live and learn.
I don't disagree with you entirely. Good points. Perhaps we'd be serving noobs better if we spent less time advising them what to buy, and more time telling them what not to buy. I think we have a pretty good idea by now what's crap and what's not. BTW, I wouldn't go putting the 901 on the crap list. It's a warrior. Is it the best e-cig? No. But it served, and still can, a great purpose. I liken it to the Volkswagen Beetle of the automobile world. Cheap, easily maintained, but when you get a better job, I'd recommend you get a better car. Unless you're like me and you just like the old beater too much and want to drive it until it drops.
I concede to the DSE901 being a decent unit, if you take back what you said about wooden mods looking like there were built using a kit purchased for a 10 year old. I have nothing against many starter units in particular, but you were the second person in this thread to imply that there was something wrong with a box mod, while claiming your starter unit (ego, DSE901) was the best and easiest solution for everyone's needs. I know a couple guys with screwdrivers and they are fine units...they aren't the unit for everyone, just as the REO isn't the box mod for everyone. There are benefits to variable voltage PV's and low resistance atomizers. I've found my best vape on the ProVari with a 3.2ohm 510 at 5.5volts, and the 3.7v boxes with an LR306 1.5ohm atty. I'm not the only one....these kinds of units are the most popular with folks who haven't been satisfied with the starter kits.
This question pops up every month or two. I see both sides of this.
I am like gigipark - a geek. I am willing to go the extra mile and try this super-spasmotic-doohickey-mega-mizer-thingie. So I get what you folks are saying.
But the thing is, that all you have to do to indicate you want more than a really simple answer, is leave your question open-ended, or ask for opinions.
But when a newbie asks me, as one did today, what atomizer they get to replace one that died from their eGo kit, I just tell them: a standard 510. I could tell them about Mega-this and LR-that, but they didn't ask. They asked a simple, closed question, which indicates that they are not a geek, and don't want a geeky answer.
A lot of people don't want to get geeky. They want to get off cigarettes. And they want to spend as little time and energy doing that as possible. I know people who have been vaping longer than me and are still using the same model they started with - some cig-a-like thingie, with cartridges or cartomizers. And they're happy.
All you're doing by presenting non-geeks with geeky answers is making vaping seem overwhelming. I'm pretty far on the geek scale, and for my first week here I still didn't know what the hell a cartomizer was.
If someone had said to me, on my first post here, "get a GGTB with AW 17670 batteries and an LR 306 with a drip tip, you'll love it" (and that is my primary vape now), I would have torn my face off and just gone back to smoking. And I have seen people post answers like that to newbies who are obviously not looking for that kind of answer.
I have to disagree that vaping would be a bigger success if everyone started with a mod. I think that displays exactly how much some of us forget what it's like in those first few week.
I own a mod. And my mod is a freakin' motha. You can pry it out of my cold, dead hands. But guess what.
When I seriously relapse (and I have), I have to go back to square one. Tobacco flavors, in a cig-a-like.
At times like those, my mod does not work. It just doesn't. It's not a cigarette. It's nothing like a cigarette. And what I want at moments like those, is a cigarette.
I've been vaping for over 8 months now. I have a high-quality, mechanical mod, more juice than I know what to do with, and the ability to be on the cutting edge of what an e-cigarette can do in the dawn of 2011, and I still own, and occassionally use, a 510 with some boring tobacco flavor in it. Because sometimes I need that.
I know not everyone is like that. There are newbies who start out with a mod. I'm not saying they don't exist, or we should discourage them from doing so. But smoking is a multifaceted addiction. For some of us, those superficial things are important. People underestimate the power of a behavioral or habitual addiction. It's just as strong as a chemical addiction for some people.
After a few weeks back on the horse, I don't need a cig-a-like, and I am bored to death of tobacco flavors. But if my only option for quitting were a mod, I think it would have been much more of a struggle.
I am like gigipark - a geek. I am willing to go the extra mile and try this super-spasmotic-doohickey-mega-mizer-thingie. So I get what you folks are saying.
But the thing is, that all you have to do to indicate you want more than a really simple answer, is leave your question open-ended, or ask for opinions.
But when a newbie asks me, as one did today, what atomizer they get to replace one that died from their eGo kit, I just tell them: a standard 510. I could tell them about Mega-this and LR-that, but they didn't ask. They asked a simple, closed question, which indicates that they are not a geek, and don't want a geeky answer.
A lot of people don't want to get geeky. They want to get off cigarettes. And they want to spend as little time and energy doing that as possible. I know people who have been vaping longer than me and are still using the same model they started with - some cig-a-like thingie, with cartridges or cartomizers. And they're happy.
All you're doing by presenting non-geeks with geeky answers is making vaping seem overwhelming. I'm pretty far on the geek scale, and for my first week here I still didn't know what the hell a cartomizer was.
If someone had said to me, on my first post here, "get a GGTB with AW 17670 batteries and an LR 306 with a drip tip, you'll love it" (and that is my primary vape now), I would have torn my face off and just gone back to smoking. And I have seen people post answers like that to newbies who are obviously not looking for that kind of answer.
I have to disagree that vaping would be a bigger success if everyone started with a mod. I think that displays exactly how much some of us forget what it's like in those first few week.
I own a mod. And my mod is a freakin' motha. You can pry it out of my cold, dead hands. But guess what.
When I seriously relapse (and I have), I have to go back to square one. Tobacco flavors, in a cig-a-like.
At times like those, my mod does not work. It just doesn't. It's not a cigarette. It's nothing like a cigarette. And what I want at moments like those, is a cigarette.
I've been vaping for over 8 months now. I have a high-quality, mechanical mod, more juice than I know what to do with, and the ability to be on the cutting edge of what an e-cigarette can do in the dawn of 2011, and I still own, and occassionally use, a 510 with some boring tobacco flavor in it. Because sometimes I need that.
I know not everyone is like that. There are newbies who start out with a mod. I'm not saying they don't exist, or we should discourage them from doing so. But smoking is a multifaceted addiction. For some of us, those superficial things are important. People underestimate the power of a behavioral or habitual addiction. It's just as strong as a chemical addiction for some people.
After a few weeks back on the horse, I don't need a cig-a-like, and I am bored to death of tobacco flavors. But if my only option for quitting were a mod, I think it would have been much more of a struggle.
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Uhhh...yeah...I made neither that claim nor that implication. I can't speak to the performance of box mods. I can speak to their appearance. And some of them look like crap. But that's just my opinion on their aesthetics. Some of them, however, look really nice. I think box mods, or some other kind of mod is going to be the future as people realize that vaping isn't smoking, so there's no reason why your PV needs to look like a cigarette.
Speaking of...are you are of anyone who can take old pipes and modify them so that I could easily use an atomizer and smoke with them? I have many, roughly 100, very nice old pipes that are just beautiful. I'd love to use them for something akin to an ecig.
I thought I'd read something similar to this thread -- http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...sion/141096-advice-what-buy-newcomers-48.html
Member rolygate closes the thread with accumulated knowledge.
Member rolygate closes the thread with accumulated knowledge.
Yeah, well, Rolygate has no statistics on the number of people who wanted to buy an ecig, but never did, because they went to an internet message board to research the issue and got bombarded with a whole lot of terms they didn't understand. I think we're at a point where someone (or group) can create a guide that relates to performance, maintenance, and cost. At a minimum, as I said earlier, we can certainly come close to a consensus on proven models and those models that are utter crap. And anything product of which there is no consensus, well that can be pointed out too.
They're called stickies. Nobody reads them.Generally people point to - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ping-illustrated-guide-e-cigs-part-1-6-a.html or mistressnomad's many videos.
It's tough to help people if they run away. They have to fight through their confusion and fears. There's plenty of simple help here to find if one is determined.
It's tough to help people if they run away. They have to fight through their confusion and fears. There's plenty of simple help here to find if one is determined.
Oh, I thought it was the "Advice on what to buy for newcomers " thread. Which is just a mass of confusion. Interestingly, it ends, unilaterally I might add, with this:
"A correctly-working e-cigarette produces large clouds of vapor (more than a tobacco cigarette in fact); it tastes fabulous, and the flavor can be changed as needed, from Marbro tobacco to blueberry muffin to apple pie; the battery lasts all day; the throat hit and vapor temperature can be adjusted to the precise value required; the nicotine strength is right on, and no withdrawal pangs are experienced by the average user; the nicotine content can be reduced in the evening, before bedtime; and in general the user is highly satisfied, realising they have found a 'smoking' solution that is way better in every respect than their tobacco habit."
Kindly point me to this ecig. And not an ecig that will only do this sometimes that costs a fortune so that if I recommend it to a newbie, and he realizes he doesn't even like vaping, I won't feel bad for suggesting it and he won't feel like punching me in the teeth because of all the cash he lost.
"A correctly-working e-cigarette produces large clouds of vapor (more than a tobacco cigarette in fact); it tastes fabulous, and the flavor can be changed as needed, from Marbro tobacco to blueberry muffin to apple pie; the battery lasts all day; the throat hit and vapor temperature can be adjusted to the precise value required; the nicotine strength is right on, and no withdrawal pangs are experienced by the average user; the nicotine content can be reduced in the evening, before bedtime; and in general the user is highly satisfied, realising they have found a 'smoking' solution that is way better in every respect than their tobacco habit."
Kindly point me to this ecig. And not an ecig that will only do this sometimes that costs a fortune so that if I recommend it to a newbie, and he realizes he doesn't even like vaping, I won't feel bad for suggesting it and he won't feel like punching me in the teeth because of all the cash he lost.
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