#500 SS Mesh

[PoppaVic60]

emonty: So everyone sez.. I dunno, as I never used them. the v8 lit up purty, and no juice got to the 510.

Meanwhile, I'm not all that enthused with these oddball/idiot sizes. Getting battery contacts blows and I am not into tube mods. Mind you, the coppers I have been seeing here and at breaktru are truly gorgeous pieces.

I think Poppa is mostly going to focus on sizes that fit off-the-shelf contacts. AA/AAA sizes, whatever. It's not like I have a vise and all the hw from years-gone-by at the farm. And, so far my experiences with commercial tubes/tube-mods has been between awful and bad.

Quig: np. I'll just bag 'em up and toss them in a dark corner for now. THey won't even fit my backup-piece: an eGo 18650-mod, so there ain't no point to fooling with them at this point.

 

[Snowball88]

Have a DID and some 500# coming my way, hopefully both here by friday latest.

A while into the thread the discussion arises about the fact that the thicker wick needs higher wattage.
Or a good wattage with the right amount of coils / area of the wick covered.

Got a 18650 mod and not yet kicked so I can only do with the AW IMR's batteries I have. Might this be troublesome for using 500# mesh?
In my mind, as long as I use the 30awg kanthal I have, I could perhaps still make enough turns on a coil, with the ohms to be somewhere around 1.2-1.7. And it could work quite well.

If not, cutting the mesh below 60mm, and even down somewhere at 40-50mm width, would lessen the mass of the wick & juice so my single batteries are enough.

??

 

[jslick_007]

I don't think you need to be that concerned with your spacing gdeal...you just want to heat as much of your exposed wick as you can as opposed to concentrating all your heat to a small area...you can just as easily do a LR wrap with 32 (or even 34) but I'd think it's just going to take longer to get the wick up to vaping temp by virtue of your coils low surface area in relation to the much larger surface area of usable wick ...

I'm not sure I agree with your post about spacing. In my experience with my Orion, I actually get more vapor and flavor lining my spacing up as close as possible and as lined up as possible with the air intake. This is why I believe that some of the "Open Draw" Genesis mods like the Zen can create high amounts of vapor as the coil is "stoked" as I believe Zen referred to it at one time. Also why DID folks "wrap their coils low", and why us Orion guys did "The_Great's" mod of raising the positive post to better align our coil with the airhole, forcing the spacing to be tighter. Don't know if anyone's looked at a "Cisco-spec" atty or an HH357, but the coils on those are also pretty tightly spaced. Lastly, if I understand correctly, the point of the tight rolling of #500 is to induce capillary action which feeds more juice to the coil without flooding, but without enough heat (i.e. more power, less coils, or thicker wire), it couldn't possibly all be vaporized, so what does that do to flavor with such high heat (i.e. does it "burn" the juice and it's flavor)?

 

[BJ43]

With true capillary action in a tight wick you should never flood a coil. The juice just stays in the wick, but the real purpose of all my rolling and testing was not for little coils that just about any wick can keep up with. I like monster vaper, like when I smoked an Opus X, and for that you need a large heating area, very seldom wrap less than 2 1/2 inches of any g, for at least 7/8 wraps, don't really care about the ohms, I find the sweet spot on flavor and TH with voltage. Every mod, every wick, every coil no matter how much I try to do it the same, each vapes different, but I can always find a sweet spot I like on each.

 

[the ob]

I feel like it would be helpful if someone would create a chart of document listing all the devices we use, the coil number and mesh sizes for reference.

obviously, it is a "to each his own" thing, but a place to start would be great.

 

[BJ43]

I feel like it would be helpful if someone would create a chart of document listing all the devices we use, the coil number and mesh sizes for reference.

obviously, it is a "to each his own" thing, but a place to start would be great.

Easy, start a thread.

 

[the ob]

Easy, start a thread.

Didn't want to hijack yours

 

[BJ43]

Didn't want to hijack yours

No problem its just that after going thru thousands of dollars I am way past pretty gadgets, Now if it has a tank under that holds juice and a vertical SS wick and a way to get VV to it, I am good. This whole thread on my part is really only about that type of setup. All other setups have many other factors in their juice transfer.

 

[gdeal]

I'm not sure I agree with your post about spacing. In my experience with my Orion, I actually get more vapor and flavor lining my spacing up as close as possible and as lined up as possible with the air intake. This is why I believe that some of the "Open Draw" Genesis mods like the Zen can create high amounts of vapor as the coil is "stoked" as I believe Zen referred to it at one time. Also why DID folks "wrap their coils low", and why us Orion guys did "The_Great's" mod of raising the positive post to better align our coil with the airhole, forcing the spacing to be tighter. Don't know if anyone's looked at a "Cisco-spec" atty or an HH357, but the coils on those are also pretty tightly spaced. Lastly, if I understand correctly, the point of the tight rolling of #500 is to induce capillary action which feeds more juice to the coil without flooding, but without enough heat (i.e. more power, less coils, or thicker wire), it couldn't possibly all be vaporized, so what does that do to flavor with such high heat (i.e. does it "burn" the juice and it's flavor)?

This is sort of where I was going...

On the one hand, using relatively higher wattage with heat concentrated by tightly spaced coils may burn juice regardless of wick thickness, air flow, etc. On the other hand, spacing out coils and not concentrating wattage you may be under utilizing the capacity of a wick. Especially the thick wick like the one BJ has shown many times (no pun intended, yikes!). This, combined with the air intake location and air/vapor mix, seems to have an overall effect on quality of vapor production.

I assume Emonty is getting his tasty power hits (and perhaps others) from a balance of high wattage with optimal coil spacing and air flow/placement and the juice flow/cooling effect with a massive wick to supply ejuice fuel.

That was the intent of my original question, I should have been more specific.

So while this is way beyond my understanding of physics, etc. my thought is that while the heat output from the coil is radiant, it is not symmetrical due to the cooling effect of juice flow vs air flow over the coils.

I just do not have a solid understanding yet of the dynamics at play here, but intuitively it seems that there is a balance between these factors and since no empirical formula has been proposed, we rely on trial and error.

All good..we are looking for the same end point.

Quigsworth, I understand your point about coverage and it is well taken, but with large diameter #500 SS mesh solid wick juice flow/reservoir capability, I want to tap into all that goodness. Edit: No disrespect here, I really appreciate the info you provide; I have watched most of your videos and follow your ECF posts religiously.

 

[rusalka]

Got a sheet ordered as of yesterday. Will be throwing it in my did and three clones. Not to mention the 300 and Spartan when they get done...

Combine the 500 mesh and the 28 ga. kanthal a-1 sounds like a winner to me. Now if I can only get my hands on a nivel chip...

BTW, what a read. Read every post.

 

[rondasherrill]

Okay I have a question...

So far reading this thread, everything says that 400 mesh and 500 mesh, both have the exact same wire diameter... HOWEVER, looking at the mcmaster-carr page, I see that 400 has a wire diameter of 0.001", but the 500 has a wire diameter of 0.0008". Perhaps that is why it's more expensive from Mcmaster?

That's a pretty significant difference isn't it? Now if I understand correctly, that smaller wire diameter should be even better...

In any case I'm about to order a sheet, considering the 1 day UPS shipping time that I enjoy from them... I will let you all know my experience.

 

[Schneck]

If you want juice to flow going down by gravity, a loose wick with with a big hole flows the best but that is not true wicking. That is gravitational flow.
Wicking (capillary action) defined as a fluid rising against gravity is best with a tight dense 400 ss wick with a very small center hole.
I am now using # 500 ss on all my lines and it is twice as efficient at wicking as #400.
In a simple lab test I put 3 inch same dia wicks in 2 inches of VG and 3 more in 2 inches of PG and 3 in 2 inches of kerosine. This new test I used 325, 400, 500 SS mesh. The kerosine only rose 1/16 in on the 325 and not measurable with PG or VG. I put a little dab of cotton on the top tip of each wick to see when it got wet. With kerosine the cotton got wet almost immediately on both 400 and 500, pg took 2 min to wet the cotton on 400 and and less than a minute on the 500, the VG took about 30 seconds longer on each. Using small jars with a hole in the metal cap for the wick I made mini kerosine burners. Even with prewetting the 325 it would not maintain a flame. The flame on the 500 was twice the size of the flame on the 400 and consumed the kerosine in half the time. All were 45mm rolled by 3 inches long, rolled tight on a thin paperclip. All rolled mesh to 2.5 mm dia,
In an earlier lab experiment I did a three #400 wicks 35mm, 45mm, 55mm, rolled to 2.5 mm dia and on the kerosine lamp test each progressively maintained a larger flame.
From my simple tests I concluded.
More density in the wicks provided more wicking and therefore more juice to the coil
comparing oranges to oranges
PG will rise higher in a 400 mesh than on a 325 mesh.
Vg will rise higher in a 400 mesh than on a 325 mesh.
On the same 400 wick PG will rise higher than VG because of cohesion forces, but it will not rise higher on 325 than on 400,
And now all rise higher and faster on 500 mesh

Great post...thanks for all the work involved in these test and sharing the info for all to see helps tremendously......

 

[emonty]

28 AWG 3/4 wraps with #500 mesh 40 mm wick, 0.7 ohm, running at 3 Volts with VV 2 x 18350 AW. 30% VG Honey Flue Cured

 

[BJ43]

Okay I have a question...

So far reading this thread, everything says that 400 mesh and 500 mesh, both have the exact same wire diameter... HOWEVER, looking at the mcmaster-carr page, I see that 400 has a wire diameter of 0.001", but the 500 has a wire diameter of 0.0008". Perhaps that is why it's more expensive from Mcmaster?

That's a pretty significant difference isn't it? Now if I understand correctly, that smaller wire diameter should be even better...

In any case I'm about to order a sheet, considering the 1 day UPS shipping time that I enjoy from them... I will let you all know my experience.

Which mesh did you order, the hole size of the mesh is as or more important than the wire size. Smaller is better on both.

 

[BJ43]

Damn, you guys ordered so much #500 from The Mesh Company that they raised the price. Not nice of them.

 

[Cyrus Vap]

damn that sucks! lucky for us good wicks last forever

 

[Snowball88]

I'll take that quite undirect answer and the fact that monty vapes at only 3v that I should have no probs heating enough with non-VV as long my coils are not 5 inches .

I'd like the massive vapour and high pace that only thick wick keeps up with.
In my mind would be wisest to ask first, if that required volts higher than I have access to.

 

[MikeE3]

28 AWG 3/4 wraps with #500 mesh 40 mm wick, 0.7 ohm, running at 3 Volts with VV 2 x 18350 AW. 30% VG Honey Flue Cured

Yikes! a .7Ω coil. I've been reading and reading this thread and the use of 28g has been intriguing me. But i don't have a PV that will put up with the amp draw. So if, I'm understanding anything of what I'm reading - the surface area of the coil can be as significant as the size (diameter) and material (500 vs: 400) of the wick.

So if'n I done did some calculations correctly I should get similar results as emonty's .7Ω wick with a 30g coil about 2+ inches (given you have the real estate to wrap 2 inches of coil).

A 30g, 2.1 inch coil would be ~1.5Ω. Vaped at 4.4 volts, drawing 2.9amps, and producing the same 12.8 watts with the same surface area.

Now I just needs me some 500 mesh and 30g kanthal and I can start playing the game.

Thanks so much to BJ and everyone contributing to this thread.

 

[BJ43]

@Mike: thanks for the chart and that is why I use 2.25 to 2.5 in with 32g. I have a lot of LM2596 VV mods and try to stay bellow 2.5 amps.

 

[emonty]

Yikes! a .7Ω coil. I've been reading and reading this thread and the use of 28g has been intriguing me. But i don't have a PV that will put up with the amp draw. So if, I'm understanding anything of what I'm reading - the surface area of the coil can be as significant as the size (diameter) and material (500 vs: 400) of the wick.

So if'n I done did some calculations correctly I should get similar results as emonty's .7Ω wick with a 30g coil about 2+ inches (given you have the real estate to wrap 2 inches of coil).

A 30g, 2.1 inch coil would be ~1.5Ω. Vaped at 4.4 volts, drawing 2.9amps, and producing the same 12.8 watts with the same surface area.

Now I just needs me some 500 mesh and 30g kanthal and I can start playing the game.

Thanks so much to BJ and everyone contributing to this thread.

right!! I made it on this unit with 28 AWG as I could not get more wraps with 30, area is too small as the wick is only 40 mm wide and the length is quite small.
It does hit really good and the high amps don't bother me as the setup can handle it without issues.