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Well, we don't know the long term effects. Vaping hasn't even been around all that long. I could not bring myself to recommend a non-smoker take up vaping. I don't know what the effects will be. I'm betting on vaping being less harmful than tobacco. Not "safe" but safer. I think it's a good bet. At least, so far, it's been a very good bet. I sleep better, breathe better, don't get "winded" like I used to, have a lot more energy, blood pressure's down, you name it.
But what's the long term effect of inhaling PG or VG or combinations in vapor form?
Nobody knows.
(Nor what the effect of the flavorings may be or the long term effects of absorbing nicotine this way or any number of things)
That said, an adult non-smoker can take it up if they want and it's not my business. I'm just not going to "participate". And I'm going to express the opinion of "why take the risk?" Because... I don't know what the risks are. I don't know anybody does yet.
While the first patent for a vaping device was filed around 1963, it wasn't until about 2003 practical systems hit the market. So we're talking a decade? That's all the "experience" we have with this thing. Tobacco, well, that's been around for centuries. And there's decades of experience and research on its effects.
I look at it as I would be inviting someone to take a gamble when I don't even know what that gamble is nor what the odds are. I'm just not going to do that.
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I vape because it appears safer than smoking. I don't quit vaping because I enjoy the mechanics of vaping. I was a 2 PAD smoker for over 30 years.
I hate to see anyone take up smoking or vaping if they don't already have the habit. It seems a waste either way. Not vaping is better than vaping and vaping is better than smoking. If you don't do either, why start?
I suspect that many people who think vaping is dumb are former smokers who quit but never lost the desire to inhale and exhale something. Jealousy, maybe? One of my bosses was an ANTZ who formerly smoked and hated to be around anyone who did. In a weak moment he admitted to me that some days when he smelled cigarette smoke it smelled so inviting that he felt like he could eat a pack of them.
Some of my non-smoking friends call it my "fake cigarette" and get a laugh out of that. I've never used smokeless tobacco, but can't for the life of me understand people who do, except to get off the smokes. Then, I wonder why they still chew.
I hate to see anyone take up smoking or vaping if they don't already have the habit. It seems a waste either way. Not vaping is better than vaping and vaping is better than smoking. If you don't do either, why start?
I suspect that many people who think vaping is dumb are former smokers who quit but never lost the desire to inhale and exhale something. Jealousy, maybe? One of my bosses was an ANTZ who formerly smoked and hated to be around anyone who did. In a weak moment he admitted to me that some days when he smelled cigarette smoke it smelled so inviting that he felt like he could eat a pack of them.
Some of my non-smoking friends call it my "fake cigarette" and get a laugh out of that. I've never used smokeless tobacco, but can't for the life of me understand people who do, except to get off the smokes. Then, I wonder why they still chew.
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As of today, you have the right to vape. As a 60 year old 43 year smoker, I have a right to give my opinion. If you don't smoke, don't vape.
yeah that's the funny thing.. most people if you told them smokers were driving up their group policies at work, would suddenly want to fire the smokers.. not realizing that most of them are in fact socialists. We seem to be a country in denial of our social policies, reducing the term to a bad word.. but never realizing that "every man for himself" just doesn't work, except in the movies.
Sorry to hijack the thread, carry on!
I'm against people starting a nicotine addiction
When I was only a smoker, I would tell EVERYONE not to do it, because I couldn't quit [many failed attempts]
I tried cold turkey [will], nic gum, even Prescription drugs.
Vaping did it, smoke free well over 3 months, much happier now. But why would I want anyone to get addicted to this drug? If people want to vape, who are not addicted to nic already, I explain, if you want the look, the great flavor, and maybe even the 'fun' hobby, vape 0 nic
And as someone who still has this addiction to nic, I feel I'm in the right to warn people away from it.
When I was only a smoker, I would tell EVERYONE not to do it, because I couldn't quit [many failed attempts]
I tried cold turkey [will], nic gum, even Prescription drugs.
Vaping did it, smoke free well over 3 months, much happier now. But why would I want anyone to get addicted to this drug? If people want to vape, who are not addicted to nic already, I explain, if you want the look, the great flavor, and maybe even the 'fun' hobby, vape 0 nic
And as someone who still has this addiction to nic, I feel I'm in the right to warn people away from it.
everyone is too worried about hurting feelings. if employers could bluntly tell people something like "hey, you eat nothing but garbage, never exercise, and smoke too much, and you're going to pay more for health insurance now because of it", labor attorneys would be swimming in pits of money, and it might actually get unhealthy people to take another look at their lifestyle choices. but they're being nice about it, and when the PPACA provisions about wellness, and using proactive services come into effect on 1/1/14, the healthy non-smokers will get a percentage discount off of their premium, and the unhealthy smokers will pay a non-discounted rate. similar to 'safe driving' discounts that car insurance companies are offering (all of what I mentioned about healthcare depends on the size of the employer and the state in which they are headquartered)
If the option were available I would've started with vaping. Honestly, I like the effects of nicotine much the same as I enjoy the effects of caffeine. And the other perk with this is the vapour gives roughly the same visual appearance of smoke, which is another thing I liked. If not that same option, I would've more than likely picked up pipe tobacco as a habit.
But I know I am an odd ball case when faced with that question, the only thing I didn't enjoy about smoking was how it affected me health wise (And I noticed this more so because I was smoking and doing martial arts for the longest times) and the quickly rising costs of a pack of smokes.
Thats not the case at all.
Many of us were smokers for years and years.We hated what it was doing to us when we could even admit it to ourselves.Many of us tried everything under the sun to quit and then finally found the miracle of vaping. We went from something thats horrendously unhealthy,staring at a slow and painful death from cancer or emphysema and not being able to stop to actually being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel, a way out and a healthier alternative.
When we see someone who's never smoked take up vaping its only natural to caution them against doing so.Not only is not as healthy as just breathing but theres a chance that non-smokers will use vaping as a springboard to smoking.
If you cant see thats just twisted and wrong then theres no help for you.
Thats not being morally superior thats just having common sense.
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Agreed, although they've tried everything (except banning) to stop kids smoking, what a great success that's been!
I would much rather people started vaping than smoking, but I'm selfish and think this would be another nail in the coffin for vaping.
People are stupid, I know I was full of stupid at 15 thought it was great idea to start smoking, it wasn't wish I could speak with myself then. I probably wouldn't have listened even to me.
Tried to stop my daughter smoking, failed but did move her quickly onto vaping and her boyfriend so a partial victory.
I would much rather people started vaping than smoking, but I'm selfish and think this would be another nail in the coffin for vaping.
People are stupid, I know I was full of stupid at 15 thought it was great idea to start smoking, it wasn't wish I could speak with myself then. I probably wouldn't have listened even to me.
Tried to stop my daughter smoking, failed but did move her quickly onto vaping and her boyfriend so a partial victory.
Ah yes, forgot about our struggles with the FDA. This just always makes me wish I could ask the FDA why they want to fight so much against eCigs but never seemingly raise so much as a finger against big tobacco companies and get a response. You know, in that naive way were I don't know how money controls everything.
I don't think vaping can, logically, be either recommended nor discouraged when it comes to a non-smoker starting it differentiating them from a potential x-smoker. Each case is different depending on the person's motivation. But I would certainly discourage taking up nicotine to anyone. I don't see vaping, nic or not, as a moral issue though but understand that some do. That's just the kind of people they are. Its the acceptable bigotry of the day spurred on by the propaganda of those seeking control for various reasons. Tomorrow it will be certain foods and next day caffeine. No? Well, why is it some don't let their kids have sugar or coffee? Insurance is only the very logical sounding tool used to get people who otherwise would see what's being done to their minds over to the socialist controlling viewpoint. Any behavior, and I do mean any, can be spun into affecting others in the their pockets. IE: I would like to see Californians have to pay higher insurance rates under Obama care since they live in the smoggiest State in the Union 
and, oh, that goes for those residing in Colorado too considering their changes in the law... talk about lung damage.... and, oh, violent-crime statistics where you live should be considered to put you in the underwriter's higher risk category... Chicago and Detroit residents should definitely be charged more. If you want lower premiums... move!... its your choice to live in those places. And... if you ever called a cop in a domestic dispute you're living in a situation with the potential of really affecting my insurance rates... get a divorce or counseling if you don't want to pay higher premiums. To some these sound ridiculous. To others they either sound plausible already or will when the brain washers get done with them. Back to the OP... vaping is not synonymous with nicotine use.
and, oh, that goes for those residing in Colorado too considering their changes in the law... talk about lung damage.... and, oh, violent-crime statistics where you live should be considered to put you in the underwriter's higher risk category... Chicago and Detroit residents should definitely be charged more. If you want lower premiums... move!... its your choice to live in those places. And... if you ever called a cop in a domestic dispute you're living in a situation with the potential of really affecting my insurance rates... get a divorce or counseling if you don't want to pay higher premiums. To some these sound ridiculous. To others they either sound plausible already or will when the brain washers get done with them. Back to the OP... vaping is not synonymous with nicotine use.
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My question to them is why is Chantix on the market?
The number of suicides and psychotic breaks on Chantix are appalling. Also, scared me from ever going near the stuff. Read an account by a smoker who was trying to quit with Chantix and it was total Alice in Wonderland (except way more nightmarish). The bit I will never forget is his comment that despite knowing full well how nuts it was, one day he could not shake the feeling he'd been raped by his toaster oven.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Manipulating neurotransmitters is a risky business. We know very little about the matter. There are cases in which it is worth the risk such as using SSRIs (Zoloft for example) to help people with serious depression but we're still at a stage where if you read the literature, the comments are such as, "We think it does..."
No, literally. Nobody really knows how SSRIs work. We just don't understand the brain all that well yet.
And while there may be long term risks to vaping, I highly doubt it's liable to lead to me blowing my brains out. Chantix? Not so sure. People do so. Enough even the FDA made Pfizer put a "black box" warning on the drug.
But I could get a Chantix prescription in all of five minutes. My doc has been pestering me about quitting (wait until my next visit
). I'm sure he'd write one out in half a sec if I asked. But the stuff scares the daylights outta me. Especially because I tried Zyban once and started having borderline hallucinations (I would be convinced somebody was breaking into my house even though I could not see nor hear anything... it was deeply weird).My attitude toward the FDA is, "Talk to me after you pull Chantix off the market, not before."
Totally agree with you!!! All of a sudden, some of us vapers, have become holier than thou ex-smokers. We all smoked for years knowing how it affected our health and stood our ground because we had a right to smoke if we wanted to. If the person is an adult, they are free to choose (isn't that what individual freedom is about?)
I totally agree with you but (LOL) as a vaper I now understand the health consequences of smoking more than I ever did as a smoker. I've now had personal experience with improved health vaping. I, truly, did not know that all the lung congestion and tiredness and just generally feeling comparatively awful was coming from smoking. My step-daughter has fibromyalgia. She and I smoked together. I introduced her to vaping and it took. Her fibro was getting better and she was decreasing meds for it but, then, her smoker son moved in with her, way too easily convinced her that vaping was dangerous, and she went back to smoking. Am I to remain silent now when hearing that vaping is more dangerous to people's health than smoking in order to justify her continued smoking? Where do I draw the line? She had proof that smoking made her condition worse and now smoking has put her right back where she was. She wants to smoke and her son wants company in his addiction so now I'm the one risking my health by vaping? That's it plain and simple. Now, when we visit, I vape and she smokes. Neither of us say a word but there is obvious tension in the air. Its sad.
Edit because after a phone call I read what I said. I did not mean to come across as an obnoxious x-smoker. I didn't want people pestering or judging me as a smoker (I still smoke a few so still am one technically) but its pretty hard to stay silent when I'm the one under the microscope of a smoker and I'm concerned about a loved-one's health. Maybe someone should start support groups for what would be Alanons in AA and vapers could get the tools to deal with the issues. There are even support groups for the families of diabetics who won't control their blood sugars.
Edit because after a phone call I read what I said. I did not mean to come across as an obnoxious x-smoker. I didn't want people pestering or judging me as a smoker (I still smoke a few so still am one technically) but its pretty hard to stay silent when I'm the one under the microscope of a smoker and I'm concerned about a loved-one's health. Maybe someone should start support groups for what would be Alanons in AA and vapers could get the tools to deal with the issues. There are even support groups for the families of diabetics who won't control their blood sugars.
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Indeed, and thus none of our business until such time as that Individual asks for one's opinion or seeks advice, at that point does one sit back and say: Hell it's as safe as houses, or, does one ask the individual to consider the choice they are about to make?
My question to them is why is Chantix on the market?
The number of suicides and psychotic breaks on Chantix are appalling. Also, scared me from ever going near the stuff. Read an account by a smoker who was trying to quit with Chantix and it was total Alice in Wonderland (except way more nightmarish). The bit I will never forget is his comment that despite knowing full well how nuts it was, one day he could not shake the feeling he'd been raped by his toaster oven.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Manipulating neurotransmitters is a risky business. We know very little about the matter. There are cases in which it is worth the risk such as using SSRIs (Zoloft for example) to help people with serious depression but we're still at a stage where if you read the literature, the comments are such as, "We think it does..."
No, literally. Nobody really knows how SSRIs work. We just don't understand the brain all that well yet.
And while there may be long term risks to vaping, I highly doubt it's liable to lead to me blowing my brains out. Chantix? Not so sure. People do so. Enough even the FDA made Pfizer put a "black box" warning on the drug.
But I could get a Chantix prescription in all of five minutes. My doc has been pestering me about quitting (wait until my next visit
My attitude toward the FDA is, "Talk to me after you pull Chantix off the market, not before."
Hey I found your post very interesting! When discussing last year with my doctor about quitting smoking, we decided that since I also had some mild anxiety, that we would try Wellbutrin, which is another "we think it curbs nicotine withdraw..." drug.
Almost two weeks into taking it, I felt despair, complete and utter despair.. I wanted to just kill myself. Went to a HS reunion and was buzz killington, talked about not wanting to live anymore, etc.. Sadly, nobody actually did anything to stop me, but I realized late that night that it was the drug.. I took myself off it and was back to my normal, life-loving, laid back self with mild anxiety about 3-4 days later.
The FDA is a joke, and killing people is just a cost of doing business to the big pharma companies. I'm glad they don't have their hands in the vape industry, and pray they never do.. God knows what chemicals they would conspire to put in the juice!
Ultimately, I'm not going to judge someone if they choose to do it. I don't exclusively see vaping as a means to stop smoking; it's a different experience and a different hobby (whereas smoking -- for most people at least -- is just there to sate your addiction).
That said, I cannot really recommend to anyone to start vaping juice with nicotine if they don't already smoke. As someone earlier in the thread mentioned, I won't go on a major crusade about it, but ultimately, I can't recommend it or support it.
That said, I cannot really recommend to anyone to start vaping juice with nicotine if they don't already smoke. As someone earlier in the thread mentioned, I won't go on a major crusade about it, but ultimately, I can't recommend it or support it.
I wouldn't recommend vaping to anyone other than a smoker. I don't know the long term risks with vaping but I'm sure they are less than smoking, so, at a push, I would say vape rather than smoke. I would try and say don't do either but then it's really not my business unless I'm asked to comment.
Just remember, we were all non-smokers once. And we all had our own motivations for both taking that first drag and continuing to take them until we couldn't do without.
If the choice is between someone smoking their first cig or skipping right to vaping, well I know what my advice would be.
If the choice is between someone smoking their first cig or skipping right to vaping, well I know what my advice would be.
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