Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!

[skoony]

I have seen signs like this and a few very dramatic videos of shops not being ale to help customers now.
Maybe I am misunderstanding something but I keep seeing/hearing those supposedly in the know saying once the device or whatever is sold vape shops can help people with them. ?

No they can't. users have to figure out using the instructions with the product how to work it.
Why can they do this? When I buy a multi-band radio there is no law saying the vendor that
sold it to me is required to walk me through. There is no law saying he can't. However there is now a law
saying that when it concerns our product they can not do this anymore concerning our product.
Why? For the chillin'. End of story.courts will agree. It's over.

It would be Nice to Challenge the FDA in Court if the FDA wanted to Fine Me for showing someone How to Safely Use a Product that I sell.

Safety isn't the issue. If it was we wouldn't be here.

They're not going to shut anybody down or seize inventory just because a store fills a tank or something equally trivial. Worse case scenario would be an initial warning letter and then you could decide whether to fight or capitulate. If you don't capitulate, then fines would start out small and escalate.

This would be ok if this is where it ended. Every step of the way requires a response that documents
thoroughly in detail what your violation was and how your procedures in detail allowed this. How in detail you have changed your procedures to stop this backed up with research proving this. You may
be required to submit studies proving that this behavior did or did not change the vapor producing
quality of the device or affect the user,or nonuser of the device depending on age,likelihood of them being dual users,underage,etc... etc..etc..

Regards
Mike

 

[Lessifer]

I thought we were talking about a store employee filling a customer's tank atomizer with e-juice. But now I'm uncertain what you're referring to.

I thought the concern was that filling a tank = modifying the product = (under the regs) manufacturing. Unless you sold filled tanks prior to 8/8, you've now manufactured a new product.

 

[Bea-FL]

I Don't think Anyone is Faulting the Owner of that B&M. Or Expecting this B&M to lead with their Nose when it comes to Something like this.

It's Just Ridiculous that thru the Unclear Actions of a "Public Health" Agency in America that we are Even Having this Conversation.

Totally agree.

 

[bigdancehawk]

No they can't. users have to figure out using the instructions with the product how to work it.
Why can they do this? When I buy a multi-band radio there is no law saying the vendor that
sold it to me is required to walk me through. There is no law saying he can't. However there is now a law
saying that when it concerns our product they can not do this anymore concerning our product.
Why? For the chillin'. End of story.courts will agree. It's over.


Safety isn't the issue. If it was we wouldn't be here.


This would be ok if this is where it ended. Every step of the way requires a response that documents
thoroughly in detail what your violation was and how your procedures in detail allowed this. How in detail you have changed your procedures to stop this backed up with research proving this. You may
be required to submit studies proving that this behavior did or did not change the vapor producing
quality of the device or affect the user,or nonuser of the device depending on age,likelihood of them being dual users,underage,etc... etc..etc..

Regards
Mike

The warning letter, even if it's for the sale of cigarettes to a minor, merely requires a statement as to how the retailer intends to correct the problem to prevent future violations. It doesn't require all those other things. LINK

I would respond by simply stating: "We have cautioned all of our current employees, both orally and in writing, that they may not put e-juice in our customer's atomizers. All employees, present and future, are now required to sign an acknowledgment that they have been fully informed of this rule, agree to follow it, and that failure to do so may be grounds for suspension or termination."

 

[skoony]

The warning letter, even if it's for the sale of cigarettes to a minor, merely requires a statement as to how the retailer intends to correct the problem to prevent future violations. It doesn't require all those other things. LINK

Nope. You just can't say sorry we will not do this again nor will my employee's.
Think ISO 9000 requirements.
If your response is less than 50-100 pages with documentation backing that up
they wont even look at it. This will not be a parking ticket. The beauty of this is
even you successfully completed a PTMA your obligated yearly to go through the
process more or less to prove nothings changed. Maybe not expensive as the
original PTMA but,an ongoing cost that will dwarf the original cost over time.

There are no back doors unless or, until the courts or congress changes it.

Regards
Mike

 

[Robino1]

Civil disobedience. I'm willing and ready.

Oliver/SmokeyJoe. why the name change?

Probably thought it was time to use his real name.

 

[Bronze]

If someone showed me this, I would be Embarrassed to say that I worked at for FDA. Even if I was just a Switchboard Operator. Or someone who Vacuumed the floors at Night.

Me too but sadly there are those who get off on telling other people what to do, when to do it, and how to do it.

 

[Bronze]

Civil disobedience. I'm willing and ready.

Me too.

 

[zoiDman]

Civil disobedience. I'm willing and ready.

I just Think there is a point where a Reasonable Person, acting in a Reasonable Capacity, has to say... No. I can Not Comply with this.

And I would Love to ask an FDA Lawyer "under direct" why I should Not be Allowed to Fill or Replace a Coil Head of an Elderly Arthritic Person's e-Cigarette?

 

[Bea-FL]

I just Think there is a point where a Reasonable Person, acting in a Reasonable Capacity, has to say... No. I can Not Comply with this.

And I would Love to ask an FDA Lawyer "under direct" why I should Not be Allowed to Fill or Replace a Coil Head of an Elderly Arthritic Person's e-Cigarette?

But that kind of thinking would require having a reasonable expectation of being understood, of having this discussion with people who are interested in resolving a given issue in a reasonable, sensical manner which, I'm afraid, is an unreasonable expectation when it involves modern government types.

Edit: I am not trying to discourage you or stop you from trying.I admire your resolve to do something about this issue. When I was in my 20s and 30s I probably would have stood right beside you.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Edit: I am not trying to discourage you or stop you from trying.I admire your resolve to do something about this issue. When I was in my 20s and 30s I probably would have stood right beside you.

I'm not sure How Old you are? And it is None of my Business. But on my Birthday, it takes 3 Boxes of these Candles to Load Up the Cake.

And there Aren't that many left in the Last Box.

 

[Fozzy71]

Joint Petitioners Opposition and Reply Brief - AS FILED.pdf

 

[Bea-FL]

I'm not sure How Old you are? And it is None of my Business. But on my Birthday, it takes 3 Boxes of these Candles to Load Up the Cake.

And there Aren't that many left in the Last Box.

LOL. I'm 66. Life got very rough about 15 years ago and I stopped fighting. I'm glad you haven't. Maybe us "older" folks can still make a difference, huh?

On that note folks, time to call it a night for me. Be back tomorrow.

 

[Robino1]

Joint Petitioners Opposition and Reply Brief - AS FILED.pdf

^^^^ LOVE ^^^^

Thank you for posting this

 

[Robino1]

CONCLUSION
The Deeming Rule purports to regulate products outside the scope of FDA’s statutory authority. Moreover, the Rule purports to subject Nicopure and the rest of the vaping industry to crushing regulation in the interest of the public health, while conceding that the Rule may produce no public health benefits at all. FDA compounded this improper approach by ignoring reasonable, more flexible alternatives to the “all-or-nothing” approach taken with respect to vaping products, and by failing to explain the choices made in the Rule. FDA also abdicated its obligation to conduct a reasoned cost-benefit analysis. And it has violated Plaintiffs’ First Amendment rights. This Court should hold unlawful and set aside the Deeming Rule’s regulation of vaping devices and e-liquids.​

 

[zoiDman]

LOL. I'm 66. Life got very rough about 15 years ago and I stopped fighting. I'm glad you haven't. Maybe us "older" folks can still make a difference, huh?

On that note folks, time to call it a night for me. Be back tomorrow.

As long as you can Send an e-Mail, or make a Phone Call, or Vote, or pass along some Information to someone who Hasn't seen it yet, you can Still Fight.

Strength is Not Always in an Individual who Fights. But in the Number of Individuals who are in The Fight.

 

[zoiDman]

Joint Petitioners Opposition and Reply Brief - AS FILED.pdf

Thank You for Posting this Fozzy71.

 

[Fozzy71]

Thank You for Posting this Fozzy71.

Saw it and the synopsis @Robino1 quoted and figured some here might want to see it. Was a bit surprised I was the first to post it to be honest as I was out for a long walk when it went up on the CASAA facebook feed.

 

[zoiDman]

Saw it and the synopsis @Robino1 quoted and figured some here might want to see it. Was a bit surprised I was the first to post it to be honest as I was out for a long walk when it went up on the CASAA facebook feed.

Those of us who are not on FB are always the Last to see things. And are Completely Reliant on those who are for Late Breaking News. LOL.

Thanks again for Posting it.

 

[seminolewind]

Civil disobedience. I'm willing and ready.



Probably thought it was time to use his real name.

I like SmokeyJoe better. Oh Well