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Snus is used in the upper lip so as to not require spitting. When it is properly situated in the upper lip you can't even notice a difference in appearance or speech.
Dip on the other hand is used in the bottom lip and requires spitting.
Dip, chew and snus are all oral ST but each is used differently. I was never really much a fan of oral ST due to the spitting until I was introduced to snus. I don't know anything about the dissolvables other than they taste like chewing on a dutch treat to me--I didn't enjoy them when I tried.
Nasal snuff on the other hand does tend to mess with one's sinuses and I've never used it except for those places where I couldn't smoke as a substitute for smoking. Well I also use nasal snuff still on occasion, mostly when I'm working outside. Basically I was stuck with smoking until the PV was invented.
Yes, but then that would be freedom and so many people just can't tolerate that.
Cause if I would not have started smoking 20 yrs ago I would not be vapeing. That's what's against ecigs that people who don't smoke vape so now it's another addiction on the market.Would you wear the patch not being a smoker.Its ment to be a aid for smokers who have tried everything to quit smoking,not to get addicted to vapeing.
I started reading at the beginning of this thread and got half way through when I decided to give my perspective on the topic.
My 17 y/o daughter will very soon turn 18. She is a non-smoker, but most of her friends her age and a little older do smoke. Her older brother just took up smoking at age 19. She's a pretty mature and responsible person for her age and probably is not in any danger to take up smoking herself. But next year she will be away at college and who knows what influences could change that. I never thought my son would start smoking, and he did.
My daughter and I have a close relationship. She takes an interest in my vaping hobby, and often wishes to "sample" new flavors that I get. She has begun asking me for her own mod to use no-nicotine flavors. My response has always been, when you turn 18 you can do what you want as you will then be an adult to make decisions on your own.
A few of her smoking friends have observed me vaping, and I have allowed them to try my PV's. A few of them liked it, and were able to secure their own e-cigarettes on their own without my help or encouragement. They say they prefer vaping to smoking, realizing that it is healthier and less expensive than tobacco smoking. Looking upon this, I see a moral victory of sorts.
Back to my daughter. When I ask her why she wants to vape, she says she enjoys it. She enjoys the flavors, and would probably find the behavior relaxing and help her satisfy her sweet tooth for candy and snacking on unhealthy things. She once asked if I were to drop my nic level down to zero would I continue to vape because of enjoyment. I said I likely would. She said that is no different than if she were to begin vaping 0 nicotine. Enjoyment.
I know there have been no long term studies on the safety of e-liquids over time. Fact is, we consume plenty into our bodies that are likely more harmful than that on a daily basis. As long as people are aware that any substance that enters our body can have a negative effect, I believe they should have the right to choose for themselves.
This is a 180 degree turnaround in perspective for me. I had been against non-smokers taking up vaping, even if it was with 0 % nicotine. This perspective was fueled by how ANTZ and the FDA might use this situation to their benefit. But as Kristin pointed out so well, those two organizations will twist the truth to their benefit no matter what the facts are, so why worry about them?
I would rather my daughter have a vaping device with 0mg nicotine to use should she ever be tempted by peers or whatever to try smoking.
My 17 y/o daughter will very soon turn 18. She is a non-smoker, but most of her friends her age and a little older do smoke. Her older brother just took up smoking at age 19. She's a pretty mature and responsible person for her age and probably is not in any danger to take up smoking herself. But next year she will be away at college and who knows what influences could change that. I never thought my son would start smoking, and he did.
My daughter and I have a close relationship. She takes an interest in my vaping hobby, and often wishes to "sample" new flavors that I get. She has begun asking me for her own mod to use no-nicotine flavors. My response has always been, when you turn 18 you can do what you want as you will then be an adult to make decisions on your own.
A few of her smoking friends have observed me vaping, and I have allowed them to try my PV's. A few of them liked it, and were able to secure their own e-cigarettes on their own without my help or encouragement. They say they prefer vaping to smoking, realizing that it is healthier and less expensive than tobacco smoking. Looking upon this, I see a moral victory of sorts.
Back to my daughter. When I ask her why she wants to vape, she says she enjoys it. She enjoys the flavors, and would probably find the behavior relaxing and help her satisfy her sweet tooth for candy and snacking on unhealthy things. She once asked if I were to drop my nic level down to zero would I continue to vape because of enjoyment. I said I likely would. She said that is no different than if she were to begin vaping 0 nicotine. Enjoyment.
I know there have been no long term studies on the safety of e-liquids over time. Fact is, we consume plenty into our bodies that are likely more harmful than that on a daily basis. As long as people are aware that any substance that enters our body can have a negative effect, I believe they should have the right to choose for themselves.
This is a 180 degree turnaround in perspective for me. I had been against non-smokers taking up vaping, even if it was with 0 % nicotine. This perspective was fueled by how ANTZ and the FDA might use this situation to their benefit. But as Kristin pointed out so well, those two organizations will twist the truth to their benefit no matter what the facts are, so why worry about them?
I would rather my daughter have a vaping device with 0mg nicotine to use should she ever be tempted by peers or whatever to try smoking.
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This is a very good topic... and both sides of the argument are correct in a sense
If you dont have a nicotine addiction why start one?
But the way of the world these days, people and young adults are always going to be drug habit curious, and of course its much better they have a vape habit rather than a smoking habit.
Nicotine its self is as harmless and only moderately more addictive than caffeine. The real addictive properties of a cigarette come from the strong combination of nicotine and the MOAI's, which creates a supposed behavioural addiction similar to a ....... or .......
The real concern i think, is that a non-smoker starting a vape habit, will lead them into a smoking habit. So a simple and harmless vape/nic addiction leads into an ultimately dangerous and costly smoking addiction.
BOTTOM LINE, if you want to start vaping, i think thats great. Just DON'T let your vape habit turn into a smoking habit. Personally i love nicotine, as being someone with depressive and Attention Deficit qualities, nicotine really helps me day to day.
Slum
If you dont have a nicotine addiction why start one?
But the way of the world these days, people and young adults are always going to be drug habit curious, and of course its much better they have a vape habit rather than a smoking habit.
Nicotine its self is as harmless and only moderately more addictive than caffeine. The real addictive properties of a cigarette come from the strong combination of nicotine and the MOAI's, which creates a supposed behavioural addiction similar to a ....... or .......
The real concern i think, is that a non-smoker starting a vape habit, will lead them into a smoking habit. So a simple and harmless vape/nic addiction leads into an ultimately dangerous and costly smoking addiction.
BOTTOM LINE, if you want to start vaping, i think thats great. Just DON'T let your vape habit turn into a smoking habit. Personally i love nicotine, as being someone with depressive and Attention Deficit qualities, nicotine really helps me day to day.
Slum
I really don't think vaping would lead to smoking. Vaping tastes good. Smoking does not and tastes even worse if what you're used to is vaping. In order for anything to become addictive, it has to be pleasant/rewarding first to get you hooked. Smoking after vaping sure isn't and I doubt anyone but someone already addicted to smoking would find it so and even they don't taste-wise after vaping.
Actually, smoking being a bad experience is not something that stops people from smoking. Smoking tobacco was never pleasant for me. At most, it was just something to get around to get to the enjoyable things.
Since vaping provides the enjoyable things without the bad taste, I don't see it leading to tobacco. People's "friends" and peer pressure will do that all too often.
Since vaping provides the enjoyable things without the bad taste, I don't see it leading to tobacco. People's "friends" and peer pressure will do that all too often.
I agree its hard to tell if a vape habit could turn into a smoking habit...
But everyone in the vaping community must know by now... that even if 1 in 10 new vapers (original non smokers) developed a smoking addiction, then that would be a massive FAIL for the entire campaign against proposed bans on e-liquids... as this is one of the major concerns of all the haters out there, and stats like this they will use against the legality of electronic cigarettes.
I think that right now is a delicate time in the vaping world, governments have the motivation to ban them just for the sake of financial and tax issues. i think every smoker who has had their life changed by vaping all need to take responsibility for the way they advocate and promote the product. Sure, we on the forums who actively research and share knowledge on vaping are well informed, we all know vaping is relatively harmless to a new user, but lets not throw fuel on the fire for those who are anti-vaping!
Vaping is advertised as the safer alternative to smoking... i think we should keep it that way for now. if you havnt smoked, you dont need an alternative.
Ofcourse everybody has free will to do what they wish... the most important thing is that any new non-smoker vapor's actively read up on forums like this what they are getting themselves into and how to use it safely. last thing we need is some idiot pulling some stupid stunt and overdosing on Nicotine, and vaping as a whole receiving bad press.
But everyone in the vaping community must know by now... that even if 1 in 10 new vapers (original non smokers) developed a smoking addiction, then that would be a massive FAIL for the entire campaign against proposed bans on e-liquids... as this is one of the major concerns of all the haters out there, and stats like this they will use against the legality of electronic cigarettes.
I think that right now is a delicate time in the vaping world, governments have the motivation to ban them just for the sake of financial and tax issues. i think every smoker who has had their life changed by vaping all need to take responsibility for the way they advocate and promote the product. Sure, we on the forums who actively research and share knowledge on vaping are well informed, we all know vaping is relatively harmless to a new user, but lets not throw fuel on the fire for those who are anti-vaping!
Vaping is advertised as the safer alternative to smoking... i think we should keep it that way for now. if you havnt smoked, you dont need an alternative.
Ofcourse everybody has free will to do what they wish... the most important thing is that any new non-smoker vapor's actively read up on forums like this what they are getting themselves into and how to use it safely. last thing we need is some idiot pulling some stupid stunt and overdosing on Nicotine, and vaping as a whole receiving bad press.
@ kena,
i started smoking when i was around 20. most my life, i had been around passive smoking from family, friends, girlfriends, and truth be told i actively hated smoking, i thought it was a disgusting habit. i was going through a particularly stressful time in my life, and i wasnt around any peer pressures it the time, but for one reason or another, i was craving cigarettes. i bought a pack, it killed my lungs, i hated the taste, but loved the effect, and with a click of fate i became a full blown smoker.
My point is, that our brains work in mysterious ways, psychological, behavioural, and physical. vaping promotes all three categories similar to smoking and is easily transferable, hence why it has been such an effecting quit smoking aid. The only reason many of us became vapers is because we wanted to kick the smoking habit after many years and noticeably decreased health.... and ofcourse cost. i think that as a non smoker, you dont really fully understand what the big deal is about smoking, and the reasons we start it and eventually we all want to quit, until you actually have become a smoker, like many of us here have.
Scenario... guy takes up vaping, likes the nicotine, makes it a habit... goies out with friends drinking, his battery dies out, or he is embarrassed to smoke an e-cig in front of them, but is craving a nic hit... he buys cigarettes... he smokes with some discomfort, but ultimately he gets fulfils his craving. smoking becomes more acceptable to him, especially out and about and cant be bothered purchasing new carts, or carrying an e-pen with large battery. smoking becomes more of a regular habit
i dont know about you, but i see this a real possible thing to happen if an uneducated non-smoker takes up vaping
Anyway... just my rambling thoughts
i started smoking when i was around 20. most my life, i had been around passive smoking from family, friends, girlfriends, and truth be told i actively hated smoking, i thought it was a disgusting habit. i was going through a particularly stressful time in my life, and i wasnt around any peer pressures it the time, but for one reason or another, i was craving cigarettes. i bought a pack, it killed my lungs, i hated the taste, but loved the effect, and with a click of fate i became a full blown smoker.
My point is, that our brains work in mysterious ways, psychological, behavioural, and physical. vaping promotes all three categories similar to smoking and is easily transferable, hence why it has been such an effecting quit smoking aid. The only reason many of us became vapers is because we wanted to kick the smoking habit after many years and noticeably decreased health.... and ofcourse cost. i think that as a non smoker, you dont really fully understand what the big deal is about smoking, and the reasons we start it and eventually we all want to quit, until you actually have become a smoker, like many of us here have.
Scenario... guy takes up vaping, likes the nicotine, makes it a habit... goies out with friends drinking, his battery dies out, or he is embarrassed to smoke an e-cig in front of them, but is craving a nic hit... he buys cigarettes... he smokes with some discomfort, but ultimately he gets fulfils his craving. smoking becomes more acceptable to him, especially out and about and cant be bothered purchasing new carts, or carrying an e-pen with large battery. smoking becomes more of a regular habit
i dont know about you, but i see this a real possible thing to happen if an uneducated non-smoker takes up vaping
Anyway... just my rambling thoughts
Sorry... can't buy the "1 in 10" nor the "massive FAIL".... if 9 people choose to vape INSTEAD of smoking, that's a massive SUCCESS in my book. These proposed percentages were just pulled out of the air of course but here's the deal. If anyone is contemplating smoking and chooses to try vaping first then compares the experience after trying smoking, they're most likely going to choose vaping over smoking. That is unless there's something seriously wrong with their sense of taste. If, however, they choose smoking first, they're going to get hooked on the BT additives as so many of the smokers/xsmokers here did... that's gauranteed. If they simply like nic they won't tolerate the bad taste of smoking when they could be getting that in a good taste.... period. I think all this chicken little talk about vaping leading to smoking is just ANTZ propaganda.
Yup patkin, i agree.
yes the 1 in 10 was pulled out of thin air, as this all is just speculations and opinions at the moment. im just saying we need to protect vaping and dont give fuel to those who want to ban vaping. to them... the 1 in 10 isnt 9 people who avoided smoking. its 10 more people ho developed a nicotine addiction, and 9 of them through a more appealing route. Due to all the bad propaganda on smoking, to the common person its widely believed nicotine is the big bad culprit of smoking. people who contest us just dont know better. today through all the propaganda, smoking as become a massive taboo, and smokers looked down upon in many circumstances. making nicotine addiction and casual ingestion commonly acceptable, even if through a safer method, isnt something that will happen worldwide over night.
Ahh, i wish the world was more of a liberal place when it came to drugs.... i do have a special affinity for them
yes the 1 in 10 was pulled out of thin air, as this all is just speculations and opinions at the moment. im just saying we need to protect vaping and dont give fuel to those who want to ban vaping. to them... the 1 in 10 isnt 9 people who avoided smoking. its 10 more people ho developed a nicotine addiction, and 9 of them through a more appealing route. Due to all the bad propaganda on smoking, to the common person its widely believed nicotine is the big bad culprit of smoking. people who contest us just dont know better. today through all the propaganda, smoking as become a massive taboo, and smokers looked down upon in many circumstances. making nicotine addiction and casual ingestion commonly acceptable, even if through a safer method, isnt something that will happen worldwide over night.
Ahh, i wish the world was more of a liberal place when it came to drugs.... i do have a special affinity for them
My best friend was just diagnosed Diabetic and she is having a hard time controlling her cravings for sweets. She sits at the library every night after work until it closes because if she is not home she won't slip up and eat something she shouldn't. She is considering 0 nic liquids as a way to stave off food cravings. I am 100% behind her if this is what she chooses to do. Everyone has a story and I don't like to judge others when I don't know their story. We ex smokers do not own vaping. I believe in every persons freedom to do as they please as long as they do not directly harm someone else. I also believe our government should stop prosecuting victimless crimes. I am entitled to my own opinion and everyone else is entitled to their own as well. Is it just me or are half of the people in this country out to save the world all by themselves? I don't want to be saved by someone else. I do not wish to harm any other person. I do not wish to control any other persons actions or behaviors. I just wish people would stop trying to save other people from themselves. If a non smoker wants to vape who am I to be nasty to them about it? I will explain the risks but if they still want to do it then the choice is theirs to make and theirs alone.
I would say why would they want to get addicted to nicotine if they arnt already. If they want to try the vaping experence Id say get the 0mg liquid, but that only if they really think they need to. Why put anything into your body that you dont have to. Nicotine addiction is not fun. It doesnt make me a better person, it makes me a grump if I dont have enought. Im teathered to a thing at all times. Why would they want this?
Were talking oranges and apples here, with an alcoholic they cant pick up that drink or they are back to drinking. Once and alcoholic always an alcoholic.
With a smoker they can start vaping to get away from the cigarette, this keeps them from wanting to pick up the cigarette. All the while getting farther and farther away from craving a cigarette, I will go as far as saying it does help with the mental addiction retraining the brain way from the cigarette, to where you can work down off the lvl of nicotine you are at with out going back to cigarettes. Very unlike drinking! We can vape all day long and not want to pick up a cigarette.
Some people just dont get it!
I would rather not pay higher taxes for those to stay on government assistance and have their designer purses,shoes and more expensive cell phones than what I can afford eather but that is how it goes right, we are our brothers keepers in this country now. Get used to it.
vaping, aka tobacco harm reduction is exactly that a reduction in harm. That's not to say vaping is 100% safe, or the nicotine is not addictive. So from where i sit, and my point of view a non smoker taking up vaping, even 0mg would be increasing his or her risk.
Though, any adult can choose to do as they wish, that is the beauty of freedom of choice. However i cannot understand why they would choose to. I choose to reduce my harm by vaping. Thats what vaping is all about, harm reduction.
Though, any adult can choose to do as they wish, that is the beauty of freedom of choice. However i cannot understand why they would choose to. I choose to reduce my harm by vaping. Thats what vaping is all about, harm reduction.
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