You are a slave. You like to think because you speak up for the right to do whatever you want whereever you want it makes you righteous and indignified. The truth is again , If I thought what you were doing jeoprodized my business or its customers in anyway I would ask yoou to stop or leave. I dont disagree with anyones right to personal property.
In a legal sense, I don't disagree with someone banning a behavior based on absolutely nothing but personal bias. I do think that if they do, it's plenty of justification for a boycott of that establishment.
I would love to accomodate everyone but in the end there are but a few poeple who believe their right to do what they want out of convenience trumps everyone elses request to stop such behavior. Ever seen the No shoes, No shirt, No service signs? Sure it doesnt hurt the 7-11 clerk and it may do nothing but offend a more refined person who may happen into the store but it has no ill or adverse consequence to another patron. It does present a liability if the person were hurt.
No shoes, shirt laws are laws. They're based on public health an liabiltiy issues. They're not something the proprietor does at his own discretion because he, or his patrons, might be offended. It does present a reasonable chance of adverse consequences. That's why it's a law and not up to the discretion of the business owner.
Furthermore, I seriously doubt that the vaping ban was a result of popular demand among Starbucks customers. It was likely a corporate decision resulting from the conflation of smoking and vaping, as is constantly reinforced by FDA and anti-tobacco nazi propagandists.
There is an entire chain of malls that has instituted a no-tobacco policy, including snus and dissolvalble tobacco products. Technically that would include Nicorette gum and patches. Do you seriously think that ban was the product of customer demand?
If someone were to drag a starbucks into a courtroom and ask why said starbucks exposed an employee to nicotine laden vapor regardless of concentrate level and that employee claimed harm from the act, what could you tell a judge to make the judge decide that it was a necessary exposure? Would the small payout to quiet the employee or the $100,000 dollar defense be worth the litigation for the right of an individual to aloow you to vape in their presence?-
A suit like that would be instantly thrown out of court. More likely, it would never see the light of day. To even pose such a scenario is proof of how uninformed some people are of how the civil court system operates. It's as firivilous as taking your neighbor to court for the toxic emissions of his lawnmower. It is an established fact that he levels of nicotine contained in an e-cigarette are well below any amount that could be considered harmful. The amount of arsenic allowed in your tap water is more harmful than the amount of nicotine contained in many, many, cubic meters of vapor. Would you take your water utility to court over arsenic exposure? Do yo only drink bottled water? Should you be forced to only drink bottled water? The fact is that Starbucks serves food and beverages to it's customers that contain higher levels of toxins than would be ingested due to inhaling e-cig vapor.
Slave? No I think not. Not a being pigheaded and failing to listen to reason is not being a slave its realizing that minorities "rights" should not come at the expense of everyone around them. You can claim the nicotine concentrate is as low as you want and it doesnt support your right to vape wherever you want even if there is no harm to another.
I don't see any majority of people demanding that we not vape. I see a minority of anti-smoking nazis propagating disinformation in an attempt to create an atmosphere where they do. I see people like you swallowing it hook, line and sinker. I see a bunch of non-sequiturs and arguments based on nothing factual. I see people like you not listening to reason and preferring to believe nonsense and myths and propaganda. The truth has a way of appearing pig headed because it doesn't change, regardless of the hysteria and scare tactics of the absolutists and propagandists.
Just as another reference, pounding my palms on a counter-top in a drum type session probably wont hurt anyone around me and would cause no ill effects to those who heard it, it would probably be annoying especially if they were in a quiet setting enjoying a beverage. Should I consider this a "right" as well because it wasnt prohibited by law ? Should I consider myself a passifist slave because I can expect that someone will ask me to stop and out of common courtesy I should abide? Think guys.Defiance isnt always a good steward of the cause.
Drumming your hand on a table can be interpreted as annoying by a reasonable person. The fact that nearly everyone agrees is evidence of that. The fact you used it as an example is evidence of that. Ever heard of the "reasonable man" doctrine? That's how cases like that are judged. You have no right to do something that would annoy a reasonable person. OTOH, if I objected to the perfumed woman next to me and demanded she be expelled, I would not be reasonable and I shouldn't expect to be accommodated. So, it is fairly easy to determine what is reasonableness and that is the criteria used. The fact that I get very, very few objections when I vape in public is prima-facie evidence that a reasonable person does not find my vaping annoying or offensive.
I agree. When someone has the common courtesy to respect my right to do what I want as long as it poses no risk to them, or annoys a reasonable person, then I'll respect them and show them the same courtesy. But if they try to use the law to force me to submit to their unreasonable demands in order to spare their delicate sensibilities, they'll get no respect from me.Law,Right,Common courtesy and respect are all different. In this posters opinion, equally important.
Last edited: