Why are so many people against non-smokers vaping?

[Mud Pie]

I strongly believe in freedom of choice, freedom of speech, etc., and when asked for my opinion, I will offer it. I would never give my blessing for any addiction to another, whether or not I have said addiction.

Yes, vaping for me has been a life changer. I'm extremely glad I've discovered it. But, to me, that exhaled plume of vapor is a modern day Scarlet Letter. It lets the world know I am an addict.

If a smoker asks me about vaping, I'm all for promoting it. If a non-smoker asks, I'd say "Why even start down the road to addiction ?" The idea of a non-smoker vaping 0 nic just "for effect" eludes me. Kind of like asking a vegetarion to buy and grill a steak...but not eat it; just do it for the effect.

I vape because I am an addict. It ain't cool, it ain't trendy. One day I hope to be nic-free. The argument that begins with "Well, I could be addicted to______" is not valid in my eyes. ANY addiction is not healthy or worthy in my opinion.

 

[nicgnostic_777]

To be quite honest and I know I'll sound like a ...., but smokers have been harassed and ostracized ever since the EPA came out with its report on tobacco and now that there's finally an outlet for smokers to be able to have their cake and at it too it would suck to have to share with people who have never been through the bs non-smokers have put smokers through for years. Everyone remembers the fake coughs, the snickering, the "you're killing yourself" remarks, etc. that followed us on the streets and it sucked...sure zero nic juice my be fine for non-smokers but there's always going to be stigma that current smokers and former smokers have to fight and nonsmokers vaping isn't going to change that, especially if they still view nicotine as the devil's drug of choice...maybe they should smoke cigarettes first and see how difficult it is to quit, have them fail a million times, trying patches, lozenges, gum, cold turkey, chantix, etc. and then let them vape and then gradually get to zero nic maybe then they will understand why some people want them to stay away from vaping. It's not just because of the chemicals but rather because for many of us vaping isn't a trend and nonsmokers vaping cheapens its value to those of who choose to vape for deeper reasons.Yes this is kind of a harsh rant but to me most nonsmokers were those people who had no empathy for smokers and to see them vaping would irk me...that being said I see others arguments about who cares its a free country and I agree but you know I'm just bitter and that's my $0.02

 

[Kabooma]

Hey Mud, All very good points. I've come to realize that a human fault is simply that we all need some kind of vice in our lives. Last year, I was smoke free, but overweight. I went to an all natural diet, started biking, actually did some amazing long-distance events, charities, etc.. lost a lot of weight, was the epitome of good health and lifestyle.. but I really missed smoking.. without the food, I was left wanting... needing something, anything, and ended up choosing smoking over bad food. I still rode and smoked before and after riding. It was horrible- when I did the american cancer society bike-a-thon - at the finish line, there were thousands of people- a huge party, and what did I do? I grabbed a celebratory beer, then biked to the far end of the park, and lit up in shame....

I'm vaping now, just got my ce4 yesterday and it's amazing! I still have 8-10 cigs left in the pack, had one last night and another this morning, and both times, I pitched it at halfway done.. the vaping is actually more desirable! I'd hate more than anything to see this as demonized as smoking.. I need a vice, and this is more than suitable for me!

 

[zyglrox]

I vape because I am an addict. It ain't cool, it ain't trendy. One day I hope to be nic-free. The argument that begins with "Well, I could be addicted to______" is not valid in my eyes.

I don't exactly disagree with you, but I find that I'm always addicted to one thing or another. My whole life has been a series of obsessions - some endearing and beneficial - others... ...not so much. I could give up nicotine and the battle wouldn't change for me. I would just be out there trying my hardest not to get addicted to something else. Perhaps it's something within me that I need to address, but when I look at the bigger picture of my own tendencies, this is really the lesser of two evils for me. If I must be addicted to something, let it at least be something that's not going to cause me TOO much harm. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. After all of the crap my addictive tendencies have put me through over the years, I can safely say that I'm 100% fine with this. My choice to vape is me attempting to make peace with this aspect of myself. I'm not giving up on myself, just moving on. I know myself too well to think that I'd really be better off quitting yet another thing. I'm so sick of having to feel guilty about things that I enjoy. That's not the way I want to live my life. Life isn't always ideal, so I just try to do the best I can with it. Ideally, I'd like to just not be addicted to anything, but I've found that trying to live that way is actually more detrimental to me as person than merely diverting it to the least harmful things I can tag it to. This way, I stay happy and I get to be a bit healthier. I've gotta have some vice! Everything that we do implies some degree of risk. One day, I will die and I'd like that to be as far down the road as possible, but it won't be worth it if I don't enjoy the ride there.

So if you wanna vape just for kicks, then who am I to deny you that right? I mean, I'm sitting here enjoying the hell out of it right now! I'm not one to question other's choices in life. If they are fully aware of the risks/unknowns involved, then that's their call to make. The beauty of personal decisions is that you don't have to justify them to anybody but yourself. The quest for happiness and fulfillment isn't a contest. There are no comparisons to be made - no validity to be established. I wouldn't recommend vaping to anyone who's not a smoker, but it's certainly not my place to make that recommendation and definitely not a choice that I would take personally. People have to find their own way with these things.

And on that note, if you're not happy with the way things are going with your addiction, then you definitely should be working to change that! Right now, I'm just really not about fixing what isn't broken, but that's just where I'm at in my life.

It's not hypocritical for a non-smoker to take up vaping. It merely represents a change in attitude. I hardly see how this is a bad thing. I'd be happy to have some non-smokers come to understand where I'm coming from. Any hard feelings at that point are undeserved. They're not our enemies as far as I'm concerned. To turn them away is to become that which we hate.

 

[meli.]

If you're going to quote me please don't add "Hell it's as safe as houses" because that phrase is nowhere in my post.

If the person is an adult, they are free to choose (isn't that what individual freedom is about?)

Indeed, and thus none of our business until such time as that Individual asks for one's opinion or seeks advice, at that point does one sit back and say: Hell it's as safe as houses, or, does one ask the individual to consider the choice they are about to make?

I am quite sure I did not extract "hell, it as safe as houses" from your quote. I do however find it fascinating that you were so willing to assume title. Defensive much?

Perhaps you might try reading All the words in the sentence.

I agreed with you and then went on to ask a question.

All too often I read responses to non-tobacco users in New Members Forum 'Yeah, vaping is safer/ better than smoking, I won't tell you what to do, you're old enough to make your own decisions, you go right ahead. It's no more harmful than caffeine. I suggest you purchase xyz starter kit from acme vape store. Vape on Dude!'

For me this is irresponsible and Promotion Without Caution.

Many times the reasons for wanting to start vaping by Non Tobacco Users are Misguided excuses: need to lose weight, it will keep my hands busy, I'm looking for a new hobby, it will relieve all my stresses in life, it will make me feel and/ or look good.
Yeah? Dream on. Unless looking good is a stressed out, self conscious fat chick standing at a bar, keeping her hands busy by puffing anxiously on an ecig praying it has sufficient battery time whilst desperately trying to contain her hunger and hoping no one comes over to harass her for vaping indoors. No offence is meant or implied.

Some members feel they might positively influence against as well as positively discourage the use of these products to non tobacco users and especially emerging adults.

Is it So wrong for members to respond with "Think before you start" or to give a personal account of the battle they have fought to overcome their addiction to both tobacco and nicotine in the hope it may dissuade a prospective user of the same pitfalls? Calling them names and negating their efforts to do something positive, makes their accusers just as guilty of prejudice.

"Do what you want, when you want because you can" is a great philosophy but fails in social responsibility. Far be it for anyone to tell people what to do but they are permitted to ask why and to offer their honest opinion when requested. Is this not the purpose of ECF? A free and fair exchange of information, experiences and problem solving without judgement.

 

[Shiryo]

The reason I can't stand people who vape that weren't previously smoking: FDA polls.

Once the FDA sees the percentage of vapers who never smoked, they're using it against us.

The other minor reason is, they're posers.

I have no use for vaping if there is no nicotine. If there's no nicotine, I will go back to smoking. Plain and simple. The only reason I vape is because I don't stink when I vape, but I still get my nicotine buzz from time to time.

 

[eratikmind]

The reason I can't stand people who vape that weren't previously smoking: FDA polls.

Once the FDA sees the percentage of vapers who never smoked, they're using it against us.

The other minor reason is, they're posers.

I have no use for vaping if there is no nicotine. If there's no nicotine, I will go back to smoking. Plain and simple. The only reason I vape is because I don't stink when I vape, but I still get my nicotine buzz from time to time.

Many members continue to vape for the pure enjoyment of vaping when they have reached the 0mg level. Actually, there is a sub forum dedicated to 0mg nic vapers, here.

 

[MamaReads]

I believe vaping has great promise for diabetics wanting to curb their sweet tooth. That said, I would recommend ZERO nicotine to a vaping diabetic UNLESS they were also a smoker.

Perhaps it could even help people lose weight. I know I munch less in the evenings because of a post someone made about accidently getting food stuck in their PV. YUCK!!! So, who knows, maybe it would be a good weight loss tool as well. Again, I would recommend ZERO nicotine.

If someone wanted to try it because it's cool (isn't that why many of us started smoking???), I would again recommend ZERO nicotine. Why become addicted to something, a habit is one thing, a physical addiction to a DRUG is another.

OTOH, I certainly recommend it to smokers. All smokers. Please try vaping versus smoking!!!

 

[ctourtelot]

Having worked in ecig retail for over a year, I came across just about every situation where people were interested in vaping. I can recall 3 different situations with non-smokers wanting to vape.

The first was an elderly lady who hadn't smoked for about 5 years, but since she stopped smoking (after 50 years of smoking), she'd never been able to stop fidgeting. She wanted a 0 nic ecig so she could satisfy her hand to mouth habit. I set her up with a very basic, simple to use mini that she used a couple times a day to ease nervousness. I was fine with that.

The second was a young couple who came in because the boyfriend was a smoker and wanted to quit. I set him up with a system and as they were leaving, the girlfriend became curious. She had quit smoking 2 years prior, but still used nicotine gum. She thought vaping might be a better route. I told her that in my opinion, beating the hand to mouth part of smoking can be just as difficult, if not more so, than breaking the addiction to the nicotine. Since she was still using nicotine, I told her that I felt it would be detrimental for her to re-associate the nicotine and the hand to mouth behaviors. She felt that made sense. I told her that if she felt she was at the point of lighting up a cigarette then she should come back and see me, but otherwise stay strong as she was doing really well. Both customers left happy.

The third was a 50 yr old business man who just wanted to give it a try. I believe he was a bit of a practical joker and thought of them somewhat as a gag. I told him that I didn't recommend taking up vaping when he didn't currently smoke or use nicotine and that at the very least he should go with 0 nic. He insisted on the regular starter kit with various strengths and I sold him what he asked for. I didn't necessarily like the idea of him vaping "as a joke", but he was a grown man and I didn't feel it was my place at that point to argue with him.

Each scenario was different and I handled each differently. I don't think there is any right or wrong answer to this issue just as there is no one ecig that fits every vaper.

Just my opinion.

 

[mkbilbo]

Stray thought today, reading the thread...

You know, posting negative opinions about non-smokers taking up vaping isn't actually exercising any control over anybody. A poster who comes here, asks for opinions on the matter, gets a ton of "bad idea" and "don't do that" posts, can still go out and start vaping. Nobody here can magically control them by posting an opinion. And it's not even denying anybody information. There's tons out there. ECF can't actually physically stand in anybody's way. It's a website after all. It can't reach out into the real world and create a barrier or something.

So sometimes it seems a touch odd to me that this is a "hot topic". It's not like anybody here can actually do anything to stop anybody from doing what they want. Posting opinions can't control people.

Which leads to me wondering, are we be trolled?

I'm still pretty new to vaping and the community here but not the Internet. Sometimes, this "I'm a non-smoker..." thing feels a little too familiar. And not in a good way...

 

[subversive]

I have an analogy for you -

A non-smoker decides to try out nicotine gum or other NRT because they are curious about nicotine, and they think chewing citrus or mint gum all day sounds fun. That's exactly how stupid I think it is for a never-smoker to start vaping. Even with 0 nic, what on earth is the point? If I ever get to 0 nic, there's no way I'm going to fuss with liquid and batteries so I can inhale not-all-that tasty flavored vapor for absolutely no reason. Just like I'm not going to chew a piece of regular gum every hour.

For those mentioning control freaks - there's a difference between telling someone something is a bad idea and banning them from doing it. They can do what they want, but don't expect me not to think it's ridiculous or voice my opinion if asked.

 

[p-doze]

i can understand people drinking odouls or decaf coffee in social situations, but vaping zero nicotine juice makes no sense to me.

 

[zyglrox]

As far as the controlling people issue goes, I don't think anybody is meaning that literally. It's rhetorical for "I'm not opposed to people doing it." Obviously, it would be impossible to put a ban on non-smokers vaping into practice. That would be pretty silly. It's a hot topic because there's a pretty clear divide in opinions on the matter.

The reason I can't stand people who vape that weren't previously smoking: FDA polls.

Once the FDA sees the percentage of vapers who never smoked, they're using it against us.

That's not fair! It's not their faults that the FDA is shady like that!

The other minor reason is, they're posers.

That, I just find kinda pretentious. What does that even mean? If they start vaping with nic juices, then how does that make their newfound addiction any less legitimate? Are they merely pretending to be addicted at that point? And for those vaping zero-nic, are they somehow pretending to enjoy that? I mean, if they're not addicted to nicotine and so many people out there think it is weird, then why would they bother? Is it because they secretly hate it? I just don't follow...

I don't know how so many of you can make the claim that playing with vapor is not the least bit fun! Believe it or not, not all of us lament vaping all that much. I like to take nice, big drags of the vapor, feel it in my lungs, and watch as the plumes pour out. Nicotine aside, that is just fun to me. I dunno... I like it a lot more than chewing gum or drinking decaf.

Let's not forget that an e-cig isn't a smoking cessation device. It's an alternative to smoking. That to me implies that just as you can switch from traditional cigarettes to this, you could also choose to pick up this over traditional cigarettes, which would be the better way to go if you're going to try either, imo.

 

[flintlock62]

As long as it's nicotine free, I see no problem. I have read about non-smokers wanting to use nicotine. That part doesn't make sense to me.

Seems weird to me. We know smoking is bad and we know, that at the very least, vaping is less harmful. So why the big thing I see about non-smokers looking into getting an ecig getting multitudes of people telling them not too? Doesn't that, in a way, give the wrong opinion to people outside of the vaping community the wrong impression? The huge stink made about don't start if you never smoked seems like it might get some minds a wondering as to why not? What's wrong with them?

I guess now that I am almost 8 months in I look at my nicotine habit like my caffeine habit. One bottle of soda a day does me good for the day and vaping whenever does me good for nicotine for the day.

I've had a non-smoking friend say he wanted to get an epipe for the effect and I told him which ones looked pretty good and worked well instead of berating him about how he has never smoked before and shouldn't. My thoughts have always been that at least the person isn't picking up smoking just to get nicotine.

 

[subversive]

I don't know how so many of you can make the claim that playing with vapor is not the least bit fun! Believe it or not, not all of us lament vaping all that much. I like to take nice, big drags of the vapor, feel it in my lungs, and watch as the plumes pour out. Nicotine aside, that is just fun to me. I dunno... I like it a lot more than chewing gum or drinking decaf.

I guess I just view vaping as my superior form of long-term ( possibly lifelong ) NRT. I am a forum addict and am curious about new things, but vaping has never become a hobby for me. I DIY, but don't really experiment. I have bought 3 different e-cig models in two years of vaping. I scratch my head when I read threads about new vapers spending $100's on equipment or see photos ( though they do look cool ) of dozens of pretty devices all lined up on someone's custom-made PV holder. It's a substitute for a habit that I couldn't/wouldn't quit and keeps me from going back to it. I think I look ridiculous holding a nearly foot-long chrome device and puffing on it. I do it anyway because I know it's one of my smarter decisions and my device works well.

 

[eric1973]

I've been a non-smoker (now "vaper") for several months. It's been a blessing to me.

My girlfriend, on a strict diet, watched me make the transition from "frustrated and angry and trying to quit" to happy and vaping. Smelling the flavors I vaped, she inquired on how much I knew about the subject (not that she could shut me up anyway). After reading up on the topic, risks, and "safe" points, reading this forum, etc, she took the plunge and now vapes cinnabun type flavors, 0 Mg Nic, and uses a testing kit to make sure there is NO nicotene in her liquids.

While she does get some harrassment for this, she does not have the regular cravings for sweet, fatty foods as she used to. And if she does... she reaches for her Zmax. Problem solved for the moment. She is a grown woman, and she did her homework. Neither one of us needs the mood swings.

I do find it odd, however, that so many vapers would be so harsh with this.... it's mostly safe or not, and weigh out pg/vg and flavors vs cholesterol, gmo's, msg's, high fructose corn syrup, etc. (this aside from the many cigarette ingredients touted about so often), then an alternative would seem... also not so bad.

So if so many of of us would proclaim this, whether be ingredients, lung/vapor interaction, whatever we can claim "safe", "not safe", by whatever standards or standing? Few are doctors (and the gf in question is a health-care professional) here, and no doctor it seems can claim definitively anyway, so our advisement? It's limited at best.

This is my .02¢... I've helped my better half sort through the positives and negatives, and found that her sweet tooth has outlived her diet... we vape. We're happy.

 

[NancyR]

I have a short, simple explanation. Some people are just control freaks, plain and simple, and think they are morally superior.

So it is being a control freak to think NON-SMOKERS should wait and see what the FDA does and also for long term studies, as while we do know it is better for us than smoking cigs were, we don't know what this might do to us in 10, 15 or 20 years. Many things that where said to be safe turned out to kill people.

Not sucking chemicals into your lungs is always better than sucking chemicals into your lungs, even if they are "less harmful" chemicals. If you don't have a habit, why start one? Knowing what you know now, would you have EVER smoked that first cigarette?

So very true!!!!!!!!!

i liken it to alcoholics who switch from liquor to beer instead of just quitting alcohol entirely.

so going off that line of thought and knowing that beer will still kill an alcoholic, why are you vaping?

everyone is too worried about hurting feelings. if employers could bluntly tell people something like "hey, you eat nothing but garbage, never exercise, and smoke too much, and you're going to pay more for health insurance now because of it", labor attorneys would be swimming in pits of money, and it might actually get unhealthy people to take another look at their lifestyle choices. but they're being nice about it, and when the PPACA provisions about wellness, and using proactive services come into effect on 1/1/14, the healthy non-smokers will get a percentage discount off of their premium, and the unhealthy smokers will pay a non-discounted rate. similar to 'safe driving' discounts that car insurance companies are offering (all of what I mentioned about healthcare depends on the size of the employer and the state in which they are headquartered)

And you know what these people do? You can't tell just by looking at someone if they have unhealthy habits

i can understand people drinking odouls or decaf coffee in social situations, but vaping zero nicotine juice makes no sense to me.

I sometimes vape 0 nic as many of us have found it isn't even the nic that is our issue but the whole hand to mouth action that vaping gives us, so when I don't need the nic but would smoke without the hand to mouth why shouldn't I use 0 nic juices

 

[flintlock62]

OTOH, some things that have been said to kill people, turned out to be safe.

So it is being a control freak to think NON-SMOKERS should wait and see what the FDA does and also for long term studies, as while we do know it is better for us than smoking cigs were, we don't know what this might do to us in 10, 15 or 20 years. Many things that where said to be safe turned out to kill people.

 

[bazmonkey]

OTOH, some things that have been said to kill people, turned out to be safe.

Yes... but which one would you rather be wrong about?

Non-nicotine-addicted people shouldn't pick up the habit because it's better to not be addicted. That said, NONE of us *should* have picked up nicotine addiction to begin with! It's just what happens. Like someone on the first page said, no one starts smoking for a "good" reason.

It's completely possible to think about what people should and shouldn't do without being pretentious or morally superior. I should hope everyone has a strong opinion on it because I hope people give serious thought to questions about morality or ethics.

 

[IntelligentDesigner]

Because we want to be a clan of like-minded people with something in common; and having those pink-lunged hominids mixing and mingling with us contaminates our feelings of exclusivity and feeling special about something. "Gee, they'll let ANYBODY join this place, won't they?"

....at least that's the impression I get from some of the responses to the introductions I see from non smokers saying, "Hey, guys and gals! My name's Anna (any resemblance to any real "Anne" is purely coincidental)! I've never smoked cigarettes religiously, but this vaping hobby sure is fun and tasty and the community closeness I've been reading is amazing! I sure enjoy it and look forward to the experience!"

Then it's always followed by a *gasp!* "What?!?! You've never smoked?!?! You can't vape! [cop over the megaphone voice] Put down the vaporizer! Step away from the device! [people in background with Medieval accents and raspy voices] She's a wiiiitch!!! Buuun heh!!!"

Then Anne is all like, "Gee! Thanks for the warm welcome, folks. NOT! Fine then, I'll go grab a pack of cigarettes instead. They'll let ANYBODY join that place."