And just to add, I've been looking at these American made PVs. I'll pop on one one of these days.
What in the world is wrong with simplicity?
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Agreed charge a battery is no different than a cell phone, ipod, etc.
Very simple maintenance, kinda like rolling you own cigs.
Not a major pain, not what I would hope the future of e-cigs to be.
Why not, a simple rechargeable power source, an attachable juice / heater supply you buy
like a pack of smokes. (no not cartos, MUCH more efficient, reliable, enjoyable)
Three different setups seem somewhat complex,
but a natural learning curve. Each step youwere able to find what you liked and move on with insight on how to reduce the "hobby" factor.
A noob looking to quit, isn't going to naturally know to noalox the threads weekly.
My point wasn't that your vaping experience can't be simplified once you get some experience.
Only that the current technology does not make anything truely customer friendly, simple,
because it's such a new product.
If you don't think tech evolves, can I interest you in a used vacume tube "portable" radio,
maybe $5,000 PC with 640kb memory and a 5MB HDD ??
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That is priceless! When someone asks me what I recommend, I tell them to try a disposable to see if they even like the concept...and to keep in mind that there is so much better out there if they do. That the disposable will taste yucky, most likely, and it won't last long, etc...or steer them to an NJOY...cheap and dirty. THEN, if they liked that, we'll talk about systems, flavors of juice, and what else to expect. It really does help when you personally know the person, as you know their habits, technological tolerance level, how much and for how long they smoked, did they smoke indoors and in their car, etc.
When we start out, we're facing that demon and feel stressed, pressured to find this Holy Grail we've somehow heard of. Ya know, that may be a good questinon to ask a newbie who puts out a general 'What do I buy' plea...how did you hear about ecigs and go from there. Please don't stop helping everyone..that's what makes this forum unique. In fact, this is the first thread with any tension I've stumbled across...and that says a lot about the integrity of this group to respect each other. This is truly a support group!! Thank you!!
When I first started it was a regular 510 battery and atomizer with a drip tip. I couldn't imagine using a "box" to vape. Now I love my bottom feed mods.
Also like the higher voltages at times. But I don't know if I would have been successful if I s tarted with a "box". Everyone is an individual, and we are lucky to have so many options. I think even a newbie should be made aware.
Also like the higher voltages at times. But I don't know if I would have been successful if I s tarted with a "box". Everyone is an individual, and we are lucky to have so many options. I think even a newbie should be made aware.
Nice advice for newbies. but the OP's notion that the postings in this forum need to be down sampled to a less technical or opinionated set of practices is not particularly compelling. The stickies with the basics at the top of the forum are for the basic basics. the personal passion with which people recommend their PVs is part of the charm of this place. A MAP tank for goodness sakes...i've been vaping a year and i think that's one of the most hideous devices around... i'd much prefer a bottom fed grand reo--just haven't found one for sale at the moments when i have been shopping--not that i wouldn't try the map tank...i don't actually care about ugly--i just find that having a syringe in the house to refill cartos is just a bit too much.
just for the record. Simpler really is better but there are times when excess is nice too.
I started with a blu, which sucked but was beyond easy to use. Upgraded to an ego which is also easy to use and has no battery life issues. Now that I've been vaping for a month, and will probably do it for the rest of my life, I'm going in both directions.
My wishlist includes: GLV 5v, SuperMini GLV 3.7, and a regular auto 510 PCC kit for less ambiguous usage that still has more battery life than the blu. This all in addition to the 2 ego batts (the blu kit was donated to a friend). So to make a long story short. I want some nice things too, but I never would have gotten started if it wasnt for that barebones l88b blu. Simple and cheap is what most people need to get started. $35 510 kit and genjoye cartos will be all that anyone needs to realize if they want to vape or not.
If someone buys a $100+ super duper mod and a handful of map tanks, and then realizes that they hate all of the flavors, or that they want to continue inhaling car exhaust, then they just blew a lot of money. Even an ego kit is a solid $60-70, so its best to start small.
I started with a blu, which sucked but was beyond easy to use. Upgraded to an ego which is also easy to use and has no battery life issues. Now that I've been vaping for a month, and will probably do it for the rest of my life, I'm going in both directions.
My wishlist includes: GLV 5v, SuperMini GLV 3.7, and a regular auto 510 PCC kit for less ambiguous usage that still has more battery life than the blu. This all in addition to the 2 ego batts (the blu kit was donated to a friend). So to make a long story short. I want some nice things too, but I never would have gotten started if it wasnt for that barebones l88b blu. Simple and cheap is what most people need to get started. $35 510 kit and genjoye cartos will be all that anyone needs to realize if they want to vape or not.
If someone buys a $100+ super duper mod and a handful of map tanks, and then realizes that they hate all of the flavors, or that they want to continue inhaling car exhaust, then they just blew a lot of money. Even an ego kit is a solid $60-70, so its best to start small.
I can appreciate the desire to keep things simple. Especially when new, it is like some heartfelt desire to just buy something and conquer the world of vaping. I will even go so far as to say that the simple concept of heating/vaporizing a liquid and inhaling it has gotten waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of hand considering the simplicity.
I understand some devices look weird. I would much rather have the performance of those devices in an EGO package. For some reason, mod makers don't see it that way. Heck why don't they just improve the performance of the ego? That would simplify things wouldn't it?
All that being said, put an 801 atty on 5v and then tell me if you ever touch an ego again.
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I think the most interesting thing in this thread is that so many people on this forum are thinking about what it would be that a newbie would want to know--need to know have ranged from the problem of cheap chinese manfacturing to american marketing practices to very practical arguments about what's simple and what's not. that's amazing. i read somewhere the number of people who had bothered to create a log in for this forum and the # who are active...the latter i think is 10,000. Noobs coming on here getting the benefit of 10,000 people's fractional attention are receiving an incredible wealth of information.
clearly this is a technology in motion and no settled answer is sufficient. a year ago most of the current answers to what a noob should try (barring some venerable entries) wouldn't have even been in existence.
BTW and on subject...a box mod is approx the size of a PACK of cigarettes. A PACK of cigarettes is pretty much what all of us carried as analog smokers. I don't think it would be that difficult to convince the noob that the first e-cig they should buy is a PACK of cigarettes, that just happens to have one cigarette protruding from the pack which is the one you actually smoke (vape) in fact my first "pack" e-cig was designed just like that, with 10 carts in a row across the top, a built in charger etc. and a cigarette that i could screw in/take out to smoke charge. If the cigarette had simply protruded from the pack (as opposed to being removable) and i had to hold it in my hand i doubt i would have freaked. Not that this is the "industry standard"today but it could be in a matter of 12 months.
then a "box mod" could be the actual entry point for the marketed to noob...
--oh well maybe that is off topic--but so is half this thread
happy vaping
clearly this is a technology in motion and no settled answer is sufficient. a year ago most of the current answers to what a noob should try (barring some venerable entries) wouldn't have even been in existence.
BTW and on subject...a box mod is approx the size of a PACK of cigarettes. A PACK of cigarettes is pretty much what all of us carried as analog smokers. I don't think it would be that difficult to convince the noob that the first e-cig they should buy is a PACK of cigarettes, that just happens to have one cigarette protruding from the pack which is the one you actually smoke (vape) in fact my first "pack" e-cig was designed just like that, with 10 carts in a row across the top, a built in charger etc. and a cigarette that i could screw in/take out to smoke charge. If the cigarette had simply protruded from the pack (as opposed to being removable) and i had to hold it in my hand i doubt i would have freaked. Not that this is the "industry standard"today but it could be in a matter of 12 months.
then a "box mod" could be the actual entry point for the marketed to noob...
--oh well maybe that is off topic--but so is half this thread
happy vaping
Maybe Big Tobacco isn't running with ecigs because the profit margin isn't as good as their current product. We know they make them and test them in their labs. I think Big Tobacco knows the future is with ecigs but they won't make that leap until their profit margin is seriously effected. IMO that is when they will lobby the regulators and market the product to their current consumer base. I don't think they are worried about the FDA. They have a lot of money and have spent it well. They manufacture and sale a product that is known to cause numerous health problems, maybe even death and are able to do it legally. I can see the new marketing campaign when (if) they start marketing ecigs. It will be the softer, caring, healthier, Big Tobacco lol.
I do agree with you that they will push for regulation. It will squash the little guys who will try to cut in on their profit margin and keep Big Government happy. Big Pharma is also testing ecig type devices. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out but I think the future of most smokers will be something like an ecig and less like a combustible.
Thats a pretty good assessment of what the future will bring of ecigs, big tobacco has the FDA and lobbyists in their pocket. Money is king in the land of USA so you can hedge your bets the ecig is either on its way out or here to stay, and under very different circumstances i.e. big tobacco and/or big pharma. Of course if they have their way it will be "don't buy ecigs" one month and the next "there safe as safe can be", IMAO. Money makes the impossible possible in our democracy.
Good on ya mate, that's exactly what I was going to say. I'm a vap noob as well and will be getting my Reo Grand on the 19th this month. This is the FIRST unit I've ever or will be purchasing.
Oh I agree, the map tank is not the prettiest piece of equipment, and I can say with 100% assurance that there was no way I would have purchased this as my first PV, I had to grow into it, much as many of you had to grow into your mods. And with just as much assurance is that when I looked at e-cigs, I didnt want to buy a disposable or POS, I wanted something that worked, was simple, and a complete kit, which, I got at the mall kiosk for $75 including a bottle of some pretty decent vanilla juice, a PCC, 2 setups, extra carts, charger adapters (wall and car). It was pink and pretty and I liked it, a lot. I had and still have no complaints, it was the best $75 I've ever spent. I am no longer smoking and that was the main motivation, with the value greater than or equal to the cost coming in a close second. I would never invest much more than that on a lemme try this and see if it even will work for me, at the time I didnt like the thought of spending $75 but figured it's about the price of 2 boxes of patches that I already know wont work.
My main motivation remains to not smoke, and to also choose products that will work where the value is greater than or equal to the cost. All I have been saying is, there are many people like this who, even though they may be able to afford to buy one of everything, they just dont want to mess with it, they just want something that works that is a good value. I have not, nor am I dissing all of those who do hobby vaping and modding and going the whole 9 yards, you guys are the reason why e-cigs are advancing in a positive direction, but to assume and even advise that everybody wants to or should go the same way is over the top. I could afford a Provari, and even looked at getting one until it struck me that what I have works great for me so I dont NEED to go there, I'll pocket that money and can have 2 dates with my boys at the movies, one of which was last night. It was the much better choice and I'm still happily vaping away.
My opinion is not THE MOST IMPORTANT as someone presumed, however my opinion (which is shared by others) is not invalidated either, and THAT was my second point, the first being, maybe we should get more info from the newbies before we start overwhelming them with techy stuff they dont understand or maybe even care about.
Oh yeah.. a good friend of mine bought a PV from one of her coworkers who apparently has a small side business selling e-cigs, simple overpriced mall kiosk type unit, and she is perfectly happy with it and even continues to buy the prefilled cartridges from him because it's less muss and fuss for her, it's simple and it works for her and most of all, she isnt smoking. So that's 2 people that I personally know who are using their initial kit as their main vape with no desire to change that fact. Odds are that there are plently more.
Speaking of mall kiosks, I was at the mall last night. In the mall there are 3 e-cig kiosks!! THREE!! All three of them had a boat load of customers at them, I was honestly surprised. I stood at each one for a while to just hear what the customers were asking, what was important to them about their purchases. #1 - complete kits and the availability of replacement parts. All that I observed wanted the smallest model even when the salesperson explained about the shorter battery life. The customers were allowed to try the product with their choice of juice flavor! I could see that lightbulb coming on in the customers heads when they tried it and saw the potential as a complete replacement and finally a way to quit smoking. Being able to try it was a very powerful sales tool. The only negative I saw was that there were a few customers of questionable age making purchases and were not carded.
My main motivation remains to not smoke, and to also choose products that will work where the value is greater than or equal to the cost. All I have been saying is, there are many people like this who, even though they may be able to afford to buy one of everything, they just dont want to mess with it, they just want something that works that is a good value. I have not, nor am I dissing all of those who do hobby vaping and modding and going the whole 9 yards, you guys are the reason why e-cigs are advancing in a positive direction, but to assume and even advise that everybody wants to or should go the same way is over the top. I could afford a Provari, and even looked at getting one until it struck me that what I have works great for me so I dont NEED to go there, I'll pocket that money and can have 2 dates with my boys at the movies, one of which was last night. It was the much better choice and I'm still happily vaping away.
My opinion is not THE MOST IMPORTANT as someone presumed, however my opinion (which is shared by others) is not invalidated either, and THAT was my second point, the first being, maybe we should get more info from the newbies before we start overwhelming them with techy stuff they dont understand or maybe even care about.
Oh yeah.. a good friend of mine bought a PV from one of her coworkers who apparently has a small side business selling e-cigs, simple overpriced mall kiosk type unit, and she is perfectly happy with it and even continues to buy the prefilled cartridges from him because it's less muss and fuss for her, it's simple and it works for her and most of all, she isnt smoking. So that's 2 people that I personally know who are using their initial kit as their main vape with no desire to change that fact. Odds are that there are plently more.
Speaking of mall kiosks, I was at the mall last night. In the mall there are 3 e-cig kiosks!! THREE!! All three of them had a boat load of customers at them, I was honestly surprised. I stood at each one for a while to just hear what the customers were asking, what was important to them about their purchases. #1 - complete kits and the availability of replacement parts. All that I observed wanted the smallest model even when the salesperson explained about the shorter battery life. The customers were allowed to try the product with their choice of juice flavor! I could see that lightbulb coming on in the customers heads when they tried it and saw the potential as a complete replacement and finally a way to quit smoking. Being able to try it was a very powerful sales tool. The only negative I saw was that there were a few customers of questionable age making purchases and were not carded.
If my first experience with e-cigs had been any harder than opening a box charging a kr-808 and screwing in a marlboro cartomizer and sucking on it, I honestly don't think I would have stayed with it long enough to quit analogs. For one thing, as a newb, I was somewhat self conscious- maybe this is just me, or maybe it's because I'm female and conscious about appearances but if my e-cig had not resembled a cigarette I doubt that I would have used it outside of the house.
I liked it and it worked well enough to break a 40 year analog habit. And after awhile I realized on my own the shortcomings of the kr-808 and went to an ego-t. I lost all concerns about how my PV looked and was more concerned with performance and battery life. I'm now ready to look at a bottom feeder because that seems to be a better solution for me.
But this has been a natural progression and yes, it has cost me more money than it would have if I had started out with an expensive mod, but I wasn't ready for that then and doubt I would have been comfortable enough with it, and confident enough to vape with it in public that I would have permanently given up cigarettes.
I liked it and it worked well enough to break a 40 year analog habit. And after awhile I realized on my own the shortcomings of the kr-808 and went to an ego-t. I lost all concerns about how my PV looked and was more concerned with performance and battery life. I'm now ready to look at a bottom feeder because that seems to be a better solution for me.
But this has been a natural progression and yes, it has cost me more money than it would have if I had started out with an expensive mod, but I wasn't ready for that then and doubt I would have been comfortable enough with it, and confident enough to vape with it in public that I would have permanently given up cigarettes.
I think there are many Americans, obviously many on ECF, who prefer quality over cost. But the larger distributers of PV's in America don't agree. After all the improvements made by basically individuals to PV's, have you noticed that the only companies (not indvidual suppliers) who have offered better options are the Chinese (Joye as one example)? You don't see these type of upgrades from Blu, SE or Njoy.
I am of mixed feelings about younger people buying e-cigs. I know my son started smoking before he was 18 and so did all of his friends and I would much rather they vape than smoke. They're all 19 to 20 now. I've tried to get all of them to switch and none of them have. Having to charge things multiple times a day, switch empty cartomizers, or refill carts and carry bottles of juice is just too much trouble for them. I bought him every style that he wanted to try. 901's, 510's, Stick, 601 Pipe -- nothing stuck more than a few days. They all like the flavors, all of them want to know what I'm using and taste it. Now that the bottom feeder mods are around he's interested again. The idea that you can have something that you only have to fill every other day and only have to charge a battery every day or so appeals to him. I'll see how he likes my Monkeyboxx when I get it and start saving to buy him one if he wants it. Actually for him, the REO would probably be better since he is rough on things, metal is probably a better option than wood for him. The best thing about vaping is that there are so many options that there is a way to find one that fits almost everyone. Getting there is both fun and frustrating at times .
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In addition...
Cost of the initial investment is miniscule compared to smoking.
Most could buy a nice mod, attys, batteries, charger, and juice for the cost of one month of analogs.
And still, that commitment does not require expensive mods and/or an overwhelming amount of info not necessarily requested.
Right now, on the newbie thread, there is a post from a newbie looking for advice, plainly saying cost is the major factor. Yet advice given are mods that are very expensive and would likely be an immediate turn off to this newbie. Especially since someone on this thread has already stated that some box mod can be bought for like $30.
Cost of initial investment is a MAJOR issue in whether someone does or doesnt buy in, especially for some who simply DONT have that kind of money upfront.
Right now, on the newbie thread, there is a post from a newbie looking for advice, plainly saying cost is the major factor. Yet advice given are mods that are very expensive and would likely be an immediate turn off to this newbie. Especially since someone on this thread has already stated that some box mod can be bought for like $30.
Cost of initial investment is a MAJOR issue in whether someone does or doesnt buy in, especially for some who simply DONT have that kind of money upfront.
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I am of mixed feelings about younger people buying e-cigs. I know my son started smoking before he was 18 and so did all of his friends and I would much rather they vape than smoke. They're all 19 to 20 now. I've tried to get all of them to switch and none of them have. Having to charge things multiple times a day, switch empty cartomizers, or refill carts and carry bottles of juice is just too much trouble for them. I bought him every style that he wanted to try. 901's, 510's, Stick, 601 Pipe -- nothing stuck more than a few days. They all like the flavors, all of them want to know what I'm using and taste it. Now that the bottom feeder mods are around he's interested again. The idea that you can have something that you only have to fill every other day and only have to charge a battery every day or so appeals to him. I'll see how he likes my Monkeyboxx when I get it and start saving to buy him one if he wants it. Actually for him, the REO would probably be better since he is rough on things, metal is probably a better option than wood for him. The best thing about vaping is that there are so many options that there is a way to find one that fits almost everyone. Getting there is both fun and frustrating at times
You mention that YOU would rather have him vape than smoke....Does HE really want to switch...? I think a lot of folks that complain about some pretty simple tasks...charging...filling...refilling...etc... are just using that as an excuse not to quit...Not saying that's the case in your situation...But you have to be willing to put in SOME effort if you really want to make the change..
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