Clones... Why?

[Psionic]

Its really up to the original mod makers to decide. If they are against their product being cloned then that is one thing. If they dont care then there should be no issues here. If the people at Atmomixani do not get patents then they can at least make a concerted effort to advertise that they are against the practice of others cloning their creations.

Getting a patent is a process and might not be worth the trouble considering that mechanical mods are evolving fairly quick. Zero voltage drop mods (sans battery and atty) are the rage now and many people are gravitating to 26650 mods. Nostalgia might be the only consideration when buying an older model while foregoing performance.

 

[MrKiltYou]

The only exception to what you said is that, I think the word counterfeit implies that you are trying to pass something off as the real deal (From Websters: Counterfeit: made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive). For the most part, sellers are usually upfront about their products being copies.
While I'm not crazy about the idea of clones, I did just order a copper/red Stingray clone. This will be my first mech and I wanted to stay in the $50 range. If there were more interesting options for non-clones in that price range I would have been interested, but besides Smoktech and a couple from Youde, there doesn't seem to be much. I do agree that the word "clone" is used because it sounds better than the other options.

While most sellers do tell purchasers that it is a clone. If the intent at some level wasn't to pass it off as an original why use all of the original's markings? To me at some level it is a counterfeit based on that.

 

[PapaGeno21]

I got my GP Paps LUX clone in yesterday. And comparing it to my real one, I should have just bought 9 of the clones for the same cash.

This clone was 16 shipped from fasttech. The quality is unreal. Most people would not know the difference.

 

[GreMos90]

I got my GP Paps LUX clone in yesterday. And comparing it to my real one, I should have just bought 9 of the clones for the same cash.

This clone was 16 shipped from fasttech. The quality is unreal. Most people would not know the difference.

That's good news I bought a few clones from fast tech

 

[Ed_C]

While most sellers do tell purchasers that it is a clone. If the intent at some level wasn't to pass it off as an original why use all of the original's markings? To me at some level it is a counterfeit based on that.

Yeah, that's a valid point and I was going to mention that the some owners might be trying to pass their mods off to their friends or people on the street (if any knew what it was that they were holding) as original, but still, it's not the same as passing a counterfeit bill or trying to sell a counterfeit Rolex as the real deal. If I could have found a non-clone that I liked, in my price range, I would have been all over it, but there's just not that many non-clones in the price range. You'd think as many people who don't like clones as there are, there would be a market for reasonably priced non-clone mods.

I suppose it is less of a risk to copy a already popular design, than to design one where you're not sure if it will be well received. Of course they could leave the logos off, at least.

 

[jrs99]

Well, someone has to support the original artists so that the scrubs will have all the cool counterfeits to buy.

I'm out of this discussion. This is a never ending fight. Those that buy counterfeits will just continue to use every excuse they can to justify buying stolen intelectual property. "It's the artist's fault for charging too much or making limited production!!!"
Nobody's sitting there belittling anyone because they can't afford authentics. They are belittling you for buying stolen IP.

 

[Completely Average]

Well, someone has to support the original artists so that the scrubs will have all the cool counterfeits to buy.

I'm out of this discussion. This is a never ending fight. Those that buy counterfeits will just continue to use every excuse they can to justify buying stolen intelectual property. "It's the artist's fault for charging too much or making limited production!!!"
Nobody's sitting there belittling anyone because they can't afford authentics. They are belittling you for buying stolen IP.

Aside from the etchings/engravings, what "ip" is being stolen? Mechanically they're no different from flashlights.

I would still buy the exact same mech I'm using now for the exact same price I paid even if it had no markings on it at all. Can you say the same? Are you really "supporting the artists" or just buying a showpiece to show off with, like buying an expensive watch?



Or let me put this another way...

Is Atmomixani paying Anne Stokes for the right to use her Death Angle image on the side of their Nemesis? If not, then why shouldn't a clone maker use the same image? Both are stealing the IP, right?

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

....and the beat goes on!


Original:

Clone:

......who cares!

Sorry your example fails. Actual replicas of this vehicle have been made.

1886 Benz Motorwagen Replica (Patent Motor Wagen) | Conceptcarz.com

Maurice

 

[blueGrassTubb]

Hookers are on the market. Drugs are on the market.
Does that make them right?

What makes them wrong besides other people feeling that their sense of what is right and wrong holds paramount? Just because you say those things are wrong, doesn't make them so.

 

[neutrontech]

They are belittling you for buying stolen IP.

Except for the fact many people believe that intellectual property belongs to all mankind. You obviously feel buying clones is wrong, and I respect your beliefs. Others feel they shouldn't be protected in the first place. They deserve the same respect for their beliefs.

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[Johnny Phatsaqs]

Aside from the etchings/engravings, what "ip" is being stolen? Mechanically they're no different from flashlights.

I would still buy the exact same mech I'm using now for the exact same price I paid even if it had no markings on it at all. Can you say the same? Are you really "supporting the artists" or just buying a showpiece to show off with, like buying an expensive watch?



Or let me put this another way...

Is Atmomixani paying Anne Stokes for the right to use her Death Angle image on the side of their Nemesis? If not, then why shouldn't a clone maker use the same image? Both are stealing the IP, right?

I'm interested to get an answer on this.

 

[blueGrassTubb]

I'm interested to get an answer on this.

Be careful what you ask for. A principle might get slaughtered in the process and you'll likely become dizzy from all the turning about.

Show me a piece of art and I'll show you an artist that stole so-called "intellectual property" (as if someone could STEAL FROM YOUR BRAIN).

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

Aside from the etchings/engravings, what "ip" is being stolen? Mechanically they're no different from flashlights.

I would still buy the exact same mech I'm using now for the exact same price I paid even if it had no markings on it at all. Can you say the same? Are you really "supporting the artists" or just buying a showpiece to show off with, like buying an expensive watch?



Or let me put this another way...

Is Atmomixani paying Anne Stokes for the right to use her Death Angle image on the side of their Nemesis? If not, then why shouldn't a clone maker use the same image? Both are stealing the IP, right?

How about this, you fail too.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...36-new-projects-atmomixani-3.html#post9152113

As for intellectual property, there is the airflow control, the switch design, and the variety of tubes that combine to hold an assortment of battery sizes and fuze or kick.

Maurice

 

[bsoplinger]

How about this, you fail too.

So the original design was inspired by a statue that stole the IP of the artist and you willingly point to that to support your argument? Talk about completely clueless!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2

 

[Johnny Phatsaqs]

I will say this. I love my hcigar Nemmy clone so much, I would by a real one if it were readily available.

 

[roflwaffles]

Doesn't that just mean JD Tech should be paying Atmomixani since a Stingray is basically a super-Nemesis with a different logo and upgrades to their switch and 510 design?

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

You can't copyright or own imagery of Nemesis beyond what is actually produced (the statue, the painting, the logo), that's like saying a picture of Christ can't be made by anyone but whomever first depicted him. It doesn't work that way.

The logo is inspired by, not a copy of the statue. There is a difference. At times the line is admittedly thin, thin enough that I wouldn't want to touch it.

This is close, close enough to where I wouldn't have used it if it were my design. But I think it would not be problematic in a court anywhere in the world. Mainly because it is not a copy of a statue. Sometimes the devil is in the details and not the broader scope of things.

At times we must qualify things, killing is bad, except when ... a whole list of situations exist where it would be deemed good, or at least justified, and often enough just not truly bad.

If you want to paint me as a hypocrite you might do better attacking my penchant for drawing churches, I'm not in the least bit religious and I'm knowingly illustrating artwork someone else thought of. I both benefit from this in terms of enjoyment of the imagery and in times well in the past have made some money at it, though not now.

Maurice

 

[Johnny Phatsaqs]

So basically, we have found a line of hypocrisy that Maurice is comfortable with. His hypocrisy is high-brow and nuanced while mine is simplistic and scummy. Got it.

 

[Maurice Pudlo]

https://graphicartistsguild.org/tools_resources/beware-the-right-of-publicity

Here you go, use this as an argument against the Nemesis Logo. It would seem that if Atmomixani got a release all is well in the world, or maybe no such law exists in Greece.

I'm some 25 years past the days I sold my art, and what I do now is not for public display. We all grow up and get a bit of maturity with age. Profiting off of others is something I left behind because it did not sit well with me.

If my drawing of churches makes me a hypocrite in your eyes or others then please enjoy your personal win and know that it does bother me to some extent.

In any case, I still feel clones are bad, they are as near identical copies as is possible, not graphic representations, not inspired by, nor even just close to the originals, they are identical replicas. To me that remains wrong.

Maurice

 

[Johnny Phatsaqs]

But my clones aren't for public consumption.