Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[Baditude]

I'm sort of in the same boat as Ocelot. My views on many things are strongly liberal. Pro-choice, pro gay marriage/rights, I do think that people on hard times sometimes need help getting back on their feet and not everyone can pull themselves up by the bootstraps, I think some sort of health insurance controls are needed as a medical costs are so high in the US, I don't care at all what bathrooms people use, etc... Everyone wants to control something though. The Republicans want to control my uterus and who I can marry (okay for me cause I'm straight, but I'm not the only person I'm concerned with). The democrats want to regulate what I can put into my body (except for the m-stuff, I guess, lol). Everyone has ulterior financial motives. I don't really feel I fit with the libertarians because I do think capitalism needs some checks. I guess I sort of look at effective government as finding a balance between the competing human tendencies of greed and laziness. Pure capitalism, imo, favors greed and those who already have money/power and want more, and are often willing to do unethical things to get it. Pure socialism would (again imo) foster laziness in those who could get away with it. Not sure where I fit in, but I do think that the US has become a Corporatocracy, and I don't think the problem is limited to one party. JMO.

Some of you know me personally (@Ocelot and @Spazmelda). I was a hard-working medical professional until I developed a medical issue that affected my work performance and was terminated from my job. I became blacklisted to all the hospitals that I applied to, because they all ask your former employer, "Would you re-hire this person?" Of course the answer is no, and that raises the old red flag. I couldn't even get an interview.

I did the same job for over 35 years. It was a very specialized job of specific skills and knowledge which didn't translate over to other jobs. I am 62 years old, and I'm not able to nor willing to go back to school to learn a new trade at my age. While looking for another job immediately after my termination, I received unemployment. My former employer appealed the unemployment and won, so then unemployment said I owed them the 2 months of pay they gave me. Falling through the cracks and getting further down the hole...

I eventually found a part time job working in a vape shop. Minimum wage 3 days a week. Paying my bills and costs of living with that paltry salary and savings I had in the bank. I tried to get full time status, but couldn't. After a year, my savings ran dry, couldn't pay my rent, and I was forced to quit my job and move in with my brother in another part of the state. Falling through the cracks again and getting even further down the hole...

I didn't have health insurance for over two years because I was either unemployed or I couldn't afford it on my salary. This year I qualified for Medicaid because I didn't make any money in 2015. I am able to eat because of the local Food Bank and help from my family. I'm not eligible for Social Security. I've had a Medical Disability claim in the works for over a year now. Last summer my car died and I can't afford to buy another car, so here I am stuck in the boondocks of rural Ohio with no car, no job, no way to get to a job, no internet, no cable tv ..... Weather permitting, I pedal my bicycle 3 miles to the local library just to get on the internet and ECF.

You may complain that I am getting free medical care (Medicaid). I paid my taxes like everyone else when I worked. I feel that I am now entitled to that free medical care. I've recently found out that I have high blood pressure, and am being evaluated for what is most likely prostate cancer.

Our current government and two party system is corrupted to the core. The rich just get richer, and the poor just get poorer; the middle class is rapidly getting smaller and smaller. The whole country needs a major overhaul. I was for Bernie Sanders, but most Americans aren't ready to change to a socialistic government. Funny that the happiest people in the world live in socialist countries. Go figure...

Hillary will be more of the Obama regime. Trump scares the bejesus out of me with his racist and sexist comments; what other secrets are in his bigoted heart? He won't return America to greatness, he will tear it apart in civil war.[/USER]

 

[classwife]

Apolagies in advance if this has already been posted and I hope it doesn't cause @KODIAK (TM) to hit the hard stuff again. /lol /joke

Gerie Voss, supervisory regulatory counselor at the FDA’s Center for Tobacco Products. Listen to her tell a bold face lie during a radio interview. The host asked her how she could defend these regulations in the face of uniform statements by vaping companies that “this is so onerous that this is going to drive them out of the business.” Her answer was “It’s important to remember that we’re talking about products that kill people.” Start at 4:45 Minutes here. Seriously! She has to lie to justify the Final Deeming! Ecigs don’t kill. Cigarettes with tobacco kill. Thanks to Dr. Siegel and his great Blog post.

Welcome to the Hall of Shame!

I wish I hadn't listened to that...made me and my never smoked, never vaped co-worker angry.

"products that kill people"...seriously...

 

[wiredlove]

I wish I hadn't listened to that...made me and my never smoked, never vaped co-worker angry.

"products that kill people"...seriously...

Don't bother trying to comment on the Texas Public Radio post, they promptly deleted my comment demanding the FDA start providing citations.

 

[mattiem]

I wish I hadn't listened to that...made me and my never smoked, never vaped co-worker angry.

"products that kill people"...seriously...

I have reached the point of being unable to listen to or read any more of the half truths and downright lies. A person can only be angry for so long before something has to give and I have reached that point. Now I am just sick Sick and tired but will continue to do my small part to try to counter the lies. It is so sad that there are so many in this country and around the world that believe these lies because they are not interested. It is not affecting them so they couldn't care less what we are going through. They won't care until something they believe in is in danger of being take away.

 

[Marina2]

Don't bother trying to comment on the Texas Public Radio post, they promptly deleted my comment demanding the FDA start providing citations.

I think that what she said is illegal if referring to e-cigarettes. There's some sort of law that protects businesses/trade from disparaging remarks that can hurt them (like libel/slander) Maybe they deleted it quick because they fear someone taking them on in this way.

 

[Myrany]

Some of you know me personally (Ocelot and Spazmelda). I was a hard-working medical professional until I developed a medical issue that affected my work performance and was terminated from my job. I became blacklisted to all the hospitals that I applied to, because they all ask, "Would you re-hire this person?" Of course the answer is no, and that raises the old red flag. I couldn't even get an interview.

I did the same job for over 35 years. It was a very specialized job of specific skills and knowledge which didn't translate over to other jobs. I am 62 years old, and I'm not able to nor willing to go back to school to learn a new trade at my age. While looking for another job immediately after my termination, I received unemployment. My former employer appealed the unemployment and won, so then unemployment said I owed them the 2 months of pay they gave me. Falling through the cracks and getting further down the hole...

I eventually found a part time job working in a vape shop. Minimum wage 3 days a week. Paying my bills and costs of living with that paltry salary and savings I had in the bank. I tried to get full time status, but couldn't. After a year, my savings ran dry, couldn't pay my rent, and I was forced to quit my job and move in with my brother in another part of the state. Falling through the cracks again and getting even further down the hole...

I didn't have health insurance for over two years because I was either unemployed or I couldn't afford it on my salary. This year I qualified for Medicaid because I didn't make any money in 2015. I am able to eat because of the local Food Bank and help from my family. I'm not eligible for Social Security. I've had a Medical Disability claim in the works for over a year now. Last summer my car died and I can't afford to buy another car, so here I am stuck in the boondocks of rural Ohio with no car, no job, no way to get to a job, etc.....

You may complain that I am getting free medical care. I paid my taxes like everyone else when I worked. I feel that I am now entitled to that free medical care.

Our current government and two party system is corrupted to the core. I was for Bernie Sanders, but most Americans aren't ready to change to a socialistic government. Hillary will be more of the Obama regime, and Trump scares the bejesus out of me with his racist and sexist comments; what other secrets are in his bigoted heart?

Welcome back Bad you were sincerely missed!

I just wish it was under better circumstances.

 

[Kent C]

You and I are members of the Rand Paul party. Until now I thought I was the only member.

Rand Paul is pro-life and pro-2nd amendment. There's a good chance he's pro-vaping from his anti-FDA stance and he's anti-nanny state.

 

[Lessifer]

I have reached the point of being unable to listen to or read any more of the half truths and downright lies. A person can only be angry for so long before something has to give and I have reached that point. Now I am just sick Sick and tired but will continue to do my small part to try to counter the lies. It is so sad that there are so many in this country and around the world that believe these lies because they are not interested. It is not affecting them so they couldn't care less what we are going through. They won't care until something they believe in is in danger of being take away.

Yeah. That video I made. I shared it to my fb that same day. One like from a "friend" that I only know from a fb game I played years ago. So I re-shared it, with a post reading. "You know me, I barely post on FB as it is and I posted a video of MYSELF, you have to know this is important." That led to one person watching and commenting in support.

Some people just care more about 10 minute meal options and people of walmart videos...

 

[mattiem]

Yeah. That video I made. I shared it to my fb that same day. One like from a "friend" that I only know from a fb game I played years ago. So I re-shared it, with a post reading. "You know me, I barely post on FB as it is and I posted a video of MYSELF, you have to know this is important." That led to one person watching and commenting in support.

Some people just care more about 10 minute meal options and people of walmart videos...

Yep, that is just one more sign of this instant gratification world we find ourselves living in now
My posting of it over there got exactly 0-zip-nada

 

[Woofer]

Done.
Dear Sen. Johnson and honorable committee members:

I just wanted to express my deep and sincere appreciation to you for your request for information from the FDA on its deeming regulation as it affects e-cigarettes. Your letter reflected a great deal of insight into the devastating effects this regulation will surely have.

I smoked cigarettes for 44 years and tried just about every cessation method in the book (some of them multiple times) including Wellbutrin, hypnotism, patches, gum, cold turkey and motivational books. Nothing worked. Then about 4 years ago I discovered e-cigarettes. I haven't smoked a single cigarette since then and I don't miss them one bit. I no longer have a chronic cough, my breathing and stamina are greatly improved and I feel better than I have in years. My doctor says my lung capacity is that of a never-smoker.

I and all the vapers I know use advanced, third generation, devices. The technological advances have been amazing. I vape such flavors as banana nut muffin and breakfast blend (a coffee flavor). I purchase these flavors at a local shop where they're made under highly sanitary and controlled conditions. I know because I've toured their facility. As you know, the deeming regulation will wipe out the thousands of businesses like this, costing all of the employees their jobs and depriving the owners of their investment and means of livelihood.

Most of the innovative manufacturers in this country will be forced out of business, not to mention many innovators abroad. The entire market will be left to an oligopoly consisting of a few tobacco companies and maybe one or two of the largest international companies. The only approved products are likely to be cig-alikes--the cheap, ineffective devices sold in convenience stores. (I know they're ineffective because I tried them, along with many vapers I know.) For all practical purposes the FDA has said the most effective and advance products will be gone, and has already indicated that only "closed" systems are likely to gain approval--i.e., cig-alikes.

I have carefully stored all the nicotine I'm likely to ever need in my freezer and I have purchased a number of devices that will easily last me for the rest of my life. So I'm not worried for myself. Rather, I'm worried about the tens of millions of current and future cigarette smokers in this country who will be denied the opportunity to quit smoking the way I did. Many, many lives are at stake. It is on their behalf that I extend my heartfelt thanks to you for tackling this issue head on. If there is anything I can do to assist, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Disclosure: I am an ordinary citizen, a semi-retired lawyer. I have no stake or financial interest in any seller or manufacturer of e-cigarettes and I have never represented any of them. I am not a lobbyist and I have no financial ties to any tobacco or pharmaceutical company.

Respectfully yours,

Excellent! Thank you for sharing this.

 

[mcol]

Ditto with y'all.
I mostly use FB to just stay in touch with relatives and a few friends.
And they don't care about serious issues unless it affects them directly.
They can play a lot of games on FB though.
Most people seems like anymore don't want to be bothered with anything
that isn't simple, quick, and self rewarding.

 

[Bronze]

Ditto with y'all.
I mostly use FB to just stay in touch with relatives and a few friends.
And they don't care about serious issues unless it affects them directly.
They can play a lot of games on FB though.
Most people seems like anymore don't want to be bothered with anything
that isn't simple, quick, and self rewarding.

We live in an increasingly narcissistic culture. Fake Book seems to fuel that with some.

 

[choochoogranny]

Sorry, Lessifer. I found out the "hard way" many years ago that even good friends and family will only listen with "half an ear", politely agree with you, may or may not think you're screwy to take it so seriously......until the same situation slaps them in the face a few years later.

It took only 6 years for one of my daughters to apologize for ignoring my advice and say I was right in my assessment. She's been the only one to ever do that. The youngest one is getting better and has at least learned to do "due diligence."

 

[classwife]

until the same situation slaps them in the face

this...right there...
So sad.

 

[LoriP1702]

Sorry, Lessifer. I found out the "hard way" many years ago that even good friends and family will only listen with "half an ear", politely agree with you, may or may not think you're screwy to take it so seriously......until the same situation slaps them in the face a few years later.

It took only 6 years for one of my daughters to apologize for ignoring my advice and say I was right in my assessment. She's been the only one to ever do that. The youngest one is getting better and has at least learned to do "due diligence."

I just had a rather unpleasant phone conversation this morning with my older sister, an (ex-smoker), I briefly, in passing, mentioned the deeming regs the FDA had handed down.

She said, it's about time, because it's still tobacco, and it's still smoking...

(Well, Becky, bar the door!! )
The rest of the conversation, I'll spare you the details, we'll eventually make up, but I'm sure we won't speak for a few weeks.

I only mention this because, that's the attitude of a lot of people have toward us.
Most aren't "bad" people they just don't understand, and, they don't care to understand...it doesn't mean a thing in their world, so who cares, we're just smokers to them as far as they're concerned.

...yes Chooch, I'm finding that out the hard way too.

 

[Kent C]

Her answer was “It’s important to remember that we’re talking about products that kill people.” Start at 4:45 Minutes here. Seriously! She has to lie to justify the Final Deeming!

Standard Operating Procedure. This type of person only gets in trouble when they tell the truth:

Maxine Waters in a committee meeting with oil execs:

Waters told the president of a major oil company to “guess what this liberal would be all about? This liberal would be all about socializing — uh, uh, would be about basically taking over and the government running all of your companies.” One renowned commentator, who said Waters made an absolute total fool of herself, points out that the congresswoman’s associates can be heard laughing in the video of the embarrassing exchange.

Jonathan Gruber is another example. And:

 

[Robino1]

{{{{ Hugs }}}}

 

[mattiem]

{{{{ Hugs }}}}

{{{{{{{{Robin}}}}}}}

ah ha, maybe that is what the good folks at the fda need------


anyone got a full grown Boa Constrictor or two, I hear that they give great hugs

------just before they have you for lunch.


I think I am losing my mind

 

[The Ocelot]

Apolagies in advance if this has already been posted and I hope it doesn't cause @KODIAK (TM) to hit the hard stuff again. /lol /joke

Gerie Voss, supervisory regulatory counselor at the FDA’s Center for Tobacco Products. Listen to her tell a bold face lie during a radio interview. The host asked her how she could defend these regulations in the face of uniform statements by vaping companies that “this is so onerous that this is going to drive them out of the business.” Her answer was “It’s important to remember that we’re talking about products that kill people.” Start at 4:45 Minutes here. Seriously! She has to lie to justify the Final Deeming! Ecigs don’t kill. Cigarettes with tobacco kill. Thanks to Dr. Siegel and his great Blog post.

Welcome to the Hall of Shame!

Kevin of VP Live played a click of the during one of his podcast interviews. I think it was the one with Dr. Siegel.

 

[rosesense]

Email update from CASAA, about signing petition of Faircloth and other stuff. I tried to donate and my computer crashed. Wonder if it is trying to tell me something, lol (too many tabs open, for instance).

CASAA: FDA opportunities for action and update!