Am I the only person who has a problem with ppl making juice in their homes?

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Amraann

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nytimes.
com/2014/03/24/business/selling-a-poison-by-the-barrel-liquid-nicotine-for-e-cigarettes.html?_r=0


That is just more of the same lies the NYT's keeps regurgitating. Actually lies is not the correct word. What I should say is it is misleading. It is implying that the calls to poison control represent actual poisonings rather than what could simply be a question.
Further more it neglects to point out that Alcohol comes in all kinds of fruity flavors and pretty bottles and those bottles do not have child proof caps.
It is just a misleading approach to cause panic in those that are uninformed or to ignorant to think for themselves.
The reality is that parents and care givers are the ones who are suppose to be responsible for keeping dangerous house hold items out of reach of children and pets. From medications to household cleaners.
 
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jensy

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I'm Not anti vaping or smoking. I just think people need to use their heads more and stop acting like vaping is so healthy and good for you. Common sense tells you it's not.

I don't think anyone ever said vaping is good for you or it is something you should add to your way of life to make you healthy. Vaping is harm reduction ! Vaping is safer than smoking cigarettes with 3000 chemicals added . When people stop smoking cigarettes and switch to vaping it does not take long to feel the benefits. We breathe better, no coughing, more energy , sleep better etc, etc.

Before you get going with everyone and common sense well, hmmmm you did not even bother to find out where nicotine is being sourced in the world being India and China. Nicotine is one of the biggest components in ejuice so to me that would be a given. Just because a product comes from a China or India does it mean it is a gross product. Do you read all your food labels ? I think you will be surprised when a lot of food products come from .
 

Mr.Mann

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I don't think anyone ever said vaping is good for you or it is something you should add to your way of life to make you healthy. Vaping is harm reduction ! Vaping is safer than smoking cigarettes with 3000 chemicals added . When people stop smoking cigarettes and switch to vaping it does not take long to feel the benefits. We breathe better, no coughing, more energy , sleep better etc, etc.

Before you get going with everyone and common sense well, hmmmm you did not even bother to find out where nicotine is being sourced in the world being India and China. Nicotine is one of the biggest components in ejuice so to me that would be a given. Just because a product comes from a China or India does it mean it is a gross product. Do you read all your food labels ? I think you will be surprised when a lot of food products come from .

Thank you.
 

WillyZee

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I'm Not anti vaping or smoking. I just think people need to use their heads more and stop acting like vaping is so healthy and good for you. Common sense tells you it's not.

you got any links where people are touting vaping as healthy or good for you? ... I've yet to see any myself.

A healthier alternative to smoking I've seen ... but nowhere have I seen anyone claim it was healthy or good for you.
 

bluecat

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E-cig vapor has been shown to contain tin, copper, nickel, and silver silicate beads.3 In some cases, the levels are greater than what you might be exposed to from smoking a conventional cigarette.

Breathing metal nanoparticles has additional risks because they can more easily enter your bloodstream and body tissues, as their microscopic size allows them to better evade your body's natural defenses. They also carry the potential for harming your developing fetus or newborn baby.4

According to Americans for Nonsmokers' Rights (ANR), secondhand e-cigarette aerosol contains at least 10 chemicals identified on California's Proposition 65 list of carcinogens and reproductive toxins, listed in the table below. Scientists have also found measurable amounts of propylene glycol, diethylene glycol, and carcinogenic tobacco-specific nitrosamines.5, 6

Acetaldehyde Benzene
Cadmium Formaldehyde
Isoprene Lead
Nickel Nicotine
N-Nitrosonornicotine Toluene

Unfortunately it looks like ANR is relying on the 2009 study. I believe it has been discussed here that study is bogus.

One has to realize California regulations are well below the minimal acceptable by other states.

One of 1000 reasons I will never live in CA.
 

FlamingoTutu

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I realize the imported nic meets the standards and I'm glad there are standards, I just prefer not to ingest anything from certain places. I certainly would not take any medication from those places.

Chances are very good that you have. 40% of US over the counter and generic prescription drugs are from India. Not all their companies have a stellar record while others are world class.
 

jensy

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Yes but there are consumer protections in place for food and alcohol products but right now anyone can bottle anything call it e liquid and sell it, that's the problem, it's not safe.

Those consumer protections that you are touting hmmm it seems we sure have a lot of recalls and it only happens after people get sick or die. What about the FDA and their protection on drugs, ahhh , yeah how is that working for us . Chantix suicidal tendencies , this I know of first hand . My girlfriends husband took Chantix when it first came to Canada years ago and shot himself on his front lawn when his family was home. First lawsuit won in Canada over Chantix and yet it is still being sold and approved by the FDA.

If you do not think ejuice is harm reduction and it is so very dangerous DON"T VAPE .
 

Amraann

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That's a fair point of view but I don't think anyone calls poison control for no reason.

People call posion control to ask questions very often. I should have also mentioned that the article does not say that the increase in nicotine calls are all about E-liquids. What about people who leave their cigs laying around where a toddler picks them up and chews on them? Or other nicotine containing items like patches or gum.
Personally, I think a child would find gum to be pretty enticing. Although I have not looked up the data I feel it is a safe assumption that more people are trying to quit smoking. So along with e-cigs the above other mentioned cesation tools are being used more frequently. Thus the increase in calls to posion control.
The New York TImes just blaming it all on e-liquids just shows their bias.
 

WillyZee

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Yes but there are consumer protections in place for food and alcohol products but right now anyone can bottle anything call it e liquid and sell it, that's the problem, it's not safe.

just like every restaurant that is regulated ... anyone working there can put anything into the food and sell it to the public.

by your logic ... eating out is not safe ... maybe you should stick with DIY.
 

stevegmu

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Those consumer protections that you are touting hmmm it seems we sure have a lot of recalls and it only happens after people get sick or die. What about the FDA and their protection on drugs, ahhh , yeah how is that working for us . Chantix suicidal tendencies , this I know of first hand . My girlfriends husband took Chantix when it first came to Canada years ago and shot himself on his front lawn when his family was home. First lawsuit won in Canada over Chantix and yet it is still being sold and approved by the FDA.

If you do not think ejuice is harm reduction and it is so very dangerous DON"T VAPE .

Imagine what would happen if there were no regulations for anything, if regulated products still have issues...

From what I have read of Chantix, people who are disturbed already have been known to have problems with it. If it didn't work for enough people, no body would buy it...
 

stevegmu

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You do pay to have the water tested.
And you pay for all costs a vendor incurs when you buy from a vendor or he won't be a vendor for long.

Every Capri-Sun or Budweiser we drink, every Twinkie we eat, every Blow-Pop we suck on has the cost of manufacturer's QC compliance checking, HAACP tracking and all associated development, labor,manufacturing, distribution and advertising costs built in to the price we consumers pay for it.

Yes, that's right. Some seem to feel the consumer should buy a product, send it off to a lab, have it analyzed, then determine if it is safe to use, rather than the burden be on the manufacturer...
 

jensy

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Imagine what would happen if there were no regulations for anything, if regulated products still have issues...

From what I have read of Chantix, people who are disturbed already have been known to have problems with it. If it didn't work for enough people, no body would buy it...

First off I disagree with you whole heartedly with you saying if people are disturbed Chantix will give them problems. The man I was talking about his name was Brett and he did not have any problems what so ever. Believe you me with the law suit they dug into his life with a fine toothed comb and found nothing of the sort. Notice I said WON the law suit.

Secondly with your assessment of if it didn't work nobody would buy it. Hmmmmm lets see , why is vaping so popular ? Why didn't everyone just use Chantix ? Ahhh that's right Chantix doesn't always work , Chantix does have really bad side effects and not just for the already disturbed as you say . Chantix is like playing russian roulette it may or may not work and you may be the person that it causes more harm than good .
 

InTheShade

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It sure will be nice to see that, I hope it happens. It would add a level of safety at least in my mind it would.

Food chain contamination is not limited to certain geographical locations. Each year, 48 million get sick and around 3,000 die IN THIS COUNTRY from foodborne illnesses. (source CDC)

Still, if it makes you feel better...

EDIT - Just in the interests of transparency, I wanted to add the above numbers are reported totals for the US. Some of the foodborne illnesses could have come from foreign manufactured or sourced ingedients including China.
 
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Wow1420

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And since they disallow WTA, that means that I have to get non-AEMSA juices to get the WTA -- which sucks, since I'm using the WTA to *prevent* going back to much more harmful chemicals, in cigarettes.

Andria

That is my issue with AEMSA as well, But there's only three companies (as far as I know) that produce WTA liquids, so if you want WTA, you have to go to one of them. Or get unflavored from one of them to mix with your own DIY or with a favorite from anywhere else.

I DIY the majority of my liquid now, so it's hard for me to get worked up on this discussion topic, but I do not want to see the industry regulated out of existence either.
 

Mr.Mann

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How many tests would suffice for one vendor? One? One per flavor? But, if one test per flavor would suffice to keep you satisfied and feeling safe, you would also then have to take the vendor's word that they did not change up their recipes, or you would have to take their word from the word of their supplier that absolutely nothing had been tweaked or mishandled in the making of the primary ingredients. My point? My point is that the only way for these tests to be conducted and to be valid would be to test per flavor/per batch. Now I ask you, go to any one site, consider how many batches and flavors are being made and then consider the logistics of that. What about your customizeable made-to-order liquids? Not going to work in that system. In an actual made-to-order system, each bottle would be a batch. Do the math on those numbers, the turnaround and cost of testing, and then admit that the system that is being proposed will eviscerate the options that makes vaping capable of being tailored to the individual.

If you don't want to have any chance of consuming absolutely avoidable risks, DIY won't be your answer unless you DIY unflavored PG/VG/nic; the second you introduce any flavor, you just added the possibility of unknown and unnecessary risks for vaping -- no matter how minimal. You may say, "it clearly states on the flavor supplier's site it is DA/AP free," but those are the same words that the vendors initially took and adopted. [As far as I know, no flavoring manufacturer has readily available testing done on every single flavor/batch, and even if they did, what is their testing method? What is their LOD and LOQ? Would you even know how to read those test results?] And Dr.F's study showed us (and the part that changed my position on how little I do care about it) is that this is not an issue solely with "butter," "cream," "custards," but possible with myriad flavors. So don't think that you know how, necessarily, to avoid those risks just off of some product description.

Right now the concern is DA/AP, but there are staggering numbers of untested compounds for inhalation in flavors, so the real battle should be waged on flavor -- and I am not going to fight against flavors! Are you? Testing is great, but there aren't too many vendors that would be able to keep up with that type of rigidity and not too many customers that will pay markedly higher prices on liquids that were never meant to be high-end. This conversation may be more sober if those that want full-scale testing on every finished-product could wake up to what they are really proposing. Everyone has the right to desire what they wish, but you ought not be blind to the ramifications of what you are proposing.

I have no qualms with wanting to see test results from those that claim to have them, wanting bold disclaimers taken down from sites when there is no proof, and even a little more transparency from vendors. But, I am not for industry-wide requirements unless I want an industry so small that I no longer desire to be a part of it. For those that want to vape but want to be 100% free of these avoidable risks, you currently have an option: vape unflavored . There, done! You get what you want. If you want to vape flavors, you are an avoidable-risk taker. Accept it. If the unknown costs are too high for you to accept, you know what your available option is.
 
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Tangaroav

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That is my issue with AEMSA as well, But there's only three companies (as far as I know) that produce WTA liquids, so if you want WTA, you have to go to one of them. Or get unflavored from one of them to mix with your own DIY or with a favorite from anywhere else.

I DIY the majority of my liquid now, so it's hard for me to get worked up on this discussion topic, but I do not want to see the industry regulated out of existence either.

IMO, it would be ok to sell WTA or any liquid, but the offensive ingredients should be clearly indicated on their labels with the proper warnings. This would protect the rest of us that are trying to stay away from avoidable contaminants. I dont think the FDA will agree with me .

I can understand why AEMSA has rules. They are still minimal rules. Self regulations can only work if it offers basic protections against incompetent and negligent vendors as in the case now.

As was reported on ecf, many B&M mix and sell their back store made e-liquids as it is an very high profit activity. The flea markets are full of home made e-liquids.

Vapers should support AEMSA, it is in their interest to do so. The alternative to AEMSA is much worse for all of us.

I DIY 90% of the e-liquids I vape. The other 10% will be AEMSA certified only.
 
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sub4me

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Sub4me, I hope that you know I am just enjoying the discussion with you. In no way am I trying to pick on you.
Some of you all need to back off and not make things personal. As adults we should all be capable of having a debate without attacking each other.

I didn't think that in any way. Some of us can have a decent discussion and that's a good thing. I don't mind others posting their thoughts but I don't care for the bullies, know it alls, and those that just want to insult others because they don't agree and act like vaping is the most important thing in the world. Some of it gets really silly.

If I choose to vape I want to do it in the safest way possible and I think most people do also. A big problem is there's so much misleading information about vaping and there's also alot no one knows about it, however it does appear there are a lot of experts on everything here, everyone's a scientist, a doctor, or has a doctorate in chemistry, lol,, if you know what I mean.
 
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