Big Tobacco's involvement in e-cigs; good or bad?

[jaamzhow]

I have read different opinions about Big T sensing profit and opportunity and insinuating itself into the ecig market. Most people seem to have a negative opinion of this based on nothing more than a natural prey response to predator; understandable. I am curious if people have actual factual 0) pros and cons of this inevitability? I haven't decided but; con, we like the small, intimate mom & pop people we deal with; pro, Big T brings alot of political persuasion along.

 

[skyztheLynnit]

gthompson to thread in 3..2..1..

 

[SilverCloud]

Good topic!

I guess there are pro's and con's to the "Big T" getting involved but here's my own worth. I for one, would not trust any product they bring to the table, since they are well-known for hiding the deadly additives, toxins and tainting the research in their products for many years. So why would they be up front and honest now? Big T is simply hoping to monopolize the e-cig industry. Period. They're not trying to promote a seemingly "healthier" product for smokers because they CARE about their customers. They CARE about the 6% (and rising) profit losses they are reporting to date. And our beloved government is losing ....-loads (literally) of tax revenue as well. I'll always continue to support our local "Mom and Pop" dealers, local Brick and Mortar shops, US-made e-cig Mod-makers...and shall never spend one penny on anything Big Tobacco brings to the e-cig table. F-them. <<<< (stepping down from soap box)

And now...time for a vape.

Bri

 

[BostLabs]

And now for a different opinion....

Wait, I don't have a different opinion. I agree with SilverCloud 100%.

Big T doesn't have a very good track record IMHO.

 

[Robino1]

RJR is responsible for writing bills, that we (CASAA) are fighting, all over the US. They ARE trying to get Internet sales banned which would mean death to a lot of small Mom & Pop businesses. Also, the ones that might survive, RJR (BT) is trying to get any places selling eliquid to HAVE to have a tobacco license to sell that liquid, since it is classified as a tobacco product and falls under the FDA jurisdiction.

I don't know where other BT companies stand, but RJR is certainly trying to get our kind of vaping out of their way. That would put them in a great position to corner a huge market with their Vuse type of ecig.

No, I don't think BT is on our side at all.

 

[jaamzhow]

Yeah, these seem to be to general consensus ***distrust*** I keep mulling over the fact that they do have alot of political clout. If they are involved ... they have kept a dangerous product on the market for a long time. If they invest in the ecig market it might bring some protection again the anti smoking/anti nicotine/anti vaping zealots. Just saying.

 

[tnt56]

Agree with my Lady Robino1 100%. I had to miss the CASAA meeting last night due to tornados in the area. Yea it got kinda wild. I'd love to hear some of the highlights, expecially about OK SB 2097 (i think it is). Sounds like we won one minor battle in this war against BT and the ANTZ's.

 

[tnt56]

And the good news is we got round two of the tornados hitting in about 30- 60 minutes. It's nice to have strom trackers for friends. Oh well I'll nap and wait it out..

 

[petyweestraw]

Bad. They make enuff money. Leave it to the little guys.

 

[elwcom]

I for one don't like it, for the reasons mentioned above and of course because I've given BT a fortune over the years and I wouldn't be too thrilled about handing over any more of my hard earned cash to them.

 

[Factor52]

Don't forget Big tobacco includes big wholesale. Every pack of cigarette goes through a distributor of some sort. There are literally millions of dollars in incentives quarterly and yearly from Big Tobacco to these wholesalers. Tobacco wholesalers also lobby state governments for preferential legislation. How do I know? I used to work for a tobacco wholesaler and companies a, b and c etc had commitees that met regularly with representatives from each of the wholesalers to discuss strategy and lobbying efforts. This is why you see so many bills in different states being introduced to require ecig and related items be sold through licensed wholesalers only, as well as banning of internet sales.

Here is an example, say a smoking gun of sorts... the wholesaler I was with was one of many making mad money off of roll your own tobacco.:

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/connecticut/conn-tobacco-tax-scandal-to-return

Big tobacco involvement may help advance research on safety of ecigs, this is a plus, but they are crafty and litigious by necessity, and that is not good for business as we currently know it.

 

[gthompson]

Big Tobacco is not our friend.

 

[Crash Moses]

Yeah, these seem to be to general consensus ***distrust*** I keep mulling over the fact that they do have alot of political clout. If they are involved ... they have kept a dangerous product on the market for a long time. If they invest in the ecig market it might bring some protection again the anti smoking/anti nicotine/anti vaping zealots. Just saying.

There's no "if" about it...they are involved and they have invested in the e-cig market and they will protect that investment any way they see fit.

CASAA: Call to Action! SUPPORT New Version of Oklahoma Bill to Ban E-Cigarette Sales to Minors - HB 2097 (UPDATED)

 

[jimbol]

Big tabacco is in business nothing more, nothing less. And, surprise, so is everyone we are dealing with when we buy our stuff. What do they want? Volume. So their emphasis is going to be getting their stuff in front of the public and what you’ll see is companies (BT and others) finding ways to get our eyes on it. Njoy and Blu are the big players right now. Look at how Njoy has repacked themselves and followed a model of disposables first. Here’s another hint, their CEO came out of big tobacco. It’s no small coincidence that Blu’s best product is their disposable. Repeat customers via kits and such are secondary but it is a consideration. Retail, impulse buying. That’s what they’ll work on. The energy drink is the model. First it was only in convenience stores and now it is in grocery stores. That’s the target. When the other BT players jump in, distribution is what they are going to go after.

Regulation is inevitable starting with the age of the buyers. No kids. To me, that’s of no consequence. Next I think will be the quality of the juices. The FDA did one check, found something, and that report is quoted and referred to (directly or indirectly) in the USA and around the world. It doesn’t matter the report is disputed. It exists and will be the starting point of arguments and laws for a long time to come.

We who use this forum are still the minority of folks who vape. Most start with the disposables. The kits like Blu sells are problematic because they steal shelf space from other products. From what I read cigars are taking the hit on the shelves. The internet marketplace will likely have a shakeout over the next few years.

My crystal ball predicts the ecig minis are where the push is going to come from as the big players come along. The tanks, etc. are a niche market and that market percentage will shink as the product matures. If vaping becomes main stream perhaps more products like JC’s Vea will emerge. The big boys will have to compete so I suspect we will see a continuing of improvement in the equipment. But they aren’t going to do any more than they have to to keep us buying. The model that concerns me is cigarettes themselves. See how many brands have emerged with lesser quality tobacco so that the price point can be lowered. Then, when the market is established, prices will climb again. Think Basic.

 

[tnt56]

Big Tobacco is not our friend.

But gosh GT we loved them for so many years. (That's why they got all the money they do. Set the hook and reel us in). I hope they all go up in ashes.

 

[Myrany]

But gosh GT we loved them for so many years. (That's why they got all the money they do. Set the hook and reel us in). I hope they all go up in ashes.

/off topic warning

I am so glad to see you posted and are ok. I have been watching the news of the devastation in your state. Glad to see you are ok.

 

[bowings]

subscribed

 

[wabbit]

I think that much depends on how smart the big T companies are. They have been under attack with taxes, regulations, education and public opinion diminishing their sales and profits. They now have an opportunity to play both sides of the street. If they want to sell a lot of ecigs, it would be to their advantage to have ecigs officially recognized as a legitimate method to quit smoking. If they put their financial backing and lobbyists to work to that goal, there could be some beneficial results. We might end up with a real study regarding e-juice that might slow down some of the reactionary laws being pass now. It would be to their advantage to be seen as producing products that help reduce the harm from their tradional product lines. It would be good PR for them.

It all depends on how Big T decides to approach the situation.

 

[GaryInTexas]

Hi- I'm from the goverment and I'm here to help you.

" " " " BT " " " " " "

" " " " Big Pharm " " " " " "

and yet I just feel like I'm being stretched over a barrel again. Silly me.

 

[jaamzhow]

Ultimately, Big T will be part of it all, for the rest of our lives, for the rest of time. I was wondering about the tobacco farms; are they owned by farmers or corporate tobacco. All the nicotine in our ejuices is extracted from tobacco; which is purchased from the farms buy who? Extraction labs, big pharm, big tobacco;