Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
- Thread starter Oliver
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So, how about a class action lawsuit for injunction of FDA deeming regulations and damages related to FDA causing harm to vapers by preventing access to a product that is used to maintain the health and well being of former smokers.
I see that the feds and FDA by extension, have what is called Sovereign Immunity, but however, the US federal government (agencies) can be sued under tort law as outlined in this wiki paragraph
"In the United States, the federal government has sovereign immunity and may not be sued unless it has waived its immunity or consented to suit. The United States has waived sovereign immunity to a limited extent, mainly through the Federal Tort Claims Act, which waives the immunity if a tortious act of a federal employee causes damage, and theTucker Act, which waives the immunity over claims arising out of contracts to which the federal government is a party.[31] The United States as a sovereign is immune from suit unless it unequivocally consents to being sued.[32] The United States Supreme Court in Price v. United States observed: "It is an axiom of our jurisprudence. The government is not liable to suit unless it consents thereto, and its liability in suit cannot be extended beyond the plain language of the statute authorizing it."[33]"
Maybe some cases exist that provide a precedent for a new lawsuit. Start a gofundme, hire some really good lawyers...tap, tap, tap, "Is there a Lawyer in the House?"
I see that the feds and FDA by extension, have what is called Sovereign Immunity, but however, the US federal government (agencies) can be sued under tort law as outlined in this wiki paragraph
"In the United States, the federal government has sovereign immunity and may not be sued unless it has waived its immunity or consented to suit. The United States has waived sovereign immunity to a limited extent, mainly through the Federal Tort Claims Act, which waives the immunity if a tortious act of a federal employee causes damage, and theTucker Act, which waives the immunity over claims arising out of contracts to which the federal government is a party.[31] The United States as a sovereign is immune from suit unless it unequivocally consents to being sued.[32] The United States Supreme Court in Price v. United States observed: "It is an axiom of our jurisprudence. The government is not liable to suit unless it consents thereto, and its liability in suit cannot be extended beyond the plain language of the statute authorizing it."[33]"
Maybe some cases exist that provide a precedent for a new lawsuit. Start a gofundme, hire some really good lawyers...tap, tap, tap, "Is there a Lawyer in the House?"
Why 100% VG instead of 50/50. I wil be ramping up my ordering and want to get the right stuff for my new adventure into lawlessness.
Just throw your vaping gear out now if you plan to vote Democrat. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid were partying like it was 1999 when the initial laws passed.
The GOP is trying to save vaping. Democrats are trying to ban it.
The 'deeming' regulations are such a complete and obvious disregard of any real facts that we DO have about vaping and its effects, of the equipment, and of the ingredients, I would really be shocked if they were not challenged on many levels, in many ways. I would be completely shocked and stunned if these were permitted to stand as is.
There is simply no other way to describe them----They are a complete sham.
A complete, obvious money grab as well. I can say that I have never seen an outcome where the 'fix' was so obviously 'IN', and completely IN YOUR FACE, no? Seems we are dealing with some very arrogant, tyrannical public health demagogues in the US drug cartel.
I'm fairly certain that this is NOT over.
There is simply no other way to describe them----They are a complete sham.
A complete, obvious money grab as well. I can say that I have never seen an outcome where the 'fix' was so obviously 'IN', and completely IN YOUR FACE, no? Seems we are dealing with some very arrogant, tyrannical public health demagogues in the US drug cartel.
I'm fairly certain that this is NOT over.
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It is interesting to note that, from what I can tell, the original FY 2017 appropriations bill that this was attached to (Agriculture, Rural Development, FDA, and related agencies) has a reference to the cigar portion of the deeming.
In essence, it states that funds from the appropriation to the FDA cannot be used to enforce deeming on "large and premium cigars":
"SEC. 749. None of the funds made available in this Act may be used to finalize, implement, administer, or enforce the proposed rule with the regulation identifier number 0910–AG38 published by the Food and Drug Administration in the Federal Register on April 25, 2014 (79 Fed. Reg. 23142) if such rule would apply to traditional large and premium cigars."
It then defines what a traditional large and premium cigar is (which I didn't paste).
In some ways, this may be a glimmer of hope. The Cole amendment, while not a panacea, simply extends these funding restrictions to vapor products. As this works through the system, it would be highly questionable to strike the Cole amendment (and hence continuing the FDA's destruction of e-cigs) while allowing cigars to remain on a free ride.
Many of your questions, I can't answer. However, it is not too late for you to start but the the DIY and learning to build would, in my opinion, would be worthwhile. I smoked for fifty years and in about six months quit cigarettes completely - around two years ago.
As to litigation, I doubt there will be much. Litigating against the federal government is very expensive. Government lawyers are like an invasion of grasshoppers, all funded by the tax payer; funding for the aggrieved plaintiff will have to come privately. I have my doubts, litigation of this type (administrative remedies then in the federal courts) is not about justice; it is a war of economic attrition.
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DO it. Jump in with both feet.
Read up on things like DIY and rebuildables. Learn how to stock yourself up so you are sustainable after the 2 year period passes.. There are many on ECF that can help you. Me included.
We are talking about your health. Never skimp on that.
I believe you are going to be pleasantly surprised by what legal action is taken up over this matter.
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No sense procrastinating. My old Kayfun is about 3 years old. I got two EHPro Kayfun 3.1's for $15.99 each at Hoosier today. That's something I've been putting off until I found a sale. Same for the iStick TC 40W I just happened to find there also. Deeming regulation just put me over the top on the procrastination. I just needed an excuse to jump on it!
Don't think I have been More Serious on the ECF.
If there is going to be No Congressional Review, and seeing that the Possibility of the President's Office interceding are about Zero, the Focus should be on the Grandfather Date and the Organization of a Legal Actions/Defense Fund(s).
If there is going to be some Congressional Review, then we needed to release a Kraken on Congress the likes of which have Never been Seen.
Good for you. Their crappy food is more harmful to a person's health than vaping is. Seriously, those chain "neighborhood restaurants" are only 1 step up from McDonald's. All they serve is frozen, processed garbage.
A couple years ago, some fool at a Starbucks scolded me that I couldn't vape in their outside seating area.. which was nearly empty. Starbucks hasn't seen a dime of my money since, and never will again. My own coffee's better anyway.
Outside? I'd have just given them a "Really?" look and continued on. I can respect the fact that a manager has to follow corporate rules. He was nice about it. But, outside I'd have to take issue. Most places allow cigarette smoking in the outside terrace.
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Agree completely. I was thinking that at least some degree of common sense would be recognized. I feel as if virtually any and all of the testimonial-type of comments and information was completely jammed, and then rubbed in our collective faces.
Lol I know, we need to calm down, my friend called me last night and was in panic mode. At least there's time to sort of take it in.
What I did was give him the finger with one hand, while the other poured the last couple ounces of cappuccino out on "his" table, then dropped the cup, smiling the whole time. I walked away whistling, never again to return to a Starbucks.
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Alcohol & Tobacco | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
ATF's Alcohol and Tobacco Enforcement Programs purpose is to target, identify, and dismantle criminal enterprises with ties to violent crime, that traffic illicit liquor or contraband tobacco in interstate commerce; seize and deny their access to assets and funds; and prevent their encroachment into the legitimate alcohol or tobacco industry.
I'm sure "ties to violent crime" is open to interpretation.
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If I mix some juice, and fill my neighbors tank when he's visiting, I get to be deemed a criminal, and you'll have to take it up with the FDA if you want that changed. And good luck with that!
Either way they will win. They will be the only ones who can afford to push through their closed system e-cigs. So what will be left is either their analog variety or the digital ones. In one fell swoop they just eliminated their competition on both sides. If I wasn't so ...... about this, I'd buy MO stock.
If I recall correctly, the FDA already tried to pull that one on, and were told to sod off in no uncertain terms (banning shipments of nicotine)
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