Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[CMD-Ky]

Perhaps comparing the Text of Stand-Alone Bills would yield a Clue?

With her ties to China that is somewhat surprising.

 

[zoiDman]

With her ties to China that is somewhat surprising.

Trust Me. I'm No Fan-Boy of Feinstein. Far From It. And have Followed her Crooked Career since 1978 when she was the President of the SF Board.

SB 1253 was going to happen. And to be Honest, I'm surprised it Didn't Happen sooner.

The entire "Let's Blame e-Cigarettes and People wanting a Safer Alternative to Smoking for those who get Sick Puffing on Illegal Street Carts to get High" thing Doomed the uneasy marriage of "vaping" and the USPS.

 

[englishmick]

Perhaps comparing the Text of Stand-Alone Bills would yield a Clue?

All that stuff at the end about research was interesting. Some strange bits mixed in. Relationship between vaping patterns and getting into cars with drunk drivers? We don't need research to know that kids wouldn't do stupid .... if they weren't vaping.

It would make more sense to me to do the research first though, rather than close the industry down then look into whether it was dangerous. You wouldn't even be able to do all that research into usage rates and associations and consequences and so forth if nobody was vaping.

 

[zoiDman]

All that stuff at the end about research was interesting. ...

That was Added to give the Bill some Semblance of being more than just an Arbitrary USPS Ban. And to Attract those who saw Potential Blowback from a Pure "Ban" Bill.

Let's plug-in some about Studies or Trend Tracking and make it seem like we are Making an Attempt to get our Arms around the Problem. And or to Make the "Problem" actually seem like a Problem.

 

[Kent C]

With changes to tobacco law since 2008 and boundless judicial deference to administrative agency discretion we served as the excellent target test-bed for abuse and control by the federal bureaucratic establishment.

The 'administrative state' has taken over every function of the Constitutional Gov't.

1. Making Laws - Congress' function by elected representatives
2. Executing Laws - Presidential function - also elected
3. Judging Laws - Judicial function - appointed and and confirmed by the elected

Now Congress writes open-ended, ambiguous laws. The administrative state makes 'rules' that are "based" on their interpretation of the laws. If someone breaks a rule, it's enforced by the administrative state, and if challenged, judged by the administrative state by unelected bureaucrats.

If you want the 'timeline' on how this came to be, here's a good source:

Course - Congress: How It Worked and Why It Doesn’t | Hillsdale College Online Courses

...also free to enroll.

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

sense

 

[MacTechVpr]

The 'administrative state' has taken over every function of the Constitutional Gov't.

1. Making Laws - Congress' function by elected representatives
2. Executing Laws - Presidential function - also elected
3. Judging Laws - Judicial function - appointed and and confirmed by the elected

Now Congress writes open-ended, ambiguous laws. The administrative state makes 'rules' that are "based" on their interpretation of the laws. If someone breaks a rule, it's enforced by the administrative state, and if challenged, judged by the administrative state by unelected bureaucrats.

If you want the 'timeline' on how this came to be, here's a good source:

Course - Congress: How It Worked and Why It Doesn’t | Hillsdale College Online Courses

...also free to enroll.

Excellent. Thanks!

Good luck.

 

[Aerodan]

Nuh uh, the cartoon says a bill becomes a law like this!

 

[BNEAT]

Nuh uh, the cartoon says a bill becomes a law like this!

Why do I remember that having something to do with the Fat Albert show?

 

[MLEJ]

Why can't someone make some 0% vape juice, put in a drop of cbd and sell it as cbd vape? We could add our own nik if desired. Just a thought.

0% vape juice & CBD vape juice are included in the ban.

“electronic nicotine delivery system...means any electronic device that, through an aerosolized solution, delivers nicotine, flavor, or any other substance to the user inhaling from the device...”

PG and VG are readily available, and always will be.

PG & VG are included in the ban. Whether the ban will be enforced against them, immediately or ever, is a question.

 

[mikepetro]

PG and VG are readily available, and always will be.

PG & VG are included in the ban. Whether the ban will be enforced against them, immediately or ever, is a question.

Please show me where a ban prohibiting generic VG/PG is written into a Law/Bill/Regulation etc..

It is my understanding that PG/VG are only regulated if they are marketed as a vape product. The twisted logic of the Tobacco Deeming says anything associated with vaping is a tobacco product and therefor subject to regulation.

However my wife makes many "potions" like hand cream, face cream, shampoos, and other beauty products that use PG and/or VG. Heck, most water based "personal lubricants" are PG/VG based. (Alas they arent even using lube to shove this up our keisters) I have always bought my PG/VG from sources that cater to DIY soaps/cosmetics/Lotions etc.. Mainly because it is a lot cheaper than the vape branded stuff. To my knowledge these non-vape sources are not being legally restricted in any way (except for not mentioning vape).

Batteries are a similar situation. Clouds-R-Us batteries marketed for vaping are regulated, but the same generic 18650 or Lithium Polymer batteries marketed for flashlights, power tools, automotive jump starters, etc.. are not.

The only thing they can "effectively" regulate is nic itself.

 

[Aerodan]

It would be really great if the name "vaping" just changed in the entire industry to "CommonSense". The latest ban on CommonSense passed the senate...

I'm CommonSensing some Watermelon Menthol this morning.

AD

 

[UncLeJunkLe]

TITLE VI—PREVENTING ONLINE
4SALES OF E-CIGARETTES TO
5CHILDREN
6SEC. 601. SHORT TITLE.
7This title may be cited as the ‘‘Preventing Online
8Sales of E-Cigarettes to Children Act’’.
9SEC. 602. AMENDMENTS TO THE JENKINS ACT.
10(a) INGENERAL.—The Act entitled ‘‘An Act to assist
11States in collecting sales and use taxes on cigarettes’’, ap-12proved October 19, 1949 (commonly known as the ‘‘Jen-13kins Act’’) (15 U.S.C. 375 et seq.), is amended— 14(1) in section 1 (15 U.S.C. 375)— 15(A) in paragraph (2)(A)(ii)— 16(i) by striking ‘‘includes roll-your-own 17tobacco’’ and inserting the following: ‘‘in-18cludes— 19‘‘(I) roll-your-own tobacco’’; 20(ii) in subclause (I), as so designated, 21by striking the period at the end and in-22serting ‘‘; and’’; and 23(iii) by adding at the end the fol-24lowing: 25December 21, 2020 (7:54 a.m.)
2670 U:\2021OMNI\14OMNI\DivO-FF.xml SEN. APPRO. ‘‘(II) an electronic nicotine deliv-1ery system.’’; 2(B) by redesignating paragraphs (7) 3through (14) as paragraphs (8) through (15), 4respectively; and 5(C) by inserting after paragraph (6) the 6following: 7‘‘(7) ELECTRONIC NICOTINE DELIVERY SYS-8TEM.—The term ‘electronic nicotine delivery sys-9tem’— 10‘‘(A) means any electronic device that, 11through an aerosolized solution, delivers nico-12tine, flavor, or any other substance to the user 13inhaling from the device; 14‘‘(B) includes— 15‘‘(i) an e-cigarette; 16‘‘(ii) an e-hookah; 17‘‘(iii) an e-cigar; 18‘‘(iv) a vape pen; 19‘‘(v) an advanced refillable personal 20vaporizer; 21‘‘(vi) an electronic pipe; and 22‘‘(vii) any component, liquid, part, or 23accessory of a device described in subpara-24graph (A), without regard to whether the 25December 21, 2020 (7:54 a.m.)2671 U:\2021OMNI\14OMNI\DivO-FF.xml SEN. APPRO. component, liquid, part, or accessory is 1sold separately from the device; and 2‘‘(C) does not include a product that is— 3‘‘(i) approved by the Food and Drug 4Administration for— 5‘‘(I) sale as a tobacco cessation 6product; or 7‘‘(II) any other therapeutic pur-8pose; and 9‘‘(ii) marketed and sold solely for a 10purpose described in clause (i).’’; and 11(2) in section 2A(b)(1) (15 U.S.C. 376a(b)(1)), 12by inserting ‘‘NICOTINE/’’ after 13‘‘CIGARETTES/’’. 14(b) EFFECTIVEDATE.—This section, and the amend-15ments made by this section, shall take effect on the date 16that is 90 days after the date of enactment of this Act. 17(c) RULE OFCONSTRUCTION.—Nothing in this sec-18tion, or an amendment made by this section, may be con-19strued to affect or otherwise alter any provision of the 20Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 301 21et seq.), including its implementing regulations. 22December 21, 2020 (7:54 a.m.)2672 U:\2021OMNI\14OMNI\DivO-FF.xml SEN. APPRO. SEC. 603. NONMAILABILITY OF ELECTRONIC NICOTINE DE-1LIVERY SYSTEMS. 2(a) REGULATIONS.—Not later than 120 days after 3the date of enactment of this Act, the United States Postal 4Service shall promulgate regulations to clarify the applica-5bility of the prohibition on mailing of cigarettes under sec-6tion 1716E of title 18, United States Code, to electronic 7nicotine delivery systems, in accordance with the amend-8ment to the definition of ‘‘cigarette’’ made by section 602. 9(b) EFFECTIVEDATE.—The prohibition on mailing 10of cigarettes under section 1716E of title 18, United 11States Code, shall apply to electronic nicotine delivery sys-12tems on and after the date on which the United States 13Postal Service promulgates regulations under subsection 14(a) of this section.

PG & VG are included in the ban. Whether the ban will be enforced against them, immediately or ever, is a question.

I read Title VI if the bill (comprehension is an entirely different matter).
I can see how one could deduce that VG and PG, or any other substance used in eliquid, could be affected here.

ELECTRONIC NICOTINE DELIVERY SYSTEM.—The term ‘electronic nicotine delivery system’—

‘‘(A) means any electronic device that, through an aerosolized solution, delivers nicotine, flavor, or any other substance to the user inhaling from the device​

But then you have this...

‘‘(C) does not include a product that is—

‘‘(i) approved by the Food and Drug Administration for—

‘‘(I) sale as a tobacco cessation product; or
‘‘(II) any other therapeutic purpose; and​

‘‘(ii) marketed and sold solely for a purpose described in clause (i).’’​

At any rate, the problem comes with enforcement when buying PG, VG and even flavoring from non-vape suppliers as these substances have long been sold for many purposes by non-vape retailers under none-vape brands FDA-approved for (I) and (II) above or not.

Anyhow, I have to go untangle my brain now...

 

[somdcomputerguy]

It would be really great if the name "vaping" just changed in the entire industry to "CommonSense". The latest ban on CommonSense passed the senate...

I'm CommonSensing some Watermelon Menthol this morning.

My CommonSense usually has no flavor, or sometimes just a bit..

Aha, another 'renamed saying': "Cents saved are Cents earned"!

 

[mikepetro]

Bottom line is they created an environment where "marketing" anything to the vape market is regulated. This includes Nic, VG/PG, batteries, cotton, glass, rayon, food flavorings, SS mesh, wire, metal, screws, even software.

As long as it isnt marketed as vape related, and it has another reasonable end-use, they cant touch it with the Deeming or e-cig regs.

 

[BillW50]

And if things get really bad, we still got our local vape dealer.

 

[Train2]

And if things get really bad, we still got our local vape dealer.

View attachment 924709

 

[newyork13]

I'd like to know who slipped that USPS shipping ban in the covid bill.

The beauty (or ugliness, depending on your perspective) is that you may never know.
There is no good and democratic reason for our wondrous representatives to add irrelevant items to spending (or other) bills. Each bill/subject should stand on its own and its originator and votes should be public record.
Not to mention that they get 2 hours to read a 5000 page piece of sh*t before they have to vote.
This is a sad joke. It's time for a change.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

Bottom line is they created an environment where "marketing" anything to the vape market is regulated. This includes Nic, VG/PG, batteries, cotton, glass, rayon, food flavorings, SS mesh, wire, metal, screws, even software.

Kinda the same thing in the boating industry. If anything, from window cleaner to motor oil, has 'Marine' on its' label, it's more expensive. I'm sure there are more apples in this cart..

 

[Bronze]

The beauty (or ugliness, depending on your perspective) is that you may never know.
There is no good and democratic reason for our wondrous representatives to add irrelevant items to spending (or other) bills. Each bill/subject should stand on its own and its originator and votes should be public record.
Not to mention that they get 2 hours to read a 5000 page piece of sh*t before they have to vote.
This is a sad joke. It's time for a change.

I have no illusions of ever finding out who put the usps ban in the bill. These cowardly pols dog pile these bills for that exact reason.