Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

7sixtwo

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That FDA announcement was the most disgusting piece of propaganda I've read in quite some time.

Our petitions will fall on willfully deaf ears. That's reality.

So, I just need clarification; do I have a couple years or only a single month to stock up on supplies?
 

WharfRat1976

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Negativity serves no purpose here. It ain't over until the fat lady sings. There are people working 24/7 to try to get this overturned through Congress, or, at the very least, persuade them to make concessions. It definitely is NOT over.
Okay.
 

aubergine

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I've seen several news segments on TV about this today. The only aspect any of them mentioned was that it will be illegal to sell vaping gear to anyone under 18, which was already illegal in a large majority of States. My guess is it will fade from the general public consciousness completely by tomorrow, with hardly anyone outside of the vaping community having picked up on what actually happened. I suspect that right now a large percentage of vapers have no idea what just happened.
Yup. It's a slippery crew. If there's one thing they're good at, it's misrepresentation. Ever maddening.
 
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Kent C

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Can someone recap what this means in terms of process for the FDA- i.e. is this the new way of things for sure, or is this what they are going to rule on? (could still be changed etc.)

I'm not quite sure what deeming means at the end of the day.

One, perhaps the only one hopeful move is the Appropriations Bill. It has a change in the grandfather date to present time (or at the signing of the bill). But:

- It needs to pass the whole House - probably not a problem;
- It has to be included in the Senate Appropriations committee bill - write to the Senators in that committee
- It has to be voted on in the full Senate - write to your Senators to include something like the Cole amendment to change the grandfather date.
- If there are differences between the House and Senate bills, there will be a joint committee to work them out.
- The joint bill would then have to pass both Houses
- The president would have to sign the bill into law
- If the President vetoes the bill - it would take 2/3s of both Chambers to override the veto. Probably not a problem in the House, but with the anti-vaping Dems in the Senate and not as large of a majority of Republicans, it is not likely to vote for an override of the veto.

If the grandfather date is not changed in this Congress with this President, then it is very likely to become an issue for the next Congress and President. And likely that Cole or others will bring up the issue again - esp. if we keep writing them to do so.
 

Katmar

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    That FDA announcement was the most disgusting piece of propaganda I've read in quite some time.

    Our petitions will fall on willfully deaf ears. That's reality.

    So, I just need clarification; do I have a couple years or only a single month to stock up on supplies?

    You have a couple of years. It's only anything new from here on that falls under the 90 day rule, I believe.
     
    I can't say I'm surprised by the reaction here, but I am a little bit disappointed.

    On the one hand, there are some obvious issues with the regulations that have been raised. I also understand why small businesses who have invested in this technology are very worried about their future. What I don't get, though, is the view that seems to hold that everything is fine as it is and that no regulations are needed whatsoever.

    As someone who uses these products on a daily basis, I want to know what is in them. I want producers to be held to certain standards that ensure that they are as safe as possible. This seems obvious, but it's not the case right now, and I'm really, really not ok with that.

    (Also, I've seen at least one person declare that these regulations are "unconstitutional." I'm not really sure where that comes from, since the Constitution clearly empowers the federal government to regulate interstate commerce.)
     

    Katmar

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    One, perhaps the only one hopeful move is the Appropriations Bill. It has a change in the grandfather date to present time (or at the signing of the bill). But:

    - It needs to pass the whole House - probably not a problem;
    - It has to be included in the Senate Appropriations committee bill - write to the Senators in that committee
    - It has to be voted on in the full Senate - write to your Senators to include something like the Cole amendment to change the grandfather date.
    - If there are differences between the House and Senate bills, there will be a joint committee to work them out.
    - The joint bill would then have to pass both Houses
    - The president would have to sign the bill into law
    - If the President vetoes the bill - it would take 2/3s of both Chambers to override the veto. Probably not a problem in the House, but with the anti-vaping Dems in the Senate and not as large of a majority of Republicans, it is not likely to vote for an override of the veto.

    If the grandfather date is not changed in this Congress with this President, then it is very likely to become an issue for the next Congress and President. And likely that Cole or others will bring up the issue again - esp. if we keep writing them to do so.

    @WharfRat1976 THIS^^^^^^ is a HUGE deal, if we can pull it off and get this bill acted upon. Been sitting for a year, but people are pushing it and pushing hard. Call your representative and tell them to support HR2058. EVERYONE should do this. When I called, they were very responsive to my concerns. PLEASE, push your representatives. It's easy and only requires a few minutes of your time.
     

    Atchafalaya

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    I see you are a WTA person as I was. That is what got me over the ciggies TOTALLY. I guess Aroma is totally screwed. Once again the middle class gets the big screw!
    I'm a WTA person too. :( Aroma is where I get my juice. So upset right now. :(
     

    7sixtwo

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    I doubt the FDA is loaded with Liberals. As Rayo said above ... $$$

    I would like to see the roll call list in House and Senate and see who voted this in. By name. As far as I know, the FDA does not make it's own laws.

    You don't understand how out of control federal bureaucracy is. All Congress did was give the FDA authority over tobacco, (which was obviously a huge mistake, and inappropriate). Once that was done, the FDA did indeed make these regulations themselves, which have the force of law. None of our representatives voted on this tyranny, the FDA just "deemed" it into existence. Those directly responsible are unaccountable to voters. They were appointed, not elected.

    The Founders are spinning in their graves, but of course they have been for decades now.
     
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    Kent C

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    I doubt the FDA is loaded with Liberals. As Rayo said above ... $$$

    I would like to see the roll call list in House and Senate and see who voted this in. By name. As far as I know, the FDA does not make it's own laws.

    The 'law' that authorized this is the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act in 2009 with Dem majorities in both Houses. Here's the votes:

    Senate
    U.S. Senate: Roll Call Vote

    YEAs 79 - 57 Dem to 22 Rep
    NAYs 17 - only one Democrat - Hagan
    Not Voting 3

    House:
    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll335.xml

    Yeas 307 - 237 Dem to 70 Rep
    Nays 97 - 7 Dem to 70 Rep
    Not voting - 30
     
    Our customers can be assured that all VG and PG purchased from us is "Certified" to be 99.7% Kosher and Pure. I believe that makes the added cost worth it.

    How can they be assured of that? Because you say so? Is there any legal or practical obstacle that prevents you from falsely claiming this? And unless I'm an observant Jew (I'm not), why would I care if your VG is kosher?
     

    2coils

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    This is like sending a petition to the mob boss who put the hit out on you :facepalm:

    But yeah, what the heck.... go for it. :lol:
    Extremely well said! And we all know how the previous pleas to our mob bosses have gone!! Lawsuits and Congress are our only hope!
     

    sos2001

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    I can't say I'm surprised by the reaction here, but I am a little bit disappointed.

    On the one hand, there are some obvious issues with the regulations that have been raised. I also understand why small businesses who have invested in this technology are very worried about their future. What I don't get, though, is the view that seems to hold that everything is fine as it is and that no regulations are needed whatsoever.

    As someone who uses these products on a daily basis, I want to know what is in them. I want producers to be held to certain standards that ensure that they are as safe as possible. This seems obvious, but it's not the case right now, and I'm really, really not ok with that.

    (Also, I've seen at least one person declare that these regulations are "unconstitutional." I'm not really sure where that comes from, since the Constitution clearly empowers the federal government to regulate interstate commerce.)


    I would have zero problem with regulations concerning sanitary conditions in making juice or safety standards for hardware, batteries, etc. This entire situation was pushed by Big Tobacco and Pharma.

    States have issued bonds against future $$$ from the Tobacco Settlement and those dollars are shrinking and those bonds will eventually come due.

    As far as the Commerce Clause...many constitutional scholars have said that it's the most .......ized words in the Constitution.

    In short, its all about the strongest lobby groups and $$$$. The "children" are just useful idiots.
     

    Highwayman1224

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    They can't regulate vg or pg, or kanthal or stainless steel or flavorings. Just cut out nicotine & you'll be able to vape forever without worrying about any of this.
    Exactly!! This is like Prohibition all over again! People didn't stop drinking because of Prohibition, they just went to the bootlegger for their alcohol instead of the liquor store. We need bootlegger vape products!!!
     
    I would have zero problem with regulations concerning sanitary conditions in making juice or safety standards for hardware, batteries, etc. This entire situation was pushed by Big Tobacco and Pharma.

    Good, then-- I think we agree. Just to clarify: I'm not saying that these regulations are necessarily a good thing. I'm just frustrated that so many people seem to think that the status quo is even remotely acceptable.
     

    evan le'garde

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    I am one of those vendors that will charge you more for VG than you pay in a store but when you purchase that cheap VG in a store what are you inhaling in to your lungs? Our customers can be assured that all VG and PG purchased from us is "Certified" to be 99.7% Kosher and Pure. I believe that makes the added cost worth it.


    Here's some VG from "Lubrisolve" on ebay. 99.8% pure (Min.)
    5 litres - £16.99
    5 Litre Vegetable Glycerine EP USP Food Cosmetic Grade | eBay

    In contrast :

    Here's a typical UK e cig vendor.
    100ml VG - £2.99
    100 ml Propylene Glycol / Vegetable Glycerine
     

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