Why are so many people against non-smokers vaping?

[DC2]

I've gotta have some vice!

I liked your entire post, but I'm singling this part out because it speaks to me.

I too am always addicted to something, and have every intention of continuing to be addicted to something.
It is a need that I have, and always have had, for whatever reason.

I have come to terms with it long ago, and I really don't care if it has some deeper meaning.
And I have in fact come to feel that people who seek some sort of purity are boring at best and disturbing at worst.

Right now, I am not addicted to nicotine, or even vaping.
I am not even addicted to this forum, although I was addicted to another forum before this one.

Right now, I am addicted to activism, and preserving the right to vape for all smokers who have yet to switch.

Part of that involves connecting vapers with the information that already exists but they have not yet encountered.
And part if that involves encouraging vapers to stand up and be heard, and to fight for what is right.

This forum is just a means to serve that current addiction, which is why I am here all day, every day.

 

[DC2]

i can understand people drinking odouls or decaf coffee in social situations, but vaping zero nicotine juice makes no sense to me.

I'm just quoting this in the hope that reading it again will help me grasp what seems to be a very bizarre statement.

 

[Abe_Katz]

I've been reading this thread for some time now. Honestly I can not for the life of me understand the opposition of an adult Never-Smokers taking up vaping. Provided that the persons in question are adults, did their homework and know the potential risks (which in comparison to other vices is minimal) I don't see what the problem is.

The fact is that some people vape to get nicotine. I know I do. Other people vape because they like the flavor of the vapor (I do that too). And it is sensible to me that a never smoker would take up vaping for flavor reasons if they have a potentially more harmful addiction like to say sugar--for example a candy vape might satisfy someone's sweet tooth and obesity is probably far more harmful than vaping is.

When it comes to nicotine, I would not recommend someone who has never used nicotine to start using it. I would say the same for caffeine as well. But the fact is that adults, whether they smoke(d), or do not smoke should be free to choose to start vaping if they want to. They are adults and it is their body; if they have the right to cover themselves in tattoos or make their face look like a hardware store (both of which I do not understand, but again its their body)--they also have the right to fill their lungs with whatever they please and suck on a device that looks like a light-saber.

All of this said, I would say that if a never smoker was going to chose between vaping, or smoking, they should choose vaping. It is a less harmful option.

I think that some of the vitriol comes from vapers who used to smoke and couldn't quit smoking until vaping became an option. While I can understand where that vitriol is coming from, I was in those same shoes myself--I do not understand the vitriol itself. It is unnecessary, unwanted and unhelpful.

My opinion is simple, if you want to use nicotine and you're an adult vape, use snus, snuff (I'm refering to nasal snuff) or traditional American Oral ST instead of smoking. It is the smoke that is harmful in smoking. That is what science and reason tells us.

From where I sit it is neither my right nor duty to make judgments on the actions that others take that do no harm to anyone else. Vaping falls into that category.

 

[chrisvapo]

my dad never smoked because he thought they stank....he started vaping when my step mom quit smoking and started vaping....being he is in his mid 50s i say if he enjoys it go ahead

 

[tj99959]

I'm one that doesn't buy into e-cigs being "safe", they are just "safer" than smoking is all. So I would no more suggest taking up vaping than I would taking up smoking. To the person that is addicted to nicotine, they are a god send. For the person that is not addicted to nicotine, they are not.

 

[Rocketpunk]

use snus, snuff (I'm refering to nasal snuff) or traditional American Oral ST instead of smoking. It is the smoke that is harmful in smoking. That is what science and reason tells us.

Not sure if I'm sold on snus being a safer alternative. But I'm no expert.

Whenever I hear about snuff, I think of the Scarlet Pimpernel. Sorry, been a lit freak since I was yay high.

Summary, these are not my words:

Percy [aka the Scarlet Pimpernel] innocently asks Chauvelin if he would like to inhale a top-notch brand of snuff he acquired from abroad. Chauvelin falls for the trap, ends up inhaling pepper, and Percy calmly leaves the room as Chauvelin struggles -- just before the soldiers arrive.

 

[sonicdsl]

Not sure if I'm sold on snus being a safer alternative. But I'm no expert.

Whenever I hear about snuff, I think of the Scarlet Pimpernel. Sorry, been a lit freak since I was yay high.

Summary, these are not my words:

Percy [aka the Scarlet Pimpernel] innocently asks Chauvelin if he would like to inhale a top-notch brand of snuff he acquired from abroad. Chauvelin falls for the trap, ends up inhaling pepper, and Percy calmly leaves the room as Chauvelin struggles -- just before the soldiers arrive.

Check w/CASAA. They state that snus is at least 99% safer than smoking per Sweden's statistics after several decades of common use.

 

[Rocketpunk]

I'll look into that, but I don't doubt you.

So glad we have the option of an electronic cigarette and not Snus. I got a free tin or coupons for a free tin twice a month back in 2006. I was completely oblivious to e-cigs back then. I slipped it between my gum and bottom lip and sucked away during busy periods when I wanted to smoke, but couldn't.

I looked goofy doing it, I felt goofy doing it, it made my stomach feel like there were stalactites dripping down my internal organs... Also there was a noticeable bulge in my bottom lip. I slurred certain words every once in a while. Oftentimes it almost slipped out of my bottom lip while tending to customers. I looked goofy trying to lick it back into my gums with my tongue. I sounded like that rich Long Bottom Tooth character from Family Guy.

No, snus was not for me.

 

[Mud Pie]

Rocketpunk-

That Long Bottom Tooth reference was hilarious !! Only those that watch Family Guy will get the humor.

 

[p-doze]

I'm just quoting this in the hope that reading it again will help me grasp what seems to be a very bizarre statement.

decaf coffee and non-alcoholic beer contain small amounts of caffeine and alcohol, but neither will keep you awake or get you drunk. vaping zero nicotine e-liquid does nothing except cost the user money. if it's an oral fixation thing, chew on toothpick or a pen. but to circle back to the OP's comment about non-smokers taking up vaping, it would be assumed that they don't have an oral fixation or nicotine addiction that stems from prior cigarette use.

 

[pcrdude]

I don't have a problem with an adult making the choice to start smoking, chewing, vaping, or using anything else they want. If an adult decides to try vaping with the (not proven) assumption that it is totally safe, I would try and educate them on what is known and not known at this time. If they know the risks (with or without me telling them), and decide to start vaping, then more power to them.

It's their choice, but they should know the facts.

YMMV

 

[greenman]

If somebody wants to vape then vape, I'm not their father. If some body asks for my opinion then I would advise against it, that's if they ask of course.

 

[kristin]

vaping zero nicotine e-liquid does nothing except cost the user money. if it's an oral fixation thing, chew on toothpick or a pen. .

Isn't that the same thing ANTZ tell smokers? Just find a new fixation?

If I have learned anything from almost 4 years in this community, its that all smokers smoke for different reasons, based on the wide variety of vaping preferences. To assume, like the ANTZ, that the only reason we smoked - and want to vape - is because of nicotine is not only wrong but dangerous. That idea has killed millions of smokers who struggled and failed trying nicotine weaning products.

Why would someone who smoked mostly because of oral fixation or because they simply liked smoking, enjoy chewing on a pencil or toothpick instead - anymore than someone who smoked for nicotine would enjoy nicotine gum or a patch? People who smoked because of an oral fixation want something enjoyable and as close to their smoking experience as those who smoked for nicotine do!

Although, I do dislike paying the same for non-nicotine liquid as nicotine liquid. Its like paying the same for a glass of coke as for a rum & coke! Which is one reason I vape 6 mg and not 0 mg, lol! (I get that its a great deal for those who vape the high strengths though. Although, making it cheaper with 0 nicotine might be considered responsible THR policy. )

 

[Topwater Elvis]

My objection to non smokers/tobacco product users starting to vape has nothing at all to do with my personal opinions.

One of the main points the FDA is using to gain control / regulate / ban / restrict vaping is that it attracts people that would have never considered using any type of tobacco product.

There are a lot of us that see vaping as a viable smoking secession / tobacco harm reduction tool, not a recreational activity.
For some of us it is the only one that has been successful after all conventional methods have been tried and proven to be unsuccessful.
Some of us strongly object to anything that furthers the FDA's stance against the 'free market system' vaping has in this country today and turns it into an outrageously taxed, scrutinized and controlled cluster flop that our Gov't is famous for creating via regulation.

Every non smoker / tobacco user that picks up an ecig and starts vaping ( 0 nic included) is another point in the FDA's win column which reinforces their control / regulate / ban / restrict campaign while weakening our side of the argument.

 

[pcrdude]

My objection to non smokers/tobacco product users starting to vape has nothing at all to do with my personal opinions.

One of the main points the FDA is using to gain control / regulate / ban / restrict vaping is that it attracts people that would have never considered using any type of tobacco product.

There are a lot of us that see vaping as a viable smoking secession / tobacco harm reduction tool, not a recreational activity.
For some of us it is the only one that has been successful after all conventional methods have been tried and proven to be unsuccessful.
Some of us strongly object to anything that furthers the FDA's stance against the 'free market system' vaping has in this country today and turns it into an outrageously taxed, scrutinized and controlled cluster flop that our Gov't is famous for creating via regulation.

Every non smoker / tobacco user that picks up an ecig and starts vaping ( 0 nic included) is another point in the FDA's win column which reinforces their control / regulate / ban / restrict campaign while weakening our side of the argument.

Although those are very good points, one could slide down that slippery slope, and apply the same logic to fruity alcoholic beverages. People need to be held respinsible for their own decisions. Vaping, smoking, drinking, speeding, etc. ad nauseum.

Just sayin'

 

[Bosco]

I would not advise a non-smoker to take up vaping. Only speaking for myself . .it's not a control thing .. it's just that, as somebody who has a nicotine addiction, I don't find it a nice thing to have and would not recommend it for others.

If I could go back and never smoke - I would. If I never smoked, I wouldn't vape. The novelty of playing with a fun device and tasty juices wears off . .nicotine addiction does not.

Vaping non-nicotine is fine, in my opinion . .although I have to admit I'm kind of confused why somebody would want to . .but if they did, then I would say "go for it".

 

[kristin]

The ANTZ claim over 1,200 non-smoking people a DAY become regular daily smokers and another 2,000 or so try smoking. That is in spite of all of the warnings. Are we really going to lie and pretend none of those people will try vaping instead - especially if we achieve our goal and prove that vaping carries very low health risks?

The argument that those who would otherwise not use nicotine when it was thought to be dangerous will now try or use it if they think it is relatively safe is a red herring argument the ANTZ have been using against tobacco harm reduction policies for years before e-cigs even came on the market. It would be a valid argument IF 1,200 people a day weren't still becoming smokers.

The ANTZ argue there will be a health "loss" if more people start using tobacco and nicotine products they believe are safer, even with the lives saved from smokers switching too. This claim simply isn't based in science. Dr. Phillips, who is a respected epidemiologist and CASAA's Science Director, has calculated that it would take hundreds, if not thousands, of people using these products regularly PER SMOKER switching to even come close to cancelling out the health GAIN.

To make an extremely simplified analogy, if e-cigs are 99% safer than smoking, say it would take 99 people who otherwise wouldn't have used e-cigs to equal the public health risks of one smoker. (Its actually many more than that - I cant recall the exact figure he calculated.) That would mean, for those new users to cancel out the health gain of one smoker quitting, 99 would have to start vaping. That is highly unlikely to happen. Maybe one or two more per smoker but not 99. On the national scale, with the ANTZ's theory, if every smoker switched to vaping, in excess of 425 million non-smokers would have to start vaping to create a "health loss". (There's only about 314 million men, women and children in the US.)

Rather than fearing that ANTZ lie being used against us, we should be telling the public the truth.

The clearest response to the ANTZ complaint that non-smokers will start vaping is, "You still have 1,200 people A DAY becoming regular smokers and you are worried that a few people MIGHT start using a smoke-free nicotine device? Seriously?"

 

[DC2]

Although those are very good points, one could slide down that slippery slope, and apply the same logic to fruity alcoholic beverages. People need to be held respinsible for their own decisions. Vaping, smoking, drinking, speeding, etc. ad nauseum.

Just sayin'

From your lips to ANTZ ears.

 

[p-doze]

Isn't that the same thing ANTZ tell smokers? Just find a new fixation?

If I have learned anything from almost 4 years in this community, its that all smokers smoke for different reasons, based on the wide variety of vaping preferences. To assume, like the ANTZ, that the only reason we smoked - and want to vape - is because of nicotine is not only wrong but dangerous. That idea has killed millions of smokers who struggled and failed trying nicotine weaning products.

not exactly. my post was based on a non-smoker who took an interest in vaping. i looked at the question through the lens of an informed adult making the decision to take up vaping, rather than a teenager who decided to try vaping instead of smoking during their first foray into nicotine. i have a sneaking suspicion that cigarettes are still the preferred nicotine delivery system for teenagers, and that vaping anything besides a blu is looked upon as a little nerdy. not that the cool-factor of vaping matters to me now, but it certainly would have been when i was 16, and IMO, is the reason teens choose smoking or dip, rather than chewing tobacco or pipe tobacco. and most people's first cigarette isn't purchased by them. it's given to them from a friend, or stolen from a family member who smokes. it's not going to be as easy for a 16 year old to steal their father's provari.

 

[DC2]

The clearest response to the ANTZ complaint that non-smokers will start vaping is, "You still have 1,200 people A DAY becoming regular smokers and you are worried that a few people MIGHT start using a smoke-free nicotine device? Seriously?"

Perfect Kristin, thank you.