Are you weening down? Why not?

[holy_handgrenade]

Part of the purpose of quitting smoking, is no longer being addicted to a drug. We all had such trouble quitting, because the nicotine was so highly addictive. Just think about how it felt, all those times you tried to quit cold turkey. So you must admit, that part of the reason you quit, and why you kept smoking, was the addiction. The addiction is tied directly to the negative health effects of smoking, because if you weren't addicted, you would have been able to quit much easier, and we wouldn't have nearly as many vapers as we have today. Also vaping may not have ever been needed, as quitting cold turkey would have been a lot easier.

That said, why do so many vapers (probably nearly all of you) continue to just vape at whatever nicotine levels you were smoking at? Its so easy to just ween down now. I started at 18mg, (iirc) and slowly, over time, got down to 0mg. This did take a few years. But I did it. There are plenty of places out there that will let you go in intervals of 2mg, up or down. The place in town where I buy most of my vape juice also does this. I went down to 16, 14, 12, 10, etc etc until I got to zero. If for whatever reason, I can not vape, no big deal. So why don't most people do this? Why would you want to remain addicted, so that if something happens where you just can't vape, you go into freakout mode? Its actually disgusting to watch. There are plenty of situations that could arise that could prevent you from being able to vape, possibly for days at a time. Nicotine has also been linked to stomach cancer so that's another reason.

I think you assume people want to stop nicotine. This is similar to asking why someone doesnt just stop drinking coffee in the morning

Most people that want to quit, either want to quit due to health concerns or through stigma of anti-smokers. That said, most smokers dont want to quit.

You're also making an assumption that it's nicotine that everyone is addicted to. Check out DVap's blog here and learn about Whole Tobacco Alkaloids: E-Cigarette Forum - DVap - Blogs

There are things in analogs, more than just nicotine, that are addictive and have effects on us. Some to such an extent that vaping wont help some smokers, WTA is the reason (and there are 2 companies that sell WTA ejuices)

Those of us that wanted to quit for health reasons; dont really want to give up our habits, nicotine is relatively safe and it's effects are enjoyable. So why stop the fun if you dont have to? =)

That said, I did ween down from 24mg down to 6mg. I dont think it's a proper weening though. I started at 24mg in the Kanger T3's that my ego starter kit came with. As I moved to gennies and more advanced RBA/RDA's I found I was taking in more than needed and found 6mg gave me the desired effects.

 

[Shilo]

Because I don't want to

 

[Ryedan]

I knew someone would say something similar, to which I reply you missed the whole point. I never asked why you aren't changing to suit me. I asked why you aren't changing so that you won't suffer. Its kind of a logical question that anyone would ask someone else, who could prevent their own suffering but just naively goes on without giving it a thought. Sooner or later, you're going to be in a situation where you don't get to vape for a good long time. But if you've weened down to zero nic, then you won't really care. If you're still in the higher levels you'll act like a druggie that needs a fix, which is technically what you are. What we all were, back when we smoked. But now there is this opportunity.

I also figured someone would say they do higher ones because otherwise they'd just vape more. People will rationalize anything for their addictions. All you have to do, is instead of vaping 30mg, switch to 28 one day and vape that for a month. And so on. You'd think this would be completely apparent to most people, but I guess not.

You obviously didn't read all the posts before you posted this one. You're assuming that nicotine is highly addictive. That's an easy fallacy to fall for because all the old research on smoking talked about nicotine being the cause of cigarette addiction. Read the posts in this thread and others and check out how many people say nicotine is not particularly addictive for them. There can be dependency like you can experience with coffee, sugar, or in my case shortbread cookies. It's not the sugar in them that gets me, I just miss my one cookie a day when I can't have it for some reason.

I smoked for 37 years. Weaned myself off nicotine over a few months after I got over my cigarette addiction. Stayed off it for nine months, went back on it for a month, off it again for a month and now I use it when I feel like it. Pretty much the same as my use of shortbread cookies . You haven't experienced any of this because you never smoked.

You have the opportunity to learn something about nicotine addiction here Benny, but you have listen to people who have experienced this and you have to want to learn from those people.

Good luck with it

 

[Ryedan]

Yea, me too.

I've also noticed that people that vape very low nicotine seem to vape a lot. A lot more than me anyway. Since I'm on the cheap side, I don't want to go through a 30ml bottle of liquid every couple days.

I don't know how much you vape Caridwen, but I go through the same 2 - 4 ml a day if I'm vaping zero nic or 6 mg. The range isn't affected by nic content, but simply by how often I vape on any particular day. I also mostly use a sub-ohm, dual coil Trident RDA which vaporizes a lot of juice per puff, so I'm definitely far away from chain vaping all day.

I do know that some people vape more using lower nic juice, but not everyone does. I would go so far as to suggest that I'm not that unusual (OK, so some people would disagree with that ) and that IMO most people's experience is similar to mine.

 

[GoodNews!]

One of the things that I've really devoted my life to is studying psychology, anything from sexuality, to religious preferences, to addiction, to mental disorders, everything.

Concerning smoking, this is what I have to say:

I believe there's two or three main factors in smoking cigarettes. One is a chemical addition - where a person is flat out addicted to nicotine, and has nicotine withdraw. One is a non-chemical psychological craving - usually stemmed from social or sexual factors, such as friends who smoke and the person feeling as though they fit in when they smoke, or even a person being sexually aroused by people who smoke and want to smoke themselves. And one is mental relaxation - a blend of the fact that nicotine may or may not be relaxing to their brain, and that smoking, apart from any other factor, gives them the time to separate themselves from the daily schedule and have a few private minutes, or to enjoy the flavor of cigarette smoke.

I personally fall under the last two categories - A. Smoking cigarettes gives me a "break" from everything else, a few minutes to spend with myself. B. I enjoy the act of inhaling and exhaling smoke, the simple aspect of it is calming to me. C. I actually do enjoy the flavors of a nice tobacco. and D. The most "compelling" thing I guess is, yes, if I don't smoke at least a cigarette a day, I feel like I'm sort of breaking away from a social circle that smokes, and I never wanted to be the guy who has to say, "Nah, I don't smoke, I'm a health freak.'' It's not a common thought, but it has been present.

However, though, I'm not addicted to nicotine and I know it. For one, nicotine often makes me feel sick - I rarely inhale smoke into my lungs for this reason. It simply doesn't give me much relaxation and simply makes me feel nasty. If given just the right amount in vapor, it can make me feel a buzz, but because I'm so intolerant to nicotine, I rarely find that good ratio, and especially with cigarettes, I don't try to get a buzz anymore because, again, it'll just make me sick. I could really care less about nicotine, and that's why I try to vape 0mg.

However, with replacing nicotine with other positive factors, which is one of the #1 rules of psychological or chemical addiction, my journey has dictated that I want a clean, healthy, yet full taste from my vaping devices. With conditions like asthma and coughing, tasting too much wick material in the vapor sends me into attacks. I literally hate tasting material in my vape, it's never a good taste to me. What keeps me to vaping is searching out and finding the devices that don't do this to me, and instead give me a full, deep, smooth, juicy taste that really hits my tongue in the most authentic tasting way. Simply put, if I vape a grape juice, I want to taste the juicy grapes, and not grape cotton candy or grape wall insulation.

The taste of vapor, and the positive emotional thoughts and chemical releases that the enjoyment of taste alone can bring, IS powerful enough to substitute nicotine in my opinion, yet I believe that the majority of devices out there don't give the user a clean taste, which keeps people focusing less on taste and more on nicotine delivery as the positive of vaping. If you want to cut back, experiencing authentic, magical, and mind-blowing flavor from your atomizer is the way to go, as this opens up new possibilities - obviously, you can probably spread vaping to more people using taste rather than nicotine or cruddy tobacco flavors. People, imo, would rather vape a magical taste than simply feel like their vaping something unhealthy and harsh. And two, the mind can sit there and study flavors and be reminded of positive memories if the flavor is deep and clean to the point of being truly interesting.

Also, when getting a clean flavor, I have no doubt in my mind that vapor that is free from wicky tasting particles helps sooth the throat and lungs, while vapor that is wicky and dirtier tasting has a direct negative effect - again, I get asthma attacks and coughing fits whenever my vapor tastes like hazy silica, or a silica bite. That's my stance, and for those suffering from these conditions, vaping 0mg with a clean, full taste combination can help sooth like it's something unreal, another positive to vaping. I also notice that with a clean vape as opposed to a dirty vape, that my vocal chords really clear and open up, a tremendous positive in my vocal career. There's so many positives to vaping that 0mg liquid is easy to incorporate in your life, but you have to make sure the other positives are truly there before the experience will be satisfying. Elsewise, you'll be puffing along on a weak, thin, flat, dirty vapor and you'll be asking yourself, "Why am I even vaping this!?"

0mg juice is probably the worst at allowing a coil and wick to give you nasty feedoff flavors, as there's no nicotine pepperyness to really cover it up, but finding the atomizer that works well for it really is a match made in heaven. I believe a lot of people would really put down the nicotine as soon as they taste some of the real complexities and authenticity in the juices they vape!

 

[Bennylava]

So many replies here, I don't really want to read each one. But I read a good portion of them, and it seems like there are a few things to note.

1. Some people simply don't care that they have a physical addiction. For some reason. I guess that's all fine and well, until it isn't.

2. A small percentage of people have actually weened way down.

3. It's very likely that the cigarette companies were sticking other things in there to keep you more addicted than if they just cut down a tobacco leaf and stuffed it in a cigarette. As such, most people here probably wouldn't suffer near as much if they couldn't vape. Except for those people who insist on using a very high nic level.

4. There is no point in arguing with someone against their physical addiction. It simply doesn't work. Everyone I know that smokes still says "Eh, oh well." Or "Everybody's got to die of something". As if they won't be concerned about it when it comes time to pay the price. But that's how I find most people to be anyway, they really don't care until its time to pay up. Then they suddenly care a great deal. Few people seem to like to plan for the future.

 

[Ryedan]

So many replies here, I don't really want to read each one. But I read a good portion of them, and it seems like there are a few things to note.

1. Some people simply don't care that they have a physical addiction. For some reason. I guess that's all fine and well, until it isn't.

2. A small percentage of people have actually weened way down.

3. It's very likely that the cigarette companies were sticking other things in there to keep you more addicted than if they just cut down a tobacco leaf and stuffed it in a cigarette. As such, most people here probably wouldn't suffer near as much if they couldn't vape. Except for those people who insist on using a very high nic level.

4. There is no point in arguing with someone against their physical addiction. It simply doesn't work. Everyone I know that smokes still says "Eh, oh well." Or "Everybody's got to die of something". As if they won't be concerned about it when it comes time to pay the price. But that's how I find most people to be anyway, they really don't care until its time to pay up. Then they suddenly care a great deal. Few people seem to like to plan for the future.

You start a thread and then don't want to read all the responses.

You read most and ignore what people who know significantly more than you about nicotine are telling you.

Bye bye.

 

[Ryedan]

One of the things that I've really devoted my life to is studying psychology, anything from sexuality, to religious preferences, to addiction, to mental disorders, everything.

Concerning smoking, this is what I have to say:

I believe there's two or three main factors in smoking cigarettes. One is a chemical addition - where a person is flat out addicted to nicotine, and has nicotine withdraw. One is a non-chemical psychological craving - usually stemmed from social or sexual factors, such as friends who smoke and the person feeling as though they fit in when they smoke, or even a person being sexually aroused by people who smoke and want to smoke themselves. And one is mental relaxation - a blend of the fact that nicotine may or may not be relaxing to their brain, and that smoking, apart from any other factor, gives them the time to separate themselves from the daily schedule and have a few private minutes, or to enjoy the flavor of cigarette smoke.

I always thought you must be a scholar GoodNews. It really comes through in your deep understanding of why people smoke.

Maybe you could collaborate with Benny and both of you could take your work here to new heights. Just my

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Now it all becomes clear.

Benny, point #4 says it all. IF you truly are not ANTZ, or a troll then the many years of smoking has caught up with you, hasn't it?

And you know (if you smoked for any length of time) that it doesn't matter what anyone says, you are going to do what you want to. Yes, blame it on any addiction you like, but it still remains true. So, your warnings here are falling on deaf ears, especially in your presentation. Had you said that ecigs were made available too late for you, then these responses would not been nearly as harsh.

Understand that your choice to smoke and all of our choices to smoke and continuing to do so(some do both) or to vape(at whatever nic level we choose), it is still our right for the freedom to do so.


It is sad that BP and BT and the government uses people for lining their pockets or keeping their jobs at the cost of our health and lives. This is why ecigs are so successful. They free us from all of that BS and puts us in charge of what we decide goes into our bodies. And so sets the stage for the battles that are just beginning.

I smoked cigarettes for over 40 years(started really young, around 10 yo) and I could tell you that every time something new was added to cigarettes I felt it or tasted it. They never smelled as horrid then as they now do. That is because they now line the paper the cigarette are rolled in with a flame ......ant. When I began smoking I knew I could put them down and walk away without much trouble. Then as the years went by, I knew when they started putting other additives in them, just by the difference in the tastes and smell. They started putting in additional chemicals to target the pleasure center in the brain to keep you coming back for more and being so dependent on them that you do become so obsessed as you cannot do anything without them but have a tizzy fit if you get close to running out. It is an all encompassing addition, social behavior, emotional behavior, psychological behavior as well as physical. So to blame cigarettes or a vaping addiction solely on nicotine is just so lame and extremely shallow.

So, I do hope that whatever you were trying to accomplish by posting your thoughts/warning/whatever it was- was achieved.

BTW--we did listen, you appear to just not like the answers provided.

 

[440BB]

I would have hoped the OP would have learned something by reading the answers to their question.

At least how to spell the word wean.

 

[WattWick]

Are we really playing the "It's the addiction talking"-card when it comes to vaping?

... not much experience with addiction, have we? True addiction changes you. It tears you up. It makes you lie, and it makes you think of lies in advance. It makes you SICK when you can't have what you are addicted to. Like, every muscle and bone in your body IS pain. You NEED whatever you are addicted to. Which makes you go to great extremes to obtain it, and to hide the fact that you are addicted; in case anyone would try to stop you from getting/using it.

No. Vaping is nothing at all like that. But I guess it's just my addiction doing the talking for me. My body, mind and mouth is a vessel for evil nicotine. I call BS.

 

[tj99959]

Are you weening down? Why not?

Because I don't want to!

 

[Jman8]

There is no point in arguing with someone against their physical addiction. It simply doesn't work. Everyone I know that smokes still says "Eh, oh well." Or "Everybody's got to die of something". As if they won't be concerned about it when it comes time to pay the price. But that's how I find most people to be anyway, they really don't care until its time to pay up. Then they suddenly care a great deal. Few people seem to like to plan for the future.

Bolded part is most relevant item you, the OP, has contributed to this thread.

I can't think of any addiction, habit, physical things that people (allegedly) enjoy that when confronted in vein of, you need to stop using this, that works via some sense of shaming. And I truly believe, the psychology involved, will make that sort of confrontation lead the person (or people) to want it even more. Cause, they'll find justifications for why they think they enjoy it, and then continue to use that justification regardless of evidence or wisdom that might be leading them in direction of 'use moderately, with enjoyment.'

Other than air and water, I honestly cannot think of anything that wouldn't be wise to wean down on, including work and food. In moderation, everything comes off as a nice choice, okay behavior. When heavy use/abuse enters the picture, it gets less pretty and if enough people are doing it, it gets deemed societal problem. Won't anyone think of the children?

Yet, shaming that something is not effective. I think we like to believe that shaming can work, and if it appears to work for a split second in dialogue, we think shaming is good/righteous. When reality is, we could certainly use some weaning down on shaming.

What works to halt heavy usage of really anything is people who have traveled the same road, gone a little further down the path of heavy abuse, played all or most of the mind games to justify continued use, and then come full circle to share their personal story which serves as an example of how to use an item without perpetuating the cycle of guilt, fear, worry or suffering. While that most often has the effect of weaning down or eliminating, it almost always carries the wisdom that says this item that I abused is not the problem. This item is ultimately meaningless. It was my approach and mind games that I played with it that was / is the problem. For there are others who can and do use this moderately, and who can walk away from it without it wreaking havoc in their life.

Anyway, while I could ramble on forever on that tangent, I'd just note what post #131 was getting across - vaping is nowhere near anything like other addictions. Very unlikely to wreak havoc in your life, and very challenging to find vapers in the entire community who are playing mind games that amount to desire for self inflicted abuse and suffering. It is simply not on par with smoking and not sure what it is on par with, but I'd say at its worse, it is akin to a shopaholic.

 

[edyle]

Part of the purpose of quitting smoking, is no longer being addicted to a drug. We all had such trouble quitting, because the nicotine was so highly addictive. Just think about how it felt, all those times you tried to quit cold turkey. So you must admit, that part of the reason you quit, and why you kept smoking, was the addiction. The addiction is tied directly to the negative health effects of smoking, because if you weren't addicted, you would have been able to quit much easier, and we wouldn't have nearly as many vapers as we have today. Also vaping may not have ever been needed, as quitting cold turkey would have been a lot easier.

That said, why do so many vapers (probably nearly all of you) continue to just vape at whatever nicotine levels you were smoking at? Its so easy to just ween down now. I started at 18mg, (iirc) and slowly, over time, got down to 0mg. This did take a few years. But I did it. There are plenty of places out there that will let you go in intervals of 2mg, up or down. The place in town where I buy most of my vape juice also does this. I went down to 16, 14, 12, 10, etc etc until I got to zero. If for whatever reason, I can not vape, no big deal. So why don't most people do this? Why would you want to remain addicted, so that if something happens where you just can't vape, you go into freakout mode? Its actually disgusting to watch. There are plenty of situations that could arise that could prevent you from being able to vape, possibly for days at a time. Nicotine has also been linked to stomach cancer so that's another reason.

Why don't most people do? Because most people are not the same.

I myself use 0 nic most of the time; unlike you it did not take me a couple years, I just kept 2 tanks, 1 with 0 and the other with some nic in case I needed it occasionally; my main puff machine was the 0 nic.

After you're messed up you lungs anyway, us older smokers can't really get the kind of hit we used to get when we were younger, but for younger smoker, they might still be able to enjoy a nicotine hit from a vape, and if they can get it without the worry of the SMOKE, then great! Big improvement. After all, it never was the nicotine that was the problem, it was the SMOKE.

 

[pamdis]

So many replies here, I don't really want to read each one. But I read a good portion of them, and it seems like there are a few things to note.

1. Some people simply don't care that they have a physical addiction. For some reason. I guess that's all fine and well, until it isn't.

2. A small percentage of people have actually weened way down.

3. It's very likely that the cigarette companies were sticking other things in there to keep you more addicted than if they just cut down a tobacco leaf and stuffed it in a cigarette. As such, most people here probably wouldn't suffer near as much if they couldn't vape. Except for those people who insist on using a very high nic level.

4. There is no point in arguing with someone against their physical addiction. It simply doesn't work. Everyone I know that smokes still says "Eh, oh well." Or "Everybody's got to die of something". As if they won't be concerned about it when it comes time to pay the price. But that's how I find most people to be anyway, they really don't care until its time to pay up. Then they suddenly care a great deal. Few people seem to like to plan for the future.

I was interested in your original post and thought you were seriously curious why some do not taper to 0 and then give up vaping. The question has been asked many times, and it seems helpful for people to get serious answers to the question.

Obviously, you were not interested in answers. You simply disguised your edict in question form. I would normally let this go without commenting, but your completely dismissive attitude outrages me like nothing else I have seen on this forum.

I was ready to write a long post explaining why I still vape 18mg and why I will continue to do so for the rest of my life, but I have decided you're half right - there is no point in arguing with someone....against their self-righteousness.

 

[burtonsnowww]

started at 18 and down to 6 about 80 days later...

 

[jhelliwell]

As much as the OP's viewpoint has annoyed me and others here, This thread is awesome and I've enjoyed it thoroughly

 

[Cuando]

I cut down to 4mg and can chain vape if I want, or not touch my PV for hours. At this point I'm vaping mostly habitually. I enjoy the ritual of smoking, I just don't enjoy the whole 'dieing of cancer/killing myself slowly' part. I may never give up vaping, but I cannot let myself go back to smoking. Ever.

 

[WillyZee]

As much as the OP's viewpoint has annoyed me and others here, This thread is awesome and I've enjoyed it thoroughly

someone, please get this man a light beer

 

[AegisPrime]

... not much experience with addiction, have we? True addiction changes you. It tears you up. It makes you lie, and it makes you think of lies in advance. It makes you SICK when you can't have what you are addicted to. Like, every muscle and bone in your body IS pain. You NEED whatever you are addicted to. Which makes you go to great extremes to obtain it, and to hide the fact that you are addicted; in case anyone would try to stop you from getting/using it.

I think that's a very extreme way to look at addiction (not wrong, just extreme) - I recognise the addictive effect nicotine has on me - if I'm getting low on e-liquid I get stressed about it because I don't want to run out. If I can't vape for whatever reason and I want to I'll get distracted and irritable. Thus far I haven't had to, but I've no doubt that if my vapemail doesn't arrive on time I'll probably pick up some cigarettes to tide me over until it does - I don't want to but I probably will.

I'm on a pretty low income at the moment and there's been times in the past when I've had to choose between eating and smoking - and every time I've picked smoking - if that's not an addiction, I don't know what is. Not as extreme as your examples (which I'm very familiar with) but it is what it is.

Since I've only been vaping for a couple of weeks now, I can't say whether I'll still be doing this in a few years time - maybe I'll reduce my nic levels down to zero and maybe I won't - I've always enjoyed smoking and I enjoy vaping - I didn't switch to quit, I switched to do something I enjoy without poisoning myself and for now, that's good enough.