And this is true for almost any product. The 14 safety labels on ladders doesn't stop them from being misused. As I posted earlier elsewhere:
Maintenance man skills
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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And this is true for almost any product. The 14 safety labels on ladders doesn't stop them from being misused. As I posted earlier elsewhere:
Maintenance man skills
Yep, I was a actual card carrying dues paying Libertarian for over 20 years. Now, I refuse to align myself with any one party. Maybe the "Wild Party..." - Alice Cooper
I was kind of being generous and throwing in the few dozen people who have managed to harm themselves with vapor products, as compared to the number of people who have been harmed by smoking. Those would be the only numbers we have for vaping.
I was kidding. It's what Gary Johnson, the Libertarian Party candidate said in an interview.
I am like you as well. If you take the aggregate of my positions on different issues, i won't fall into any recognized political party or ideology either. On many issues, i don't even have a position.
I'm the same way. If the person's position aligns with my own, I'll vote for them. It doesn't matter if they are democrat, republican, independent, or any other party for that matter.
Do you think there can be Any Harm caused by e-Cigarette use?
ETA: Not counting things like Bare Batteries in Pockets or Mods Blowing Up in someone's Face.
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True but as vNeil said, no one has died from vaping. There have been accidents just like any other product. Most are user error - you can't fix stupid. And if you could with vaping they'd find another way to harm themselves. As far as chemicals, nothing has been shown to be a problem with eliquid. Could someone vape 100mg nic by accident - sure. Could someone put something else in the eliquid by DIY that may be harmful - yes. But again, that's true of almost any substance that people consume. To say "anything can happen" is not a reason for regulation.
No politicians position has so far aligned with mine on all issues that i have 'a position'. I just have to decide which issues are more important to me, and what that particular candidate can achieve on those issues.
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95% safer, 64% chance of rain, 30% increase in that, 5% decrease in this...
Dealing with small minds and beancounters who develop an obsession to quantify and mercantilize and commodify anything and everything and anybody and everybody. So they have to come up with a ballpark figure. Less, or far less, more or a lot more - too vague. Pols like to deal in absolutes - or what is being sold to them as absolutes. And I do see the necessity of it to *some* extent.
Take a beautiful flower. Mash its petals, put under micrsocope. Mash it some more, put under electron microscope. Mash it some more still, count the molecules, the atoms. Impressive numbers. Learned articles in scientific magazines. Scholars mumbling and stroking their beards while arguing the number of atoms. Did it help any of them, did it help any at all to grasp, to at least try to understand the beauty of a single flower in its wholeness ?
Don't think so.
I vape. Got my breath back. Can smell and taste better again. Probably smell better myself too. Haven't had a cold or a flu since I took up vaping. Statistically increased my life expectancy. Moot point if I get run over by a truck while vaping. So I appreciate these blessings. And I don't give a rodent's flatus whether its 95% or 94.5% or 95.3%.
Your gains from vaping may differ from mine.
But I will not argue percentage points. You see, I try my level best to see you as a fellow human.
Cuz the moment I see you as a set of numbers, they got me to play their game.
And I will have lost at least some part of my humanity.
I don't want that to happen.
Rant over
Dealing with small minds and beancounters who develop an obsession to quantify and mercantilize and commodify anything and everything and anybody and everybody. So they have to come up with a ballpark figure. Less, or far less, more or a lot more - too vague. Pols like to deal in absolutes - or what is being sold to them as absolutes. And I do see the necessity of it to *some* extent.
Take a beautiful flower. Mash its petals, put under micrsocope. Mash it some more, put under electron microscope. Mash it some more still, count the molecules, the atoms. Impressive numbers. Learned articles in scientific magazines. Scholars mumbling and stroking their beards while arguing the number of atoms. Did it help any of them, did it help any at all to grasp, to at least try to understand the beauty of a single flower in its wholeness ?
Don't think so.
I vape. Got my breath back. Can smell and taste better again. Probably smell better myself too. Haven't had a cold or a flu since I took up vaping. Statistically increased my life expectancy. Moot point if I get run over by a truck while vaping. So I appreciate these blessings. And I don't give a rodent's flatus whether its 95% or 94.5% or 95.3%.
Your gains from vaping may differ from mine.
But I will not argue percentage points. You see, I try my level best to see you as a fellow human.
Cuz the moment I see you as a set of numbers, they got me to play their game.
And I will have lost at least some part of my humanity.
I don't want that to happen.
Rant over
Just Me.
But I throw out All Battery Accidents and Mods Blowing up when I think about "e-Cigarette harm". The Numbers are Insignificant to the Numbers of Users.
I'm sorry, but right now, the most important issue to me - vaping.
Just for the record I do not count mech mod accidents as "harm to vapers"
They are voluntary canon fodder. Literally, I would think, based on some news accounts
They are voluntary canon fodder. Literally, I would think, based on some news accounts
If you truly mean "Any Harm" then the obvious answer is yes, I also believe that every breath I take likely causes me some harm.
If you mean Net Harm, then I'm not sure. Net harm on an individual level, or population level, it's possible. It's also entirely possible that there is net benefit to vaping, on both the individual and population level.
Relative harm is much harder to quantify, but also feels more important to me. Relative harm to smoking, no contest. So what is the absolute relative harm of vaping? I'm sure we don't know yet, maybe we never will. The research I've read so far puts it about the same as breathing city air in my mind, but that's subjective.
I vote the party. I live in a single party state. I've never once in my life seen a rep cross party lines. So whatever they say is quite irrelevant
Yeah i understand, but even if a particular politicians stance on vaping was completely aligned with mine, it doesn't guarantee that he/she will be successful in implementing their views.
Vaping is an important issue to me, but not the only issue that's important. I can't imagine ever voting for Hillary or Donald for example, regardless of their position on vaping.
I get frustrated with the theme I see repeated through out this thread.
I think zoidman (as I do) is saying that:
A) There's no definitive proof that vaping harms the user or has no affect on the user.
B) The FDA has absolutely no legitimate reason to regulate vaping at this point
I think zoidman (as I do) is saying that:
A) There's no definitive proof that vaping harms the user or has no affect on the user.
B) The FDA has absolutely no legitimate reason to regulate vaping at this point
I only included the accidents so as not to make it 100%, because certainty makes people nervous.
I'm not a Bernie supporter but that is why he didn't win some of primaries was because of the single party states. There were alot of independents that couldn't vote democrat and no time to register democrat if they wanted to do so.
Intolerance of opinion harms no one. And that intolerance flows both ways. However, advocating the force of gov't to implement opinions - that's another matter. That's where "lock step" fits firmly on a side that has nothing to do with libertarians, and is more along the lines of people posing questions and worrying about "possibilities" that have not shown any instances in vaping.
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