Big Tobacco For E-Cig!?

[crashtestjeep]

I figured big tob would have the attitude of if we cant beat em, join em...I just hope big gov doesnt find some way to tax the crap out of them....the more the merrier, except when it comes to taxes

 

[Scott EE]

i did a rough back of napkin calculation of my new habit and it comes out to just under $1.50 a day for juice and gear using 60 days as a breakdown time for batts and attys.

I used to spend $4.13 a day on marlboro menthol lights not sure if they would be willing to take that kind of revenue cut. All I know is I'm unwilling to pay $4.13 a day anymore regardless of how good their option turns out.

Turns out I'm addicted to saving money as well as nicotine. In fact I really hate the expensive proprietary design of the batts on 510, tornado, mega batts. My next PV will be one that accepts regular batts like all the mods. BB/SB I have my eye on you!

I think they will end up with a product that is too little too late. Like others mentioned some sealed design cart that is incredibly overpriced compared to buying juice and refilling your own. And go back to bribing folks for more regulation to strangle the ecig players.

As much as I am pessimistic about their planned offering I'll take a wait and see approach. Maybe they revolutionize the market and surprise us all.

 

[kimsark]

One thing you can be sure of ... Big Tobacco is going to take care of Big Tobacco and the rest be damned. That's how Big Business survives.

 

[bhima]

One thing you can be sure of ... Big Tobacco is going to take care of Big Tobacco and the rest be damned. That's how Big Business survives.

This is the truth. I worry about big tobacco breaking into the market not because they will add "deadly chemicals" or make their devices a closed system, I think they will try and work with some of their bought and paid for members of the house and senate to regulate e-cigs to the point where our beloved small e-liquid providers and modders could not stay in business anymore. Taxing is not going to be the problem, the problem will lie directly in the potential collusion between big tobacco and the FDA on e-liquid.

We already know that there isn't a great standard out there yet for nicotine levels in e-juice, and we should agree that there should be some standard for manufacturers to follow. I think Big Tobacco will use that fact as a way to make it near impossible for a small company to be "in compliance" with the "new standards". What you'll have is another good idea (having some sort of e-liquid standard), that has been completely tainted by the corporate influence within the government. So no, any article that tells of Philip Morris or any other Big Tobacco company getting involved with e-cigs should be met with skepticism and worry.

I believe government can do many things extremely more effectively than most on this board, but I'm not naive to the prominence of corporate influence and collusion that does go on with many members in congress.

 

[Gamer]

This is the truth. I worry about big tobacco breaking into the market not because they will add "deadly chemicals" or make their devices a closed system, I think they will try and work with some of their bought and paid for members of the house and senate to regulate e-cigs to the point where our beloved small e-liquid providers and modders could not stay in business anymore. Taxing is not going to be the problem, the problem will lie directly in the potential collusion between big tobacco and the FDA on e-liquid.

We already know that there isn't a great standard out there yet for nicotine levels in e-juice, and we should agree that there should be some standard for manufacturers to follow. I think Big Tobacco will use that fact as a way to make it near impossible for a small company to be "in compliance" with the "new standards". What you'll have is another good idea (having some sort of e-liquid standard), that has been completely tainted by the corporate influence within the government. So no, any article that tells of Philip Morris or any other Big Tobacco company getting involved with e-cigs should be met with skepticism and worry.

I believe government can do many things extremely more effectively than most on this board, but I'm not naive to the prominence of corporate influence and collusion that does go on with many members in congress.

A Monopoly... The law is just like the game... You have all the money you Win the Monopoly

I am sure BT would find ways of closing out small business and would patent anything they could.

 

[clownfish159]

I figured big tob would have the attitude of if we cant beat em, join em...I just hope big gov doesnt find some way to tax the crap out of them....the more the merrier, except when it comes to taxes

Well, they could never tax the PG or the VG in the same as they have analogs. But the nic juice they very well could. BUT if THAT ever happens, we will just have to buy juices without nicotine and then add our own nicotine by patch,tobacco leaf,gum,or something. If it ever does happen I am quite sure we would all work together to find a way to save!

 

[sherid]

I've been saying for a long time that anyone who believes that BT has not been in this game for a long time is just foolish. They are, by no stretch of the imagination, stupid, and they have some of the best research facilities in the world. My friend's husband does inspections for many companies all over the globe. One of his clients is Phillip Morris, and he is in Richmond for two weeks. He promised his wife that he would bring back a free e cig from the factory. They are available only to reps and others who have a connection to PM. I asked her to ask him to bring me one also. We shall see.

 

[Rainman]

As someone who was also raised to believe that big tobacco is inherently evil, I understand where people are coming from regarding apprehension of big tobacco getting into electronic cigarettes.

However, I also think its safe to assume (for moral and business reasons) that big tobacco will come out with the safest product they can. These would bring some industry standards to the picture...

I don't think that it is all bad.

 

[5cardstud]

O've wondered about the loss to farmers myself. I'm currently living in Kentucky and the farms here seem to sport three things: Tobacco, corn, and/or horses. I love e-cigs but I dislike the idea about some of these smaller family farms gowing under.

Well they need to get the nicotine from somewhere.

 

[Lusak]

One thing you can be sure of ... Big Tobacco is going to take care of Big Tobacco and the rest be damned. That's how Big Business survives.

This is all too true, but don't forget that this is a huge boon.

If big tobacco is talking about joining the world of e-cigarettes, we're soon to see the most support e-cigarettes have ever had.

 

[vapourking]

Interesting news, thanks!

 

[son et lumiere]

The biggest thing that comes to mind is that a company this big would be devolping something they may actually produce a very good product.

 

[TropicalBob]

Sherid is 100% correct. Big Tobacco has followed its own path to marketing what might be called a smokeless cigarette. The most recent attempt is the Aria from Philip Morris. It's a misting device, rather than a vaporizer.

But also look at earlier attempts for the Accord, Premier, Eclipse, Heatbar. All of them used tobacco rather than liquid, but the tobacco was soaked with propylene glycol and the product produced more vapor than smoke, since the tobacco was not burned. It was heated by a charcoal lump in the tip.

And everyone saw what happened to the Favor -- banned by the FDA.

China beat Big Tobacco to the market with a fully electronic, vaporizing unit. Rest assured that PM and RJR and Lorrillard have been at work on similar devices, likely without sufficient success to market a product. Maybe Big Tobacco recognizes that a fully electronic product delivering a nicotine-laced chemical concoction would be a "new drug" and "drug delivery device," thus requiring years of clinical testing.

The goal has been a true tobacco cigarette that didn't "smoke".

Let us know what you get, Sherid. As you said, Big Tobacco execs are not fools and are not stupid.

 

[sherid]

Sherid is 100% correct. Big Tobacco has followed its own path to marketing what might be called a smokeless cigarette. The most recent attempt is the Aria from Philip Morris. It's a misting device, rather than a vaporizer.

But also look at earlier attempts for the Accord, Premier, Eclipse, Heatbar. All of them used tobacco rather than liquid, but the tobacco was soaked with propylene glycol and the product produced more vapor than smoke, since the tobacco was not burned. It was heated by a charcoal lump in the tip.

And everyone saw what happened to the Favor -- banned by the FDA.

China beat Big Tobacco to the market with a fully electronic, vaporizing unit. Rest assured that PM and RJR and Lorrillard have been at work on similar devices, likely without sufficient success to market a product. Maybe Big Tobacco recognizes that a fully electronic product delivering a nicotine-laced chemical concoction would be a "new drug" and "drug delivery device," thus requiring years of clinical testing.

The goal has been a true tobacco cigarette that didn't "smoke".

Let us know what you get, Sherid. As you said, Big Tobacco execs are not fools and are not stupid.

I'm hoping my acquaintance doesn't forget. Even if she does, she will have one that I can sample.

 

[AllCoExPat]

I see another government subsidy coming on, getting paid to NOT grow something.

The state of Maryland has done that for years. Tobacco use to be the major cash crop for the southern and eastern parts of the state... Now you've got to look hard for a real operating tobacco farm.

 

[voltaire]

But also look at earlier attempts for the Accord, Premier, Eclipse, Heatbar. All of them used tobacco rather than liquid, but the tobacco was soaked with propylene glycol and the product produced more vapor than smoke, since the tobacco was not burned. It was heated by a charcoal lump in the tip.

And everyone saw what happened to the Favor -- banned by the FDA.

I knew of all the others you mentioned, but I had to look up "Favor" (I thought maybe you meant "flavor cigs") The first relevant result of my search yielded this interesting and sobering letter on TobaccoDocuments.org :
Regulatory Letter. Favor Smokeless Cigarettes. [it's a short read]

 

[ChipCurtis]

I knew of all the others you mentioned, but I had to look up "Favor" (I thought maybe you meant "flavor cigs") The first relevant result of my search yielded this interesting and sobering letter on TobaccoDocuments.org :
Regulatory Letter. Favor Smokeless Cigarettes. [it's a short read]

You can bet that if an American had invented the modern PV (that we have all come to know and love), it would have been canned in an instant. As long as China allows rampant manufacture of this device, it will never be stamped out like those prior attempts at a PV. Perhaps we all owe a debt of gratitude to the natural powers of the universe that this PV was invented by a Chinaman.

 

[Xenu]

It is actually possible to extract nicotine from potato skins or tomatoes, but the amount that they contain is minuscule compared to what's in a tobacco leaf. Tobacco is still the most efficient and plentiful way to obtain nicotine.

Ive considered that, but think about the legalities. If the nicotine came from somewhere other than tobacco, could that be used to fight the FDA?

 

[ChipCurtis]

Ive considered that, but think about the legalities. If the nicotine came from somewhere other than tobacco, could that be used to fight the FDA?

It could certainly be used to circumvent their regulations.

Bill Godshall mentioned this somewhere, something along the lines of "it's the quantity that makes the poison". In other words, ANYTHING can be a poison if it's concentrated enough. That includes just about any substance on the face of the planet that (like nicotine) does not occur in such poisonous concentrated form in nature. Sugar, cocoa, salt, pepper, garlic, or anything else you name can be brought into a lab and made in such pure form that ingesting ANY of it could kill you. If you drink 3 gallons of water in the space of 2 minutes, it could kill you.

In any case, I don't see how FDA could have any authority over you if were found to be in possession of nicotine extracted from tomatoes. It's tobacco that they have regulatory authority over. However, they (or some other agency) might have the power to shut down your basement lab where you're doing the extraction, based on other regulations in their arsenal.

 

[Yankee802]

O've wondered about the loss to farmers myself. I'm currently living in Kentucky and the farms here seem to sport three things: Tobacco, corn, and/or horses. I love e-cigs but I dislike the idea about some of these smaller family farms gowing under.

Christ, not like they can't grow another crop, like say (oh just an idea mind you) a crop to be used in biodiesel or food? How about using those acres for wind or solar power? I'm sure the farmers will be fine!