Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[salemgold]

Leaving this here for any vendors reading that may be interested.

vape & The FDA - VTA Conference June 7-8, 2016.

Vape & The FDA - VTA Conference June 7-8, 2016.pdf

 

[Bob Chill]

Skoony, the problem lies with chargebacks in the pawn industry. Used goods are a problem. No manufacturer warranty or anything else. They aren't selling covered goods.

vape stuff is mostly custom with no "real" warranties. There is no manufacturer backing like most consumer goods. Custom car mod stuff has similar problems with card processing.

The only point I'm trying to make is that with my career background, it's completely unsurprising that the vape business has issues with electronic payment processing.

 

[StormFinch]

Actually that isn't what it says. It says it is made in the same labs as J&J.

Which means my reading comprehension today is completely borked, and the reason I've pretty much stepped away from the keyboard.

 

[zoiDman]

How will manufacturers be able to show what role the flavors in THEIR products play in initiation by kids and initiation by anyone who’s never used the product?

...

It's Simple. Applicants will just do a Study.

With all the Junk Science spewers/makers out there, it Shouldn't be to hard to find a Titled Researcher who needs a New Boat or a Re-Model on their House. And is Willing to sign His/Her name to a Flavor Study.

Remember, All this isn't about Children or Health or whether or Not someone can Stop Smoking.

 

[The Ocelot]

Edit: Foget my prior post. It's the Senate we should be targeting.

Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies | United States Senate Committee on Appropriations

 

[skoony]

Skoony, the problem lies with chargebacks in the pawn industry. Used goods are a problem. No manufacturer warranty or anything else. They aren't selling covered goods.

Vape stuff is mostly custom with no "real" warranties. There is no manufacturer backing like most consumer goods. Custom car mod stuff has similar problems with card processing.

The only point I'm trying to make is that with my career background, it's completely unsurprising that the vape business has issues with electronic payment processing.

There are no charge backs. All sales are as is.
In this state anyway. No warranty issues.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Never tried snus, but nicotine gum and chewing tobacco give me horrible hiccups.

Nic gum puts me in the hospital (asphyxiation). Good luck.

 

[The Ocelot]

Nothing will stop this FDA Train Wreck within the next 3 years ... here's where I am holding onto hope ... I am going to become a Black Market ... however, not one that is in it for money.

I am going to be part of a BM that proves Vaping is the Miracle the World has been waiting for ... I posted before how this Hijacking of Vaping to replace lost taxes will be exposed ...

well, I've been planning for this exact FDA situation for a long time ... when the hammer drops and only cigalikes are allowed, I am going to get others to help me (people with nic and mods ... aka suppliers).

Within 5 years ... we will have doctors on our side ... it will have been 15 years from the start.

Mark my words ... They are not going to find Vaping as the killer or annoyance they're trying to make it out to be.

Science will prevail on this ... I may not be able to do this alone with 30 setups (the study starts with how to build your coil) ... I will recruit others to join me.

I am going to be part of this Black Market that exposes the cover up on Vaping.

There's too much Nicotine and quality gear for this not to get jammed straight down the throats of the FDA


Sent via iPhone

I prefer the term Underground Railroad.

 

[StormFinch]

Remember, All this isn't about Children or Health or whether or Not someone can Stop Smoking.

I'm trying to contact the members of the Apportion committee, but it won't let me. Even the form to contact all of them at once redirects to contacting my representative, who isn't on it. Grrr.

If you one live in the states that has a member on it, please considered contacting them regarding Agriculture Appropriations Bill for 2017.

Information on House Subcommittee on Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies

Guaranteed 1/4 on the dem side. Bishop is of course one of the sponsors.

 

[rothenbj]

Nic gum puts me in the hospital (asphyxiation). Good luck.

You get strong enough snus and you'll get niccups also.

 

[SpiritBear]

Already on their radar, at least for adding caffeine to drinks:

FDA to Investigate Added Caffeine

It has been reported that Starbucks has much more caffeine than the "normal" coffee we used to drink, combined with much larger cup sizes.

So, from the "give-an-inch-and-take-a-mile" file, circa 2019: FDA regulates Starbucks coffee due to high caffeine content and possible exposure to children, requires a Pre-Market Caffeine Application (PMCA) per coffee blend, per coffee size, to be filed with the FDA each time the coffee is brewed, to ensure compliance with caffeine restrictions. Coffee only available to those over 18 with ID (21 in California). Starbucks closes 1,892 stores, and must install full gas chromatography labs in each remaining store to comply. New York Times claims that this is "sensible regulation" designed to keep children away from deadly and addictive caffeine.

And thus, most adults will be asleep most of the time. Or staggering. Zombie-pocalyse will be upon us!

 

[nicnik]

Natural, organic, environmentally friendly insecticide? My roses are always pestered by aphids.

How do they like PG and VG? Could it suffocate them?

 

[Bob Chill]

There are no charge backs. All sales are as is.
In this state anyway. No warranty issues.

That's not true. Chargebacks can happen 4 months or longer after the initial sale. They are initiated by the consumer and enforced by visa/mc/Amex and not the processing company. It's a consumer protection that places the burden on the retailer. The retailer relies on the manufacturer to protect the loss. Otherwise it's the retailers responsibility to cover the loss. If they don't then the card processor has to absorb the loss. Card issuers aren't in the business of covering retailers' losses.

The wild west aspect we all enjoy with vape products comes at a cost to retailers. There is no way around it.

 

[LittleBird]

It seems to me that we need to be targeting Senate Appropriations Committee and Ag subcommittee members; the House subcommittee already finished its work. The Senate Appropriations site doesn't note dates for business meetings or hearings on the Agriculture et al budget. Does anyone know when those meetings/hearings are scheduled?

Subcommittee members: Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies | United States Senate Committee on Appropriations

 

[The Ocelot]

It seems to me that we need to be targeting Senate Appropriations Committee and Ag subcommittee members; the House subcommittee already finished its work. The Senate Appropriations site doesn't note dates for business meetings or hearings on the Agriculture et al budget. Does anyone know when those meetings/hearings are scheduled?

Subcommittee members: Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies | United States Senate Committee on Appropriations

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

Agriculture, Rural Development, Food and Drug Administration, and Related Agencies | United States Senate Committee on Appropriations

ETA: Wait - it appears they already had a hearing. Are they waiting for a vote or what?

Hearing on the FY17 Food and Drug Administration Budget Request | United States Senate Committee on Appropriations

ETA: Just great. There is a link on the first page to submit testimony, but it was due in March.

 

[sparkky1]

Ok, here's me getting back on topic.

I say we fight these regs any way we can. I don't know the best way, or all the ways, but if someone suggests something and it sounds plausible to you, support it. Yes, we need to work together, but just because someone is in charge of something, it doesn't mean they always know what's best, so support whatever you want to support. If you're a consumer, support your vendors that seem to be fighting back. Keep up with the advocacy groups.

I have questions, and I haven't seen a satisfactory answer yet. How will nic base be affected? People keep saying it has other uses, but I've never seen it sold/advertised anywhere except for vape sites. Is it a raw material? Does it become a tobacco product if it's sold directly to consumers? Will nude nicotine(as an example) have to do a PMTA(s) for their base products? What's the likelihood of 100mg/ml nic getting approved?

How will manufacturers be able to show what role the flavors in THEIR products play in initiation by kids and initiation by anyone who’s never used the product?

It sounds like companies are going to have to answer that question for every flavor. Does that mean they will have to determine if tutti-frutti initiates more or less than tobacco flavored or key lime pie?

And why is initiation by anyone who's never used the product a bad thing? The major turning point for me was that the taste of Green Smoke wasn't cutting it and I wondered if another brand might make a coconut flavor. It was during this search I learned the term "vaping," found out about better gear, bought an eGo and quit smoking.

Because "they" don't want that ( coconut ) flavoring choice, they want menthol or tobacco flavor carcinogens, "they" don't want you to have a choice, it's either pain killers or whole tobacco, all of which HAS been an epidemic within the minor community for for the last decade, WHY change a good thing ?

Don't vape the kool-aid there sellin .........................

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

How do they like PG and VG? Could it suffocate them?

I think so. It clogs up their breathing.

 

[nicnik]

Within 5 years ... we will have doctors on our side ... it will have been 15 years from the start.

But 3 years before market killed as regs now stand.

Science will prevail on this ... I may not be able to do this alone with 30 setups (the study starts with how to build your coil) ... I will recruit others to join me.

No coil building after 8/10/16. It's been deemed to be manufacturing new product, since every build is different.

 

[LittleBird]

If - and this is a big if - both chambers have passed their respective appropriations bills prior to August recess, I wonder what impact it will have on the FDA's plans. I believe reconciliation of the two bills won't happen until after the recess, assuming each committee actually adopts a bill. That brings us to mid-September...

 

[WillyZee]

But 3 years before market killed as regs now stand.



No coil building after 8/10/16. It's been deemed to be manufacturing new product, since every build is different.

I'm going with different rules ... like none.