Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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, grain of
That would have been the easy common sense route that you, I and everyone else here would have followed. The template was there for us to implement. But no, we have to totally reinvent the Flintstones wheel.
For gov, BT and pharma this isn't about vaping. It is IMO all about "control" and "money". And who owns and controls both.
It's always about the money. My pops, probably like many folks parents, used to tell me "follow the money".
Okay so now you understand the prescription drug industry. The argument is made that the "initial new product" has to be "so expensive" because it has to be "rigorously tested" for safety at the expense of the drug company SO THEY get to bill YOU and your insurance the insane amounts of money it will take to like, "make a profit." This is all true.
When a medication goes generic, you heave a sigh of relief until/unless you are lucky/unlucky enough to realize a generic is NOT held to the same standard. It is a CLONE and not always a Good or even Great Clone: plus or minus 20$% of the drug? (Meaning up to 40% VARIABILITY that is INSANE.) Filler? FDA does NOT care. Delivery system over time: If the original over time delivery system is still patented, which may be MOST OF WHY IT WORKS, ooh, FDA says eh, use WHATEVER you want as long as it is a "delivery system" so what should be dumped over 12 hours is dumped over 6. Lets not forget ALLERGIES to weird filler systems and whatnot.
Which is why you can buy anything made before deeming only no one is making or buying it in mass quantity because it is not that good.
The FDA is treating a sin product like a medical aid, which should be FINE to kill it off because I'm not sure there is a single vaping company with the resources of a drug development manufacturer company and a lot of them fail.
The government does not want to TAX vaping it wants to kill it. Otherwise, the government would be pitching a giant meltdown about nicotine gum etc.
The government KNOWS that gum, lozenges and patches do NOT work, over the long term. It knows DARN well VAPING does.
That is why it was SENT to the FDA, which can choose to arbitrarily (pretty much) decide to approve a drug or not. Really. That is exactly how it works.
This FDA thing has made me super uneasy from the start-- an equivalent sin tax would have been SO much cheaper.
Anna
When a medication goes generic, you heave a sigh of relief until/unless you are lucky/unlucky enough to realize a generic is NOT held to the same standard. It is a CLONE and not always a Good or even Great Clone: plus or minus 20$% of the drug? (Meaning up to 40% VARIABILITY that is INSANE.) Filler? FDA does NOT care. Delivery system over time: If the original over time delivery system is still patented, which may be MOST OF WHY IT WORKS, ooh, FDA says eh, use WHATEVER you want as long as it is a "delivery system" so what should be dumped over 12 hours is dumped over 6. Lets not forget ALLERGIES to weird filler systems and whatnot.
Which is why you can buy anything made before deeming only no one is making or buying it in mass quantity because it is not that good.
The FDA is treating a sin product like a medical aid, which should be FINE to kill it off because I'm not sure there is a single vaping company with the resources of a drug development manufacturer company and a lot of them fail.
The government does not want to TAX vaping it wants to kill it. Otherwise, the government would be pitching a giant meltdown about nicotine gum etc.
The government KNOWS that gum, lozenges and patches do NOT work, over the long term. It knows DARN well VAPING does.
That is why it was SENT to the FDA, which can choose to arbitrarily (pretty much) decide to approve a drug or not. Really. That is exactly how it works.
This FDA thing has made me super uneasy from the start-- an equivalent sin tax would have been SO much cheaper.
Anna
I just got a letter from Oasis Vape who submitted their PMTAs for all of their juices and they said in part...
Yes I figured as much. The FDA plans to use the PMTA to kill off the vape market. And then Philip Morris swoops in with their IQOS (already PMTA approved) claiming they are safer than cigarettes for the win.
While our applications have been submitted, we are not in the clear just yet. Remember, these applications are extremely cumbersome and according to the FDA should clear almost 98% of the vape market (FDA intends on handing this market to Big Tobacco Corporations when this is all said and done).
Yes I figured as much. The FDA plans to use the PMTA to kill off the vape market. And then Philip Morris swoops in with their IQOS (already PMTA approved) claiming they are safer than cigarettes for the win.
I just got a letter from Oasis Vape who submitted their PMTAs for all of their juices and they said in part...
While our applications have been submitted, we are not in the clear just yet. Remember, these applications are extremely cumbersome and according to the FDA should clear almost 98% of the vape market (FDA intends on handing this market to Big Tobacco Corporations when this is all said and done).
Yes I figured as much. The FDA plans to use the PMTA to kill off the vape market. And then Philip Morris swoops in with their IQOS (already PMTA approved) claiming they are safer than cigarettes for the win.
They are safer than cigarettes as there is no combustion but of course that's not why PM cares, they get to sell you a pack of cigarettes (heatsticks) that are 1/3 the size and can and do charge more for them. My bet is they may contain more nicotine being the only difference.
Tripling the profit of the exact same tobacco instantly.
It's sickening.
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Children don't have that much power, actually. Well, at home, they have the amount of power you allot them. But, I mean societally? If your kid commits a crime YOU are responsible (yeah, still bitter/amused about having to go to drug court for the kid when he was about 16, fines, etc.) And that was for underage DRINKING not even in a vehicle.
Children tend to be used as pawns a lot by the government for rationales for things. I guarantee more kids were harmed by tide pods than vaping but I could still buy 10K tide pods AT ONCE without even being carded.
Let's keep the blame and hate where it belongs: at the government.
Anna
Children tend to be used as pawns a lot by the government for rationales for things. I guarantee more kids were harmed by tide pods than vaping but I could still buy 10K tide pods AT ONCE without even being carded.
Let's keep the blame and hate where it belongs: at the government.
Anna
I'm pretty much past blaming the gov't. I blame the voters who keep re-electing them. My confidence in my fellow American keeps hitting new lows.
I will say my travels across the country caused me grief and outrage. ESPECIALLY the blue states. Tucson (and much of AZ) are like that. People are mean. People are not friendly. People want to tell everyone ELSE what to do, like little Hitlers. I'm not kidding. I mean.... I hated Tucson. One time I forgot my mask in a gas station and some old man (who was masked, he was fine) started screaming across the gas station, "Get out and get your mask young lady.;" I am afraid I had my "I lost it COVID moment" and began screaming back, "Where is your A
le sign, sir? I forgot and if you had asked politely I would have gone and gotten it. NOW I will NOT do so until you go get YOUR sign, the one that says, "I am a giant ale."
It was kinda fun because everyone working was a kid and they were ah, having trouble maintaining their composure. I don't MIND masks (well, l hate them and believe the government may be trying to kill off excess healthcare workers because you cannot breathe in them things and I always feel like I have mild hypoxia) but a polite request is mostly what is needed.
I left fast though he was the type of guy who would call 911 or something.
Also, pregnant KY teen and her mommy? I am fairly certain they do not vote. It still made me sit and cry about the state of our country and how uneducated they are for about 40 minutes. Also I firmly believe VOTE. Even if it's for Santa Claus if you do not claim your vote it is a vote for the democrats. I say this because when I looked online to see what I had to do to register to vote and if I could do it online, well, it said I was ALREADY registered to vote, and I was NOT. I was clearly identified as a registered alien but apparently I had been "Registered" for like 7 years. But when I tried to retrieve the record, I could not.
Fishy.
Anna
le sign, sir? I forgot and if you had asked politely I would have gone and gotten it. NOW I will NOT do so until you go get YOUR sign, the one that says, "I am a giant ale."It was kinda fun because everyone working was a kid and they were ah, having trouble maintaining their composure. I don't MIND masks (well, l hate them and believe the government may be trying to kill off excess healthcare workers because you cannot breathe in them things and I always feel like I have mild hypoxia) but a polite request is mostly what is needed.
I left fast though he was the type of guy who would call 911 or something.
Also, pregnant KY teen and her mommy? I am fairly certain they do not vote. It still made me sit and cry about the state of our country and how uneducated they are for about 40 minutes. Also I firmly believe VOTE. Even if it's for Santa Claus if you do not claim your vote it is a vote for the democrats. I say this because when I looked online to see what I had to do to register to vote and if I could do it online, well, it said I was ALREADY registered to vote, and I was NOT. I was clearly identified as a registered alien but apparently I had been "Registered" for like 7 years. But when I tried to retrieve the record, I could not.
Fishy.
Anna
I believe this will explain how expensive this is. The process and costs are sickening.
Thanks for posting this. Very illuminating.
1. WRT to post-2016 vaping products and their legal status--per Dimitri, they can't be sold after Sept. 9th without approval from the FDA. PMTAs can be filed at any time, but the products still can't be sold in the US. Pre-2016 products can remain on the market if a PMTA has been submitted.
2. The bill makes no provisions that ban the import of the banned items for personal consumption, only for "sale or distribution." (Division A Title II Section 201 [14]). This is somewhat surprising to me. TBD?
3. Please support Innokin, Phil and Dimitri if you can. They are fighting for us. I already own a Zenith, 3 Zlides, a bunch of Z coils, and an Ares 2 tank. About to buy a Sceptre.
The problem doesn't stem from the voting booth. The problem stems fro the fact that humans produce the type of people who become poor candidates who are not worth voting for.
How are we supposed to vote for decent people if we can't produce them, and when we do, they don't run for office?
I guess the problem is also the system - it discourages decent people and encourages those who are less-than-decent.
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it's always about the money. My pops, probably like many folks parents, used to tell me "follow the money".
Sure it is. But in this case, it's also about good intentions and unintended consequences. And stupidity of our legislators who like to pass bills before even knowing what's in them. Nancy Pelosi famously uttered this startling statement (about the healthcare bill): "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it."
Tobacco Control Act (2009) signed by President Obama grandfathers the deadliest form of tobacco (cigarettes, cigars, loose tobacco), forever making it available to US consumers without any restrictions (just age, warning labels and no advertising), while pretty much preventing all forms of Tobacco Harm Reduction products to even enter the US market.
Big win for Big Tobacco and for legislative idiocy.
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Is it any wonder why Sen. Mike Enzi (R-Wyo.) said this about it...
"If this bill is good for big tobacco, how can it be good for public health? The fact is, it can't. This bill is nothing more than a 'Marlboro Protection Act,' written to keep Philip Morris at the top of the tobacco market."
Senate Panel OKs FDA Regulation Of Tobacco
A Shame one of these wasn't done in Every Major City, and Small Towns also, across the Country.
While I agree with the sentiment, I also understand that this is the most unfortunate time to organize rallies of any kind--for so many reasons. I'm just grateful to those who were brave enough and committed enough to attend the DC rally.
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