Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[nicnik]

I don't think it will ever happen but I will be happy to be proven wrong.

It's wishful thinking on my part, I think. I've pretty much agreed before with the thinking that the courts are our best hope. I wish that were a speedier process. In the case of exposure from the press, the corruption could be exposed to the masses more quickly, but I guess they are unlikely to be the ones to take it on, initially.

 

[leftyandsparky]

I have to share with you all my 12 yr olds pov... this was him on the subject, vaping is not tobacco,nicotine is a by-product of the tobacco plant, just as alcohol is a product of corn,which is also used for bio-fuel. From the mouth of my babe.

 

[nicnik]

It's wishful thinking on my part, I think. I've pretty much agreed before with the thinking that the courts are our best hope. I wish that were a speedier process. In the case of exposure from the press, the corruption could be exposed to the masses more quickly, but I guess they are unlikely to be the ones to take it on, initially.

One hope I do have for the press, is that 'A billion Lives' has been getting great reviews. If it makes a huge splash, it might happen before the courts do anything significant, though still not all that quickly.

If and when the documentary suceeds in alerting the masses, the press will follow suit.

 

[DC2]

Gray area. If you didn't touch the mod, didn't charge them and met in a backroom with a sign on the door that read, "Beware of the Leopard!" you might be okay. A secret escape tunnel would be prudent.

Sometimes you're pretty damn funny.

or kids that don't know what capture the flag or a whiffle ball is...hey that's my kids!

Capture the Flag is the bestest game ever that I played.

 

[BreSha6869]

I have to share with you all my 12 yr olds pov... this was him on the subject, vaping is not tobacco,nicotine is a by-product of the tobacco plant, just as alcohol is a product of corn,which is also used for bio-fuel. From the mouth of my babe.

Wait until they are 18-20 and think the vaping memes out there are funny. My oldest just sent me one that says that vaping causes ovarian cancer in males. Ha.

Wait until he needs gas money.

 

[DC2]

I would be estatic if a $2.25/30ml tax is the worst thing government does to vaping in the next two years. I would happily pay that.

And so there it is.

Hammer us into submission.
And we'll be happy with whatever crumbs we get.

What an amazingly successful "campaign" they have waged against us.
Sometimes it seems we never had a chance.

I wish that was true, but investigative reporters are an endangered species, pretty much extinct. The media isn't looking out for us anymore. There may be a few out there amongst the rest and we need them to get the word out, but I unfortunately think the mainstream media will drown out their voices.

The mainstream media HAS drowned out their voices.
Not will, has.

 

[leftyandsparky]

Wait until they are 18-20 and think the vaping memes out there are funny. My oldest just sent me one that says that vaping causes ovarian cancer in males. Ha.

Wait until he needs gas money.

Rofl.. mine doesn't understand all the politics, but he does gets very upset when someone says I'm smoking, he knows the difference so I'm ok! (He does chores for his $$ for the 4 wheeler)

 

[mattiem]

And so there it is.

Hammer us into submission.
And we'll be happy with whatever crumbs we get.

What an amazingly successful "campaign" they have waged against us.
Sometimes it seems we never had a chance.

Kinda like when someone who is happy with the price of gas because it is below $3.00 a gallon. I personally remember paying .17 cents a gallon and in the scheme of things, it wasn't all that long ago.

 

[mattiem]

I have to share with you all my 12 yr olds pov... this was him on the subject, vaping is not tobacco,nicotine is a by-product of the tobacco plant, just as alcohol is a product of corn,which is also used for bio-fuel. From the mouth of my babe.

Rofl.. mine doesn't understand all the politics, but he does gets very upset when someone says I'm smoking, he knows the difference so I'm ok! (He does chores for his $$ for the 4 wheeler)

That sounds like a young man I would enjoy being around. Sounds like you are raising him right

 

[leftyandsparky]

That sounds like a young man I would enjoy being around. Sounds like you are raising him right

We live in the real world,and I don't sugar coated it, we work hard for our things,and if he wants things he needs to work for them too.

 

[BreSha6869]

And so there it is.

Hammer us into submission.
And we'll be happy with whatever crumbs we get.

What an amazingly successful "campaign" they have waged against us.
Sometimes it seems we never had a chance.

The mainstream media HAS drowned out their voices.
Not will, has.

If you honestly believe that vape shops and online retailers will be (or should be) allowed to sell ejuice with nicotine without collecting a sin tax, you are dreaming. A $2-3/bottle tax would be acceptable to most considering $0.50+/ml is already in place in a few locations. The vape industry will not be "left alone". Taxation is a given. If the juice sellers want to lower their insanely high margins to eat the tax, good on them.

I don't buy much store bought juice, but I would not worry too much about paying $17 vs. $15 for a 30ml when I did.

 

[DC2]

There are always those who are willing to go rogue for what is true and right.

The is the closest I've seen yet in terms of being "nearly" mainstream media...
Now the FDA Is Trying to Kill Smokers | Fox News

Someone posted a chart showing how 6 corporations own 90% of the popular media. Those 6 corporations are run by 6 individuals. Who have decided that there will be a total lock down on anything pro-vape.

I know there was a private screening of A Billion Lives for some congress critters.

I imagine some of them got on the phone immediately thereafter.
And not in a good way.

Aaron Biebert is still alive.
Let's hope his documentary does not die prematurely either.

 

[BreSha6869]

Rofl.. mine doesn't understand all the politics, but he does gets very upset when someone says I'm smoking, he knows the difference so I'm ok! (He does chores for his $$ for the 4 wheeler)

He's glad his mom and dad aren't smoking and is happy we are vaping. He gets it but just trying to be funny. There are some hilarious memes out there. The Bear Gryls one about vaping his pee when he is out of juice is a personal favorite.

 

[GunMonkeyINTL]

Respectfully, this is NOT the time to point fingers at a given "organization" and or "leader" in a public forum where these kinds of thoughts may diminish the effectiveness of our collective fight. Think of an increase in apathy. If you have thoughts then the best way is to send an email/form to the respective "organization" and or "leader" jam packed with respectful, candid, and civil details.

I'm quite sure that if say Julie, Lou, or Ray had the opportunity to respond to your thoughts, then your perspective might be different. Trust me, I've corresponded (on background) with all three privately and I don't mince words. For me, it was always a learning experience since I don't walk in their shoes. Sometimes we agreed and other times we did not but that's to be expected.

Color me "disappointed" and the last time I saw these kinds of finger pointing posts on ECF was with Lou/AEMSA.

Just some food for thought and my 2 cents.

Stay Strong! Fight! Stock Up!

Respectfully, this is EXACTLY the time to be talking about what our community organization(s) are capable of.

You mentioned "finger pointing" multiple times, but the only fingers I see being pointed are at the FDA, BT, BP, and Gov't- exactly where the blame lies.

Nowhere, once, in my post or anyone else's, did I see or I imply that CASAA was to blame for anything that we're facing, only that they are ill-equipped to fight it. If that is "finger pointing" to you, then I don't know what to tell you.

If, as I am hearing, CASAA is made up of a handful of volunteers, then it sounds like what I said is accurate. In terms of advocacy groups, they are amateur, and, since they are only a handful of years old, they are immature.

As I pointed out in a previous post, it is not an impugnment of the individuals to point out that the one recognizable community "leader" we have is immature and unsophisticated, it is just a statement of fact (as I see it- with rationale to back it up).

You can choose to ignore that, if you'd like.

When would be a better time to discuss our community's organizational capability?

When the threat emerges? Oh, wait, that was a couple years ago. Missed that one, didn't we?

When the threat overtakes us? That will be somewhere between 2 months and 2 years from now. See you then, I guess, if we still have a community to discuss.

 

[zoiDman]

And so there it is.

Hammer us into submission.
And we'll be happy with whatever crumbs we get.

What an amazingly successful "campaign" they have waged against us.
Sometimes it seems we never had a chance.

...

Well Maybe I missed it.

But where was the Vaper's Petitions to Legislators?
Where was the Coalition of State/Local Retailers?
Where was the Peaceful Rally on the Capitol Steps?

 

[Lessifer]

I don't blame CASAA for anything. They are incredibly dedicated individuals who have volunteered to be the leadership of vaping consumer advocacy.

That doesn't mean I don't wish there was a clearer plan of action, and more organization and communication.

I understand limited means and participation.

Here's my wishlist:
1. Vapers and Vendors doing more to raise the numbers of vapers active in advocacy. CASAA can only do so much to grow its own membership, and I believe they do nearly everything they can. CASAA members are also doing everything they can think of to grow membership. Some vendors could be doing more.
2. Clear plan of action, with frequent updates. People are scared and angry, no one knows what to do. Even if the only thing we can do right now is the same things we've been doing for the past year, people need to know that someone is working on more. We don't need details, I think people just want reassurance. Otherwise, people will choose to act on their own.
3. Give us something else to do. Yes, we need to keep the pressure on for HR 2058 and Cole-Bishop, but if that's all people hear about, they start thinking "I've done that already." We have, and will continue to lose momentum.

Please don't take that as a critique, and it's not really aimed at members participating in this thread. Obviously we're all trying to keep up with everything we can, but we are such a tiny fraction.

 

[Lessifer]

If you honestly believe that vape shops and online retailers will be (or should be) allowed to sell ejuice with nicotine without collecting a sin tax, you are dreaming. A $2-3/bottle tax would be acceptable to most considering $0.50+/ml is already in place in a few locations. The vape industry will not be "left alone". Taxation is a given. If the juice sellers want to lower their insanely high margins to eat the tax, good on them.

I don't buy much store bought juice, but I would not worry too much about paying $17 vs. $15 for a 30ml when I did.

And if you think bulk nic will be left alone, you're dreaming too. Just how much are you willing to pay for that liter of 100mg nic base? Or, more likely, the 100ml bottle of 24mg nic base that you might be allowed to purchase?

 

[Vandal]

The is the closest I've seen yet in terms of being "nearly" mainstream media...
Now the FDA Is Trying to Kill Smokers | Fox News

"...the FDA says e-cigarettes contain trace chemicals that “may” be “toxic.”

But most everything “may” be toxic. New York Times science columnist John Tierney writes: “The agency has never presented evidence that the trace amounts actually cause any harm, and it has neglected to mention that similar traces of these chemicals have been found in other FDA-approved products, including nicotine patches and gum. The agency’s methodology and warnings have been lambasted in scientific journals."

Right on. ETA: and true enough, this (contains trace chemicals that “may” be “toxic”) could be said of literally anything in the world.

 

[Yiana]

And so there it is.

Hammer us into submission.
And we'll be happy with whatever crumbs we get.

What an amazingly successful "campaign" they have waged against us.
Sometimes it seems we never had a chance.

The mainstream media HAS drowned out their voices.
Not will, has.

You're right it is will not would.

 

[VNeil]

The is the closest I've seen yet in terms of being "nearly" mainstream media...
Now the FDA Is Trying to Kill Smokers | Fox News

I know there was a private screening of A Billion Lives for some congress critters.
I imagine some of them got on the phone immediately thereafter.

Aaron Biebert is still alive.
Let's hope his documentary does not die prematurely either.

It's a shame that Stossel didn't connect the dots to the real agenda: Maintaining tobacco tax revenues and other smoking related revenue streams such as chemo.