Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[The Ocelot]

Their "estimate" is a blatant lie calculated to minimize the economic impact. How much fun would it be to cross-examine FDA officials on that? I would pay good money for the opportunity.

I'll bring the popcorn...and goats!

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

And the FDA sent out request for the public to report any 'problems' they may have had with ecigs...
Starting in 2009 through 3/12/2014

CTP FOIA Electronic Reading Room
CTP FOIA Electronic Reading Room

Scroll down to
Special Interest Topics
E-cigarette Adverse Events

6/22/2009-6/25/2013
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/AboutCTP/UCM361437.pdf

Adverse Event Reports June 24, 2013 through October 5, 2013

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/AboutCTP/UCM379475.pdf

10/5/13 - 3/12/14

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/AboutCTP/UCM393323.pdf

 

[The Ocelot]

Yep. But if I owned a small, independent vape shop, I'm not at all sure I'd want to register, as opposed to keeping a low profile and staying under the radar for as long as I could.

You posted what I was thinking. While completely inappropriate the first thought that crossed my mind was a yellow badge.

 

[bigdancehawk]

Yes, I agree, but my post was meant to say if the FDA had actually done a little bit of work and researched this type of data, they wouldn't have to look very far to answer those types of questions.
Their total lack of responsibility for their justifications is just appalling.

Give a high school kid a laptop and an internet connection, and in 10 days or so he or she would have a list of thousands, complete with product list, URL and phone number.

 

[crxess]

However, that said: I'm more than a little shocked that these businesses haven't made themselves known to the FDA by themselves.

Not sure why You would be shocked. Have a listen to members, from their experiences Cold walking into B&B's.
The single simple word - SMALL - dictates the Cause. (Be)Cause they are so involved in Day to Day, many are barely aware of FDA, Authority or Overreach and are often struggling to place their Business in a competitive position within their local community.
Looking at a Country the size of America with the United States divided into 50 Individual and unequal states, 48 such contiguous, with literally thousands of Counties dividing and additionally regulating, just keeping up with local regulatory demand can become daunting.
It seems large portions of these Small Business are Not Familiar with State or National Industry Organizations. It also seems these organizations are not doing an adequate job of recruiting membership or advisement as to the necessity to take protective action.

This country is known for DISTRACTION and Governments attempts to Slip through Control measures at all levels with as little Public attention to DETAIL as possible.*

* Yes, most of the unenlightened still think this is about AGE Restrictions and SAFE BOTTLING

I would venture a Guess, 20% or more of Shops doing in house mixing and not involved in internet sales have no idea they are about to become Manufacturers.

Why the Supply chain has not enlightened involved business I will never now.

 

[bigdancehawk]

Well, true, to an extent. But what they're really doing is building a case for when the lawsuits come: "this is what we took to be evidence. How else could we have measured it if no-one provided us actual names of businesses affected?"

It's not up to you to provide them with names. It's up to them to do the research.

 

[The Ocelot]

Give a high school kid a laptop and an internet connection, and in 10 days or so he or she would have a list of thousands, complete with product list, URL and phone number.

I'll help.

 

[The Ocelot]

It's not up to you to provide them with names. It's up to them to do the research.

One would think, but they dismissed the information provided to them. In the FDA parallel universe reports from industry participants and analysts carry less weight than Skippy, the intern, counting logos online.

 

[kross8]

YoursTruli, I've seen that mod before, it's gorgeous! I would love to have something like that. Unfortunately, I don't think I can afford it.

next time she rants about how dangerous your vaping/equipment is,, look her straight in the face and calmly inform her that hate and ignorance has killed far more people.. and maybe she should actually read up on the subject.

 

[bigdancehawk]

I'll bring the popcorn...and goats!

Drive the goats to the courthouse in limos and they might be mistaken for FDA officials and given a prime parking spot.

 

[The Ocelot]

next time she rants about how dangerous your vaping/equipment is,, look her straight in the face and calmly inform her that hate and ignorance has killed far more people.. and maybe she should actually read up on the subject.

That's so much nicer than keying her car.

 

[nineironman]

And the FDA sent out request for the public to report any 'problems' they may have had with ecigs...
Starting in 2009 through 3/12/2014

CTP FOIA Electronic Reading Room
CTP FOIA Electronic Reading Room

Scroll down to
Special Interest Topics
E-cigarette Adverse Events

6/22/2009-6/25/2013
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/AboutCTP/UCM361437.pdf

Adverse Event Reports June 24, 2013 through October 5, 2013

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/AboutCTP/UCM379475.pdf

10/5/13 - 3/12/14

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/AboutCTP/UCM393323.pdf

Where are the thousands of testamonials about where vaping has saved lives, where do you find those FDA? Huh? Make those public too!

 

[Mazinny]

That's true, but if most manufacturers and shops register, it will prove that their economic impact estimates are completely wrong and that might provide a further basis for legal attack.

Agreed. I too hope that most manufacturers comply enough to stay in business until at least Aug 2018. The FDA on the other hand is counting on the majority giving up.

 

[USMCotaku]

That too...along with squirrels.

I have a bird seed feeder that will automatically close if a squirrel gets on it...pretty neat idea. And no outdoor cats to worry about....dey get ett by coyotes.

 

[The Ocelot]

Where are the thousands of testamonials about where vaping has saved lives, where do you find those FDA? Huh? Make those public too!

The one I submitted for the preposed deeming was really long. I think they just skipped over the comments that didn't apply to the answers they had already prepared.

 

[zoiDman]

Give a high school kid a laptop and an internet connection, and in 10 days or so he or she would have a list of thousands, complete with product list, URL and phone number.

Give that same task to the NSA and they could compile the same list in about 17 seconds.

LOL

 

[Mazinny]

What about them? Some work, some by placebo effect...

Thats your standard of effectiveness, some work by placebo effect !? And those who suffer by relying on a completely inert and ineffective treatment ?

 

[USMCotaku]

Drive the goats to the courthouse in limos and they might be mistaken for FDA officials and given a prime parking spot.

goats have far too much dignity to ever be confused as an FDA official...you would need swine for that

 

[zoiDman]

And the FDA sent out request for the public to report any 'problems' they may have had with ecigs...
Starting in 2009 through 3/12/2014

CTP FOIA Electronic Reading Room
CTP FOIA Electronic Reading Room

Scroll down to
Special Interest Topics
E-cigarette Adverse Events

6/22/2009-6/25/2013
http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/AboutCTP/UCM361437.pdf

Adverse Event Reports June 24, 2013 through October 5, 2013

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/AboutCTP/UCM379475.pdf

10/5/13 - 3/12/14

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/AboutCTP/UCM393323.pdf

I wonder if the FDA has done the Same Thing for Varenicline?

 

[Lessifer]

Well, true, to an extent. But what they're really doing is building a case for when the lawsuits come: "this is what we took to be evidence. How else could we have measured it if no-one provided us actual names of businesses affected?"

Didn't someone, possibly Stefan Didak(sp?) try to gather business names and sales statistics? Or was that just in California?

Also, I think most of the businesses, up until a month ago, saw themselves as retailers NOT manufacturers.

Yep. But if I owned a small, independent vape shop, I'm not at all sure I'd want to register, as opposed to keeping a low profile and staying under the radar for as long as I could.

Well, there could be a big difference between what the FDA says they know, and what they actually know. Boots, ready to hit the ground on day 91, remember?