#500 SS Mesh

[BJ43]

Hi guys,

I have been playing around with the 500 mesh and got about 9cm rolled tight (no light shining through when looking down the center and held against a lightbulb). However, wicking is really crappy, I can only get about 6 seconds of vapor (device is vertical) before the kanthal dries up and the coil starts to glow. I am using 3/4 wraps of 32awg...

I have gotten 325 to wick a lot better than this, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong here...

Did you boil the mesh, it could have some oil in it from the manufacturing process. Give it a few ml to break in. Are your coil tight on the mesh. They should be, any space between the coils and the mesh can cause a dry spot. I hate 3/4 wraps and can't really comment much on them. My minimum is 6 wraps, just can't justify putting so much heat in such a small area. I repeat that is my preference and many others like small super hot coils. I just like 10 watts over a larger area. Not knowing the ohms and the volts maybe 6 sec is the max you can get. Most of my tests are at 10 watts.

 

[Pega]

Thanks for the info, mesh was boiled.

I only have the 32AWG here at the moment so I'm pretty much stuck with 3/4. I have smaller gauge sizes on order...

It's not the coils (I have always used a tight fit), the mesh itself does not seem to be absorbing the (100% VG) juice as fast...

edit: wick is a few days old now.

double wick works well (also seems to get wet much quicker just standing in the horizontal device). I think I will just try rolling a new wick and maybe boiling the mesh a little longer...

Did you boil the mesh, it could have some oil in it from the manufacturing process. Give it a few ml to break in. Are your coil tight on the mesh. They should be, any space between the coils and the mesh can cause a dry spot. I hate 3/4 wraps and can't really comment much on them. My minimum is 6 wraps, just can't justify putting so much heat in such a small area. I repeat that is my preference and many others like small super hot coils. I just like 10 watts over a larger area. Not knowing the ohms and the volts maybe 6 sec is the max you can get. Most of my tests are at 10 watts.

 

[vapspaz]

I just heated it a few times without quenching. (Tempered)

Gotcha, Thanks. Do you temper your mesh before you roll or just go with it and then oxidize just the coil end after rolling it?

 

[BJ43]

Gotcha, Thanks. Do you temper your mesh before you roll or just go with it and then oxidize just the coil end after rolling it?

I don't temper it usually, just that time for the lab test.

 

[BJ43]

Thanks for the info, mesh was boiled.

I only have the 32AWG here at the moment so I'm pretty much stuck with 3/4. I have smaller gauge sizes on order...

It's not the coils (I have always used a tight fit), the mesh itself does not seem to be absorbing the (100% VG) juice as fast...

edit: wick is a few days old now.

double wick works well (also seems to get wet much quicker just standing in the horizontal device). I think I will just try rolling a new wick and maybe boiling the mesh a little longer...

What are you using that you can only get 3/4 wrap of 32. I get 7/8 in a vivi nova and up to 10 on a regular vertical genesis. When you concentrate the heat in a small area the wick has to concentrate all the juice to that area. It is easier if it is spread out. I also use only Vg and do very long double draws,

 

[evilfrog]

Wow! I just found this thread and have reading until by eyes are bleeding. I'm up to page 32 I think now. lol

BJ - Quick question on terminology being used in here. I was reading about your test results you did last month with the wicking test of the oxidize BEFORE rolling and AFTER rolling. Are you talking about oxidizing (heating red hot then quenching) the mesh or tempering (heating red hot no quenching) before rolling.

The reason I ask is because someplace I had read some folks temper their mesh before rolling to take the "memory" out of the mesh so that it stays rolled. Do you do this with your wicks?

Great thread! Big thanks BJ and all for sharing your knowledge.

Just as a note - I believe what you refer to as 'tempering' is oxidizing. The quenching process is to stiffen the wick, and is unnecessary to achieve proper oxidation.

 

[Semi Reduction]

Hi guys,

I have been playing around with the 500 mesh and got about 9cm rolled tight (no light shining through when looking down the center and held against a lightbulb). However, wicking is really crappy, I can only get about 6 seconds of vapor (device is vertical) before the kanthal dries up and the coil starts to glow. I am using 3/4 wraps of 32awg...

I have gotten 325 to wick a lot better than this, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong here...

This could also be due to the device. BJ cleared up a query I had a few pages back about the thickness of the metal used on the top cap (roof) of the tank. The thicker the steel that the wick hole is drilled through, the more adhesion between the wick and the sides of the hole, which hinders capillary action. For instance, my Line, which has a very thin roof, can wick a whole tank vertically. My Orion on the other hand will only wick for about 6-7 seconds vertically. I've even tested the Orion with the exact same wick as used previously in the line. I'll be countersinking thick roofs in the future.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

Pega what juice are you using? I know you said 100% VG, but 100% VG isn't usually 100% VG

Higher VG makes life harder, obviously.

Also what BJ said it key, on a good day, the hard part of a geny set up isn't all the oxidizing fuss and shorts, its getting the coil as tight as possible without tearing your wick in half That's what the 15 second burn tests are for, spare your throat!

 

[Jimi D.]

Pega what juice are you using? I know you said 100% VG, but 100% VG isn't usually 100% VG

Higher VG makes life harder, obviously.

Also what BJ said it key, on a good day, the hard part of a geny set up isn't all the oxidizing fuss and shorts, its getting the coil as tight as possible without tearing your wick in half That's what the 15 second burn tests are for, spare your throat!

I'd like to see a video of someone taking a 15 second hit. Better not be more than a couple mg's of nic. LOL

 

[barqs]

I like to see the on the bias experiment as they say its the best way for a U wick would like to see you confirm or refute this claim as you end up wasting a lot of mesh cutting on the bias and was curious to see if there is any proff to these claims in a U wick??

No scientific proof, actually you are adding minerals and a third component that could separate the layers from each other. So for you it may seem tighter and it may not be better for wicking. Just got a few more sheets of 500 and am going to do a few more kerosine lamp test with preoxidation and not oxidized. Also want to compare rolling 500 on the bias instead of on the square.

 

[Jimi D.]

Damn that works great! I unwrapped my 1.7 ohm coil, tightened it, and managed to get 1.4 ohm. Massive vapor now. Wicking for 10 seconds on my DID atty, 500 mesh, with the filler bolt attached. A 10 second hit makes me gag! LOL

 

[studiovap]

This could also be due to the device. BJ cleared up a query I had a few pages back about the thickness of the metal used on the top cap (roof) of the tank. The thicker the steel that the wick hole is drilled through, the more adhesion between the wick and the sides of the hole, which hinders capillary action. For instance, my Line, which has a very thin roof, can wick a whole tank vertically. My Orion on the other hand will only wick for about 6-7 seconds vertically. I've even tested the Orion with the exact same wick as used previously in the line. I'll be countersinking thick roofs in the future.

Just bored out my DUD wick hole to 3.2mm with a mild countersink by using a cone diamond borer. Running 9wrap 28awg Nichrom coil around 1.4Ohms 110mm #500 mesh no wicking issues yet but still running in at low Watts.
"Bj ed" my Smok VIVI a la cut down plastic tube and half Apollo tank metal top cap (great idea Bj) Running 4/5 32awg kanthal on 2.8mm #500, no issues wicking at all at 11watts on the ZMAX.
Smok VIVI has really thin top cap and this obviously shows in my setup.
Not sure if I can bring myself to countersink my DID std wick hole

 

[Atlantisboy]

Just bored out my DUD wick hole to 3.2mm with a mild countersink by using a cone diamond borer. Running 9wrap 28awg Nichrom coil around 1.4Ohms 110mm #500 mesh no wicking issues yet but still running in at low Watts.
"Bj ed" my Smok VIVI a la cut down plastic tube and half Apollo tank metal top cap (great idea Bj) Running 4/5 32awg kanthal on 2.8mm #500, no issues wicking at all at 11watts on the ZMAX.
Smok VIVI has really thin top cap and this obviously shows in my setup.
Not sure if I can bring myself to countersink my DID std wick hole

Aren't you gonna have juice touching the bare brass now, I have DUD's but was under the impression they were brass underneath?

 

[Pega]

Pega what juice are you using? I know you said 100% VG, but 100% VG isn't usually 100% VG

Higher VG makes life harder, obviously.

Also what BJ said it key, on a good day, the hard part of a geny set up isn't all the oxidizing fuss and shorts, its getting the coil as tight as possible without tearing your wick in half That's what the 15 second burn tests are for, spare your throat!

Boba's Bounty...My coils are usually a very snug fit...

This could also be due to the device. BJ cleared up a query I had a few pages back about the thickness of the metal used on the top cap (roof) of the tank. The thicker the steel that the wick hole is drilled through, the more adhesion between the wick and the sides of the hole, which hinders capillary action. For instance, my Line, which has a very thin roof, can wick a whole tank vertically. My Orion on the other hand will only wick for about 6-7 seconds vertically. I've even tested the Orion with the exact same wick as used previously in the line. I'll be countersinking thick roofs in the future.

The device I am using for testing (NGP) is only 5mms thick on the top. that's a lot thinner than my other devices. A problem could be that the bottom of the coil is quite far from the top of the tank it's a new atomizer, my zen and old/trusty NGP are both not available to me right now, so I have no way of confirming the issue.

What are you using that you can only get 3/4 wrap of 32. I get 7/8 in a vivi nova and up to 10 on a regular vertical genesis. When you concentrate the heat in a small area the wick has to concentrate all the juice to that area. It is easier if it is spread out. I also use only Vg and do very long double draws,

Well the mod is not VV or VW. more than 5/4 wraps of 32 is too little vapor for my taste...

Thanks for all the feedback guys, but it's become clear to me that the issue is either with my new device or the kanthal used. I will have my old NGP back next week and some thicker kanthal. I will report back then, hopefully these issues will just resolve themselves. There is no reason why everyone is getting great results while my mesh just won't wick .

 

[vapspaz]

I was just pondering all the different wick sizes for all the various wick hole sizes on the different devices that have been talked about in here. I was just trying to come up with a simple way for folks to figure out what size mesh to use based on their wick hole size because I see this asked all the time (myself included) and thought maybe I could offer something back to the community for a change rather than just asking questions all the time. lol

Mathematically some of them don't seem possible based on the wire diameters of the popular #400 and #500 mesh.

For example: Someone previously posted that for a 3mm hole you can use a 60mm wick. This makes perfect sense mathematically if you can roll it so tight that there is no center hole.
The math is simply (3/.025=120)/2=60

I think I saw where BJ said he can get a 55mm (max) wick into a 2mm hole. Again using my generic math that would be (2/.025=80)/2=40
The only way this can happen is BJ and others must be compressing it so tight that the wires are actually pressing and squeezing in between each other some how. I don't know if that's even possible but that's all I can come with.

What are your thoughts about this? Is my simple little brain missing something here?


Specifications are as follows:

Mesh Count: #400 mesh - 400 wires or holes per linear inch.
Wire Diameter: 0.025mm
Aperture: 0.039mm - this is the hole size and it is square
Open Area %: 36.8%

and

Mesh Count: #500 mesh - 500 wires or holes per linear inch.
Wire Diameter: 0.025mm
Aperture: 0.026mm - this is the hole size and it is square
Open Area %: 26%

 

[BJ43]

PV Web Apps

@ vapspaz Don't understand your math. Tomcatt has an app to calculate the roll length. You are ignoring the circumference and Pi in your calc.

The best I can understand from your formula, it would be for stacking one wire on top of another and in a roll they are not "all" stacked.

 

[vapspaz]

Thanks for the link BJ! I didn't know this was out there. I should have known. lol And thanks Tom for the work you put into that. Cool!

My math as I said was just simple. I was looking at the givens and in this case we know the wire Dia = .025 and then a hole size of say 3mm. I then thought you could take the hole size and divide it by the wire Dia. and then divide that in half to take into account the radius and not the total diameter. If that makes any sense. It comes out pretty close to what I've seen posted and thought I was onto something. Must be not.

Question: When I use the defaults in that calculator and put in 3mm dia for the OD of the wick it say to use 141mm length of mesh. From what I've read in here so far that doesn't seem right. Do most of you fudge the 0.05 defaults a little to make this work?

 

[BJ43]

Thanks for the link BJ! I didn't know this was out there. I should have known. lol And thanks Tom for the work you put into that. Cool!

My math as I said was just simple. I was looking at the givens and in this case we know the wire Dia = .025 and then a hole size of say 3mm. I then thought you could take the hole size and divide it by the wire Dia. and then divide that in half to take into account the radius and not the total diameter. If that makes any sense. It comes out pretty close to what I've seen posted and thought I was onto something. Must be not.

Question: When I use the defaults in that calculator and put in 3mm dia for the OD of the wick it say to use 141mm length of mesh. From what I've read in here so far that doesn't seem right.

I get 283mm on 3mm wick hole with .025mm wire and a .05mm center hole. This is of course this is the max and would be impossible with your fingers, but I easily get 120mm of 500 in a 3mm hole.

 

[gdeal]

I get 283mm on 3mm wick hole with .025mm wire and a .05mm center hole. This is of course this is the max and would be impossible with your fingers, but I easily get 120mm of 500 in a 3mm hole.

If the wires overlap, wouldn't mesh thickness be .05mm?

 

[BJ43]

If the wires overlap, wouldn't mesh thickness be .05mm?

Don't understand your question, as you roll each roll overlaps the next, but the thickness of the mesh is .025mm on (400, 500) and that's the starting point for calculations.