Ask your favorite suppliers to remove diacetyl from their e-liquids!

[shanagan]

Okay that sounds like a good plan.
So please bear with me when I ask the next question...
What do you think people like myself should do? I am only 4 weeks into vaping, and am overloaded with info that I have read on the forum. I am feeling panicky right now as I am not sure what to do to make sure I am being as cautious as possible.
Any insight anyone could provide me would be greatly appreciated. I am freaking out right now.

Sorry to .... in, but I have to add my .02. I think first, find out who your supplier uses for flavoring. If it is FlavourArt, take a look at the diacetyl-containing liquids page. If you wish to avoid diacetyl altogether, then these flavors will obviously be out. From there, if a flavor is mixed by your vendor - say, "Gyro with Tzaziki sauce" ask them specific questions - "does it use FlavourArt's yogurt flavor?" and so on.

Some vendors may not be honest with you or may not know and err on the side of more orders - I think "for me" unless I know for sure they use a particular non-diacetyl butter flavor, I will skip the buttered-toffee-whatever (butter being the most obvious and easy to avoid on the list). I think it's probably become very important to me that I build relationships I feel I can trust - I emailed another vendor asking about their juice and his response was that he's checking, but can't say for sure if their juice does or does not contain it at this time. I can't ask for any better or more honest communication than that, really.

I think the key is to ask questions and let our vendors know that we're not willing to take the chance unknowingly. It's time for a little - just on the side of caution - transparency, and we have to be willing to demand that from our suppliers.

I like most people I've ordered from, and am "friendly" with them on ECF. But they're not my friends, they are suppliers of a product that I willingly draw into my lungs, and it's not too much to ask to know what the heck is in there. Anyone who suggests otherwise can kiss my business goodbye.

 

[bpaulette]

Again though... All of this would be much clearer if the data was not so new. There's so much that is still an unknown.

NIOSH only found that the common diacetyl substitute 2,3-Pentanedione was also damaging in March of this year. Up until that point (and perhaps even to this day, I'd guess) plenty of companies used (and may still be using) 2,3-Penanedione in place of Diacetyl, thinking all is well. In my mind, the question remains - if you're not using diacetyl, great! But what is being used instead, and has that chemical undergone any testing in the airways of rats, like they did just recently with pentanedione...

I'm (reluctantly) sticking to flavors that aren't savory, buttery, nutty, etc... Minty and light fruity flavors SEEM to be on the opposite end of the flavor spectrum.

But that's just me. Everyone is welcome to vape what they want. 20 years from now, I'd personally rather look back and laugh at my own paranoia (if it turns out to be far too low of a concentration like cozzicon is convinced), rather than look back and kick myself for ignoring my own concerns as I wait in line for a lung transplant (if it doesn't)

 

[shanagan]

I hear you, bpaulette - I've been hitting a menthol liquid ever since this came to my attention, and have gone so far as to pour some other liquids down the drain.

 

[rolygate]

@Harmony
I'm so sorry that you are worried, and I take my share of the responsibility for that. However, it was beyond time that these issues saw the light of day.

All you need to do is source your e-liquid from a Supplier you trust. If you don't know what their attitude to the safety of ingredients is, email them and ask. Refer them to this thread.

Currently - in this thread - we are just talking about the diacetyl issue, which is a flavoring that might be added to buttery, creamy-tasting mixes. This chemical is safe to eat but not to inhale. If you avoid those types of flavors then you are covered. Otherwise, if you like those flavors, try to find out what the policy of your chosen supplier is on this issue.

There are other materials that by rights shouldn't be in e-liquid, but at the moment that is a separate matter. The only ways to be sure your liquid is as safe as possible are:

1. Only use unflavored liquid.

2. Or, only source e-liquid from a supplier who is known to run regular lab tests (such as Intellicig or eSmoke).

3. Or, mix your own, using for example Intellicig's Ecopure as the base, and add your own flavors that you know to be OK.

It's your decision. Nothing you can inhale is going to be absolutely safe in any case - it's hopefully just a lot safer than smoking.

I go for #3 for my all-day vape, and use more flavors for evening use. I try to get my flavors from a source known to employ a real chemist and known for full disclosure. FlavourArt and DecadentVapours are two such - but to be honest I take a chance sometimes, with other suppliers.

Basically this whole area is about personal decisions. As long as you have the information, you can decide. Please don't get too excited about all this, there are certain to be many people who have consumed large quantities of the 'wrong' things and they are still walking about. Different things affect people differently in any case.

It's good to be able to reduce risk, though, especially since that's why we're all here anyway.

 

[bpaulette]

I hear you, bpaulette - I've been hitting a menthol liquid ever since this came to my attention, and have gone so far as to pour some other liquids down the drain.

Yeah... when I first started researching diacetyl (in august), Butterscotch was my all-day vape... had a carto of it hanging from my mouth as I was reading (in horror)... By the end of that night, it was in the trash. Wasn't helped when one of the stories I found about workers in a candy shop getting it, and the graphic they used for the story was a butterscotch candy. I still miss that butterscotch... but I don't miss it so much that I regret making the switch... just in case

 

[harmony]

@Harmony
I'm so sorry that you are worried, and I take my share of the responsibility for that. However, it was beyond time that these issues saw the light of day.

All you need to do is source your e-liquid from a Supplier you trust. If you don't know what their attitude to the safety of ingredients is, email them and ask. Refer them to this thread.

Currently - in this thread - we are just talking about the diacetyl issue, which is a flavoring that might be added to buttery, creamy-tasting mixes. This chemical is safe to eat but not to inhale. If you avoid those types of flavors then you are covered. Otherwise, if you like those flavors, try to find out what the policy of your chosen supplier is on this issue.

There are other materials that by rights shouldn't be in e-liquid, but at the moment that is a separate matter. The only ways to be sure your liquid is as safe as possible are:

1. Only use unflavored liquid.

2. Or, only source e-liquid from a supplier who is known to run regular lab tests (such as Intellicig or eSmoke).

3. Or, mix your own, using for example Intellicig's Ecopure as the base, and add your own flavors that you know to be OK.

It's your decision. Nothing you can inhale is going to be absolutely safe in any case - it's hopefully just a lot safer than smoking.

I go for #3 for my all-day vape, and use more flavors for evening use. I try to get my flavors from a source known to employ a real chemist and known for full disclosure. FlavourArt and DecadentVapours are two such - but to be honest I take a chance sometimes, with other suppliers.

Basically this whole area is about personal decisions. As long as you have the information, you can decide. Please don't get too excited about all this, there are certain to be many people who have consumed large quantities of the 'wrong' things and they are still walking about. Different things affect people differently in any case.

It's good to be able to reduce risk, though, especially since that's why we're all here anyway.

Thank you for the clarification and feedback. I also appreciate you taking the time to let me know of some vendors that are being responsible with their production.
I have heard that vapor renu states they do not use this component, but agree that without more proof it is still russian roulette.
Thanks again!

 

[harmony]

Sorry to .... in, but I have to add my .02. I think first, find out who your supplier uses for flavoring. If it is FlavourArt, take a look at the diacetyl-containing liquids page. If you wish to avoid diacetyl altogether, then these flavors will obviously be out. From there, if a flavor is mixed by your vendor - say, "Gyro with Tzaziki sauce" ask them specific questions - "does it use FlavourArt's yogurt flavor?" and so on.

Some vendors may not be honest with you or may not know and err on the side of more orders - I think "for me" unless I know for sure they use a particular non-diacetyl butter flavor, I will skip the buttered-toffee-whatever (butter being the most obvious and easy to avoid on the list). I think it's probably become very important to me that I build relationships I feel I can trust - I emailed another vendor asking about their juice and his response was that he's checking, but can't say for sure if their juice does or does not contain it at this time. I can't ask for any better or more honest communication than that, really.

I think the key is to ask questions and let our vendors know that we're not willing to take the chance unknowingly. It's time for a little - just on the side of caution - transparency, and we have to be willing to demand that from our suppliers.

I like most people I've ordered from, and am "friendly" with them on ECF. But they're not my friends, they are suppliers of a product that I willingly draw into my lungs, and it's not too much to ask to know what the heck is in there. Anyone who suggests otherwise can kiss my business goodbye.

Thank you for your reply! I appreciate it.
I will be dumping out some of my juice tonight.

 

[shanagan]

Thank you for your reply! I appreciate it.
I will be dumping out some of my juice tonight.

Harm reduction: In for a penny, in for another $50 order somewhere.

 

[FieryOne]

And yet the market is flooded with unsafe products. Many people wouldnt even eat what we willingly inhale..
People demand unsafe yet tasty, fun, or otherwise stimulating junk....flavored industrial chemicals anyone!?
Your right, certificates dont mean squat.

Really? I'm fairly new and haven't run across anything bad yet....but I do tend to stick to recommended suppliers. I guess I'd like to know what unsafe stuff is out there so I can avoid it.

 

[pcijohn]

I was just falling in love with Hopscotch. From what I am trying to determine from this thread is that probaly is a high risk flavor.

 

[harmony]

Harm reduction: In for a penny, in for another $50 order somewhere.

Yes ma'am

 

[shanagan]

I was just falling in love with Hopscotch. From what I am trying to determine from this thread is that probaly is a high risk flavor.

I poured out the remainder of mine, plus a brand new bottle of french toast that was just getting good. le sigh.

Ironically, thanks to their complete disclosure and "vape-specific" juices, another member PMed me that she's ordering from FlavourArt (not just flavorings, either) and I might follow suit in a few days.

 

[harmony]

I poured out the remainder of mine, plus a brand new bottle of french toast that was just getting good. le sigh.

Ironically, thanks to their complete disclosure and "vape-specific" juices, another member PMed me that she's ordering from FlavourArt (not just flavorings, either) and I might follow suit in a few days.

So you would have to DIY if you ordered from them?

 

[LynGBH]

I was just falling in love with Hopscotch. From what I am trying to determine from this thread is that probaly is a high risk flavor.

Sadly, out goes my Butterscotch Almond, Almond Joy and RY4.....

The fact that I considered the supplier just that, not a "friend", makes it a bit easier for me than some others doing the same, though.

I'm sticking with VaporRenu, Backwoods Brew and DIY.

 

[pcijohn]

Any info yet on TastyVapor liquids?

 

[Antwoord]

So you would have to DIY if you ordered from them?

No, they have a section called Vapor Heaven with plain unflavored juice, and then where you get to specify what flavor you would like. The standard shipping is reasonable, but for customers in the U.S. the website said it could take 4 to 14 days. Even if it takes a month the fact that they do have full disclosure and a list of what to avoid really makes me feel better about ordering from them.

 

[shanagan]

So you would have to DIY if you ordered from them?

Yes, but they've got a section (Fumo elettronico :: ..Heaven Juice MIX and TAKE - Flavourart. La sartoria degli aromi) where you can do a sort of quick DIY. They are in Italy, so pricing is in Euro's to start, but if you dig around enough you'll find the spot to change it to US dollars (I found it once I was at the shopping cart).

To get, for instance, 100ml of 36mg nicotine unflavored nic juice, it'd be $46 shipped (slow, no tracking) to the US.

 

[shanagan]

No, they have a section called Vapor Heaven with plain unflavored juice, and then where you get to specify what flavor you would like. The standard shipping is reasonable, but for customers in the U.S. the website said it could take 4 to 14 days. Even if it takes a month the fact that they do have full disclosure and a list of what to avoid really makes me feel better about ordering from them.

I completely agree - obviously! LOL

 

[GiMante]

I poured out the remainder of mine, plus a brand new bottle of french toast that was just getting good. le sigh.

Ironically, thanks to their complete disclosure and "vape-specific" juices, another member PMed me that she's ordering from FlavourArt (not just flavorings, either) and I might follow suit in a few days.

I poured out approx. 325ml of juice. I had no qualms about it either.

I will also be following suit and ordering specific flavors for DIY'ing.

 

[GoodDog]

I don't understand why you guys would even want to use FlavourArt when they are the only FDA (UK equivalent) flavoring company mentioned that still even uses diacetyl. There are several US flavoring companies that are FDA regulated and don't use any so there is no possibility of them or you making a mistake.