I suggest you check the obesity rates or the average life expectation or any other "health" indicator on both.
Are you for or against being able to vape indoors in public places?
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I suggest you check the obesity rates or the average life expectation or any other "health" indicator on both.
Are you sure?
I mean how would you know unless you've tried them "smothered"?
[emoji38]
Tapatyped
That still does not make it clear for me, why exactly do you not support the idea of restaurant owners being able to freely choose what kind of businesses they run. That freedom should be given to owners of "adult type" businesses only, if I understood well - like bars and pubs.
To support you claim, you mentioned "the children". Poor children that "must" endure cigarette smoke in a smoking restaurant.
Would non-smoking parents bring their kids to a smoking restaurant?
You did not answer. Personally, I have a feeling that no, they would not, so no harm done to their children. And if they did, and then started making a fuss, then we both agree that it would be disrespectful.
Would smoking parents mind that other people smoked around their kids in as smoking restaurant?
You did not answer. Personally, I do not believe they would (themselves probably smoke at home), so again, no harm done from their point of view. And if they *DO* mind - maybe they're hiding from their kids the fact that they smoke - then by all means, take them to a non-smoking venue and refrain from smoking there. In a smoking venue, people smoking are likely to be spotted. Avoid those places if you dot not want your children to see the act of smoking.
Given the above, I cannot see how giving the owners of *any* kind of business the freedom to choose how to conduct *their* own businesses will be interfering with non-smoker's "rights and liberties" - children or grown-up.
Don't like smoke while you eat? Choose a non-smoking restaurant.
Like smoking? Usually smoke at home with you kids around? Choose a smoking restaurant, so that you can smoke at peace, without disturbing others with your smoke and being disturbed by anti-smoking whining.
Like smoking, but do not want to expose the "children" to that? Choose a non-smoking restaurant. There will be no smokers for your child to see.
As I see it, everyone wins this way. How exactly is this worse than a draconian law that would put smokers/vapers, and some owners who would allow smoking/vaping, on the losing side?
you are assuming the public will have a negative view of vaping.
where do you come up with that? my experience is just the opposite.
when the public sees us as just normal human beings not out to
poison them or their chillin',they are pretty receptive and clearly
more curious.
this whole attitude of the public is against us is simply not true.
they do not care either way. they don't smoke nor vape. they
do not have any skin in the game.that is why i believe its my
responsibility to be a vaper ambassador. vape normally and vape
likes its normal. when the public see's first hand what all the
fuss is about they are more likely to be accepting than have
a negative view.the public is not dumb,they are just to busy
to be pocket experts in every political,economic and,health
issue they are bombarded with day in and day out.
the best way to sway the public to our side is good old
fashioned face to face time.when they witness first hand
just how unobtrusive vapor is any objections or concerns
they might have subside.they are not all hypochondriacs.
we should never assume the public is not on our side.
they are on no ones side. quit worrying about about
all those mysterious rude vapers who are apparently
hiding in every cereal isle,hospital waiting room,and
the restaurant near you. one polite vaper ambassador
out ways 100 rude vapers.
if we act like we are doing something wrong we will
be treated like we are doing something wrong. i a
not a wrong doer. are you?
regards
mike
your assuming that a vaper would not know nor understand what
that would mean.polite respectful vaping allowed.no cloud chasing
or competition vaping.simple enough to understand.
mike
Businesses are typically in the market to make money. Those that aren't are usually 501(c)3 organizations. Those that are in it for a profit shoudl be able to put a sign above the door "Smoking is Allowed". Then as a consumer you are able to make a choice whether or not you want to patronize the establishment. I absolutely hate having my decision made for me by the government. While I realize over 50% of the population doesn;t mind the government telling them how they should be, I am appalled by it.
Simple and easy. No regulation is needed.
Simple and easy. No regulation is needed.
ANTZ? Me? You don't even know me beyond one comment I made in a thread talking about respect. And you presume I'm an anti-nicotine tobacco zealot. I vape 18 mg in normal tanks. That makes me anti-nicotine!!
Dude, I work in a vape store. I resent your calling me an ANTZ. And not that it matters, but I was here about a year before you, and if you think I'm an ANTZ, read through my old posts.
Beyond that, I will not dignify the rest of your comments with any further response.
P.S. Ad hominem, much?
Dude, I work in a vape store. I resent your calling me an ANTZ. And not that it matters, but I was here about a year before you, and if you think I'm an ANTZ, read through my old posts.
Beyond that, I will not dignify the rest of your comments with any further response.
P.S. Ad hominem, much?
Agreed. I am in the same camp, business owners should be free to decide and customers are free to choose. No regulation
But I am not in the camp that you should be able to vape everywhere you damn well please, whether the business owner wants clouds in his business environment or not, because its not unhealthy and so you can do whatever you want. This is not a vape-enthusiast attitude... its just disrespectful and selfish.
This is not a health issue. Its not a smoking issue. Its totally separate. Lets assume that vapers are just exhaling proven-harmless technicolor rainbows. Should business owners have no choice but to allow proven-harmless technicolor rainbows anywhere in their private establishments? Of course not. Not everybody wants to go somewhere and be bombarded by proven-harmless technicolor rainbows.
When is the operative word. And you are assuming that they will have a positive view. I disagree that they don't have skin in the game. We are talking about public places here and their opinions matter too.you are assuming the public will have a negative view of vaping.
where do you come up with that? my experience is just the opposite.
when the public sees us as just normal human beings not out to
poison them or their chillin',they are pretty receptive and clearly
more curious.
this whole attitude of the public is against us is simply not true.
they do not care either way. they don't smoke nor vape. they
do not have any skin in the game.that is why i believe its my
responsibility to be a vaper ambassador. vape normally and vape
likes its normal. when the public see's first hand what all the
fuss is about they are more likely to be accepting than have
a negative view.the public is not dumb,they are just to busy
to be pocket experts in every political,economic and,health
issue they are bombarded with day in and day out.
the best way to sway the public to our side is good old
fashioned face to face time.when they witness first hand
just how unobtrusive vapor is any objections or concerns
they might have subside.they are not all hypochondriacs.
we should never assume the public is not on our side.
they are on no ones side. quit worrying about about
all those mysterious rude vapers who are apparently
hiding in every cereal isle,hospital waiting room,and
the restaurant near you. one polite vaper ambassador
out ways 100 rude vapers.
if we act like we are doing something wrong we will
be treated like we are doing something wrong. i a
not a wrong doer. are you?
regards
mike
I'm going to quote from another post I made on the matter.
"I'm in no way ashamed of my Vape. I do not try to hide my Vape in hopes that is sparks conversation in hopes of more education and acceptance with the overall general public. I do know however holding vaping to a higher standard above and beyond our filthy alternative will raise the bar with respect to the general public in hopes to receive the respect that is truly deserved."
You do realize that you are a making a "for the children" argument, right?
Respect is being legislated, so we have forgotten how to do it ourselves.
tell you what!
I owned my own business for a lot of years. (but retired before vaping even existed)
However as an employee or customer, you smoked ONLY where I said you could smoke on my premises.
Those that felt otherwise, and thought they could smoke anywhere the wanted were quickly escorted to the curb.
Trust me, no one ate, drank, or smoked in here!
I owned my own business for a lot of years. (but retired before vaping even existed)
However as an employee or customer, you smoked ONLY where I said you could smoke on my premises.
Those that felt otherwise, and thought they could smoke anywhere the wanted were quickly escorted to the curb.
Trust me, no one ate, drank, or smoked in here!
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now you are assuming what 'they' are thinking.
you nor i do not know what 'they' are thinking.
how about we let 'them' speak for themselves.
regards
mike
If you reread my post I did answer your questions. As far as allowing the business to decided to allow smoking/vaping to their own descretion... I have said before and I will say again...I agree. It's not up to the government. It's up the the owner. After all the government didn't build that...they did. Same can be said for the debate that's on going concerning same sex marriages and whether a business has to provide them service. It's their business let them decide and let the free market work. That, however, is not what is at debate here. The debate is concerning whether you should Vape in places where vaping/smoking isn't allowed. Imo they should not out of respect for the general public plain and simple. If its posted or understood there is no smoking then one should not smoke. I believe, until there are more distinctive lines between the two within the general public, vaping should also fall under this distinction just out of respect.
Aye in a sense.
I can reword it to say a business owner should be able to place a sign that reads "No Smoking Allowed" above his door. If one wishes to enter one should have that choice. I see signs that say "No shoes, no shirt, no service". I do not see how this should be any different.
Outside in the air... No one should be able to regulate. If one choose to be respectful of others, kudos to them. If they choose not to and blow a huge cloud in a person face, that is their choice and they may get a person that will move or the may get a person that cold cocks them. I would think either position would be right.
Exactly! You and i do not know. It's always proper to err on the side of caution and respect...not Vape and wait for someone to take issue with it as most people are non confrontational and wouldn't raise issue even though it offenders them. They will just leave and never return...perhaps.
error on the side of who's definition of caution and respect.
i myself would say caution or common courtesy.
if we do not get out there and show 'the public' the
true nature of vaping and who we are as people then
'the public' will naturally fall back on the media's version
of what vaping is.we must show them.the media won't.
the government won't. BT and BP won't. the ANTZ won't.
that just leaves us.
i think we are grossly over estimating 'the public's' possible
negative reactions and,grossly under estimating their possible
positive reactions.
regards
mike
I agree with you. My vapor doesn't even fog up the cab of our pickup truck. My main reason for not *usually* vaping in public places has nothing to do with "should or should not be allowed", and everything to do with not wanting to engage in a battle of wits with the unarmed, who may also have the strength of Corporate Policy behind them -- I just don't have time or patience for ignorance of any kind, particularly when I'm trying to shop for groceries or some other humdrum thing that I just want to finish and be about my business.
But all the smoking bans play a HUGE part in why I'm more or less a hermit -- if my smoking wasn't permitted in a place, then I did everything I could either to not go there at all, or spend as little time there as I could possibly get away with -- such as shopping. I haven't been out to an actual movie theater in many years; I think the last time was when the last Harry Potter came out, and my son wanted to see it at an Imax instead of the comfort of our living room -- and he and I had to get really creative to find a place outside the mall to smoke before we went in! Before that, it had probably been at least a decade since I'd been in a movie theater -- since they wouldn't even allow smoking in the lobby.
Seems that the smoking bans are now carrying over to vaping bans in many places, so I expect I won't need to change my hermit-like behavior. Suits me; nearly everything is cheaper at home -- if they don't allow my smoking/vaping, they won't get my money, either (particularly restaurants -- with the prices they charge!).
Andria
I haven't "heard" it in a long time myself, but the stereotype seems to be that if you have a southern accent, you must be a hillbilly/redneck and thus ignorant/stupid. Yet all these places without southern accents seem to be having a really hard time figuring out what is really simple -- under 18 present, no smoking --18 and up, smoke 'em if you got 'em.
It still doesn't explain the brainless "non-smoking campus" thing that hospitals have going on... In the first place, a hospital is not a campus, it's a hospital. People are in there who'd like visitors, some of whom may be smokers -- yet they're not supposed to even smoke IN THEIR OWN CARS??? Considering that many hospitals charge an arm and a leg to park, you're supposed to get in your car and drive OFF their precious "campus" (which isn't!) just to smoke? What totally intolerant, prejudicial imbeciles they are. I always smoked in my car, ON their precious "campus", and no one ever had the temerity to tell me I couldn't do that -- of course, I wasn't sitting on the hood having a pow wow with every smoker within shouting distance either, as I've seen many do.
Now of course, if I need to visit my mom in the hospital, I just go into her bathroom in her room, and vape away. What they never see, they'll never have a problem with.
Andria
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