Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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So much truth in that statement.
Sometimes I think most of society is like that. I think there's too many people who's life gets out of whack if the low man (the smoker) is no longer the low person on the totem pole. Makes them feel one rung closer to the bottom.
I really think you have to take a step back and not ASSUME that other peeople, esp since we are on a vaping forum, want exactly what you want.
To be honest, I meet very few vapers. And many of the ones I meet, even on here, often vape for a while to get off cigs, then quit. People have busy lives, careers, families and many other extra-curricular activities like Kayaking, hiking, fishing, running marathons...........not EVERYBODY wants another *hobby* or even another chore.
I am also in the age group where most everyone I know already quit smoking.......10, 15, and 20 years ago. And vaping wasn't around then.
I think when you hang out in one mileau, i..e, like a vaping forum, one tends to think that everyone is "like us"........but they are not.
Most people I know quit before there was vaping, so saying those other methods didn't work is not really accurate. What you CAN say is that it didn't, or wouldn't work, for YOU.
I see a lot of this on vaping forums, perhpas because it is so *topic specific*, and the poeple who are on vaping forums have one thing in common and that is mostly vaping. It's not like there are a lot of other subject matter / topic areas here that do not relate to vaping. It's not a general forum, but a niche one.
So, it's easy to assume that most people think like you.........and they do.........HERE. But they really don't out there in the rest of the world.
Less than 20% of the US population vapes, or even cares about it. Way less, probably.
What I don't understand, and have never really understood about some of the sentiment on this forum, is the almost constant need to bash every other form of NRT if it is not vaping.
I don't get it. What if you knew somebody who had to put down other people in order to feel like they matter? Using that same kind of reasoning, why do vapers have to Bash everything that is "not vaping"?
For me, other forms of NRT are not at all threatening. That is because, in my heart, I am truly invested in the idea of helping people get off cigs. I really am grateful that there are so MANY options for them...........whether they be cig a likes, patches, gum, snus, whatever. I don't feel everybody HAS to vape!
I just want to see them save their own lives, let them choose.
Vaping didn't work for my brother, whom I love very much. Nic gum did. I am so happy he is off the cigs.
This in no way removes that fact that the way they are regulating vapor products is wrong wrong wrong. But until 8/8/2018, we have time. I just don't see how bashing every other method that people can use and do use to quit smoking HELPS US IN ANY WAY. it just sounds like sour grapes.
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EVERYONE I know that has tried to quit smoking using patches or gum failed to quit smoking.I really think you have to take a step back and not ASSUME that other peeople, esp since we are on a vaping forum, want exactly what you want.
To be honest, I meet very few vapers. And many of the ones I meet, even on here, often vape for a while to get off cigs, then quit. People have busy lives, careers, families and many other extra-curricular activities like Kayaking, hiking, fishing, running marathons...........not EVERYBODY wants another *hobby* or even another chore.
I am also in the age group where most everyone I know already quit smoking.......10, 15, and 20 years ago. And vaping wasn't around then.
I think when you hang out in one mileau, i..e, like a vaping forum, one tends to think that everyone is "like us"........but they are not.
Most people I know quit before there was vaping, so saying those other methods didn't work is not really accurate. What you CAN say is that it didn't, or wouldn't work, for YOU.
I see a lot of this on vaping forums, perhpas because it is so *topic specific*, and the poeple who are on vaping forums have one thing in common and that is mostly vaping. It's not like there are a lot of other subject matter / topic areas here that do not relate to vaping. It's not a general forum, but a niche one.
So, it's easy to assume that most people think like you.........and they do.........HERE. But they really don't out there in the rest of the world.
Less than 20% of the US population vapes, or even cares about it. Way less, probably.
What I don't understand, and have never really understood about some of the sentiment on this forum, is the almost constant need to bash every other form of NRT if it is not vaping.
I don't get it. What if you knew somebody who had to put down other people in order to feel like they matter? Using that same kind of reasoning, why do vapers have to Bash everything that is "not vaping"?
For me, other forms of NRT are not at all threatening. That is because, in my heart, I am truly invested in the idea of helping people get off cigs. I really am grateful that there are so MANY options for them...........whether they be cig a likes, patches, gum, snus, whatever. I don't feel everybody HAS to vape!
I just want to see them save their own lives, let them choose.
Vaping didn't work for my brother, whom I love very much. Nic gum did. I am so happy he is off the cigs.
This in no way removes that fact that the way they are regulating vapor products is wrong wrong wrong. But until 8/8/2018, we have time. I just don't see how bashing every other method that people can use and do use to quit smoking HELPS US IN ANY WAY. it just sounds like sour grapes.
EVERYONE I know that tried vaping has quit smoking.
OK, there are two people I know that went back to cigarettes after trying vaping, just two.
Antidotal, perhaps, but I think it is a testament to the extreme effectiveness of e-cigs.
Same here. And some of the people I know (my best fried is the best example) who I NEVER thought would even try to stop smoking switched on a dime. In my case (and my wife's) it's not a surprise because we tried many times and my god we wanted to stop smoking but still feel "normal". I had 2 multi year breaks over the last 30 years and while it was great not harming myself I never felt right. Could never shake it. My wife never took a break and adopted it immediately. And couldn't be happier 3 years later and counting.
OTOH- I know 2 people close to me who seem to be incapable of making the switch even though they swear they want to quit or try something else. One person is no surprise...he can't even keep a lighter in his possession for more than 24 hours. But the other one must be lying to himself and those around him. A network engineer with vast electronics knowledge and health starting to fail in his 50's. I got him to buy a good rig and mixed all kinds of flavors at high strength for him. Out of the gate it worked perfect. But even something as simple as filling tanks and switching stock atomizers proved too much of a chore. He's not even dual using anymore. I don't feel bad though. I led him to water. That's all I can do.
I read the FDA's response. It's pretty good but that's to be expected. I mean, what do we expect? A change of heart? A concession of some sort? Not a chance.
I do agree with the posts about circular arguments and lack of substantial evidence to back their claims. IMHO- the plaintiffs case is pretty concise and clear while the defense seems to be throwing a kitchen sink out. I haven't a clue which way this is going to go. Seems like a 50/50 tie right now.
I do agree with the posts about circular arguments and lack of substantial evidence to back their claims. IMHO- the plaintiffs case is pretty concise and clear while the defense seems to be throwing a kitchen sink out. I haven't a clue which way this is going to go. Seems like a 50/50 tie right now.
Isn't it wonderful? I lived in the middle of 48 acres for many years with hundreds of rural acres around that. Had to move to town for health reasons to be closer to a hospital. Hate it.It sounds very cool! I live in the boonies now, life is simple and slow pased, thousands of acres near by of nothing but nature but I like having contact with the outside world too
Just noticed what state you live in. I have very fond memories of AK. Was there for a couple of weeks during the Valdez spill clean-up. Met wonderful people.Strange thing about happiness. When you seem to have more of it than others, they simply don't like it and try to convince you that your happiness is wrong.
The one saving grace in all this is the judge tends to follow the letter of the law. She's the one that told the current administration to go pound sand when they tried to claim "executive privilege" on the Fast and Furious lawsuit.
Judge rejects Obama's executive privilege claim over Fast and Furious records
Judge rejects Obama's executive privilege claim over Fast and Furious records
I absolutely agrre with everything you said here. Everything.I really think you have to take a step back and not ASSUME that other peeople, esp since we are on a vaping forum, want exactly what you want.
To be honest, I meet very few vapers. And many of the ones I meet, even on here, often vape for a while to get off cigs, then quit. People have busy lives, careers, families and many other extra-curricular activities like Kayaking, hiking, fishing, running marathons...........not EVERYBODY wants another *hobby* or even another chore.
I am also in the age group where most everyone I know already quit smoking.......10, 15, and 20 years ago. And vaping wasn't around then.
I think when you hang out in one mileau, i..e, like a vaping forum, one tends to think that everyone is "like us"........but they are not.
Most people I know quit before there was vaping, so saying those other methods didn't work is not really accurate. What you CAN say is that it didn't, or wouldn't work, for YOU.
I see a lot of this on vaping forums, perhpas because it is so *topic specific*, and the poeple who are on vaping forums have one thing in common and that is mostly vaping. It's not like there are a lot of other subject matter / topic areas here that do not relate to vaping. It's not a general forum, but a niche one.
So, it's easy to assume that most people think like you.........and they do.........HERE. But they really don't out there in the rest of the world.
Less than 20% of the US population vapes, or even cares about it. Way less, probably.
What I don't understand, and have never really understood about some of the sentiment on this forum, is the almost constant need to bash every other form of NRT if it is not vaping.
I don't get it. What if you knew somebody who had to put down other people in order to feel like they matter? Using that same kind of reasoning, why do vapers have to Bash everything that is "not vaping"?
For me, other forms of NRT are not at all threatening. That is because, in my heart, I am truly invested in the idea of helping people get off cigs. I really am grateful that there are so MANY options for them...........whether they be cig a likes, patches, gum, snus, whatever. I don't feel everybody HAS to vape!
I just want to see them save their own lives, let them choose.
Vaping didn't work for my brother, whom I love very much. Nic gum did. I am so happy he is off the cigs.
This in no way removes that fact that the way they are regulating vapor products is wrong wrong wrong. But until 8/8/2018, we have time. I just don't see how bashing every other method that people can use and do use to quit smoking HELPS US IN ANY WAY. it just sounds like sour grapes.
I too know several people who were successful in quitting without vaping. My hubby for one…the patch worked for him. He's been cig-free for 7 years.
I cried for days. Still do sometimes and it's been 5 years. Couldn't even go to the closing.
My hubby quit cold turkey years ago and he doesn't get vaping, but happy I found something that works.
Not smoking or vaping is the best scenario for sure.
My wife didn't like vaping until I took her to a vape expo and had her try hundreds of different eJuices. She realized that she loved grape and quit smoking on the spot. She has happily been Vaping my DIY grape for 4 months tomorrow.
Ok, back to griping about the FDA....
It enrages me that all the e-liquid companies have to put these ugly, annoying labels on liquids as if they are worse than cigarettes. Plus, they go on and on in the lawsuit about children being hooked on nicotine if they are exposed to vaping. At the same time they know they lightened up the warnings on OTC NRT with only one active ingredient: nicotine! Seriously, what is the difference between our nicotine and Nicorettes? I wonder if I have to have age verification to buy nic gum on Amazon?
Hamburg. Decades of research on nicotine use outside of smoking!! I hope the judge knows how the FDA views nicotine in NRTs, not the crap they spout in the lawsuit. They agreed that the dire warnings were not necessary and may stop people from using products to help them quit smoking. EXACTLY the opposite of what they are doing to vaping.
Nicotine Replacement Therapy Labels May Change
It enrages me that all the e-liquid companies have to put these ugly, annoying labels on liquids as if they are worse than cigarettes. Plus, they go on and on in the lawsuit about children being hooked on nicotine if they are exposed to vaping. At the same time they know they lightened up the warnings on OTC NRT with only one active ingredient: nicotine! Seriously, what is the difference between our nicotine and Nicorettes? I wonder if I have to have age verification to buy nic gum on Amazon?
Hamburg. Decades of research on nicotine use outside of smoking!! I hope the judge knows how the FDA views nicotine in NRTs, not the crap they spout in the lawsuit. They agreed that the dire warnings were not necessary and may stop people from using products to help them quit smoking. EXACTLY the opposite of what they are doing to vaping. Nicotine Replacement Therapy Labels May Change
True but F&F was an executive-branch-only fiasco that didn't involve Congress. Kind of a no-brainer for her or any other Federal Judge. Here we have something quite different wrapped around the TCA with official guidance coming from one of her peers. (Judge Leon).
I am worried. Very worried.
One looks like smoking. The other doesn't. Ya'll are still hung up on science, facts and logic when this is all about extreme prejudice towards a behavior. Nothing more.
Nobody said ecigs aren't effective. I certainly didn't.
I said that millions of people did quit smoking before there was vaping. That is a fact, not an opinion.
The problem I am trying to fix is that many vapers here, when they became vapers, decided that it was a special club and that it was okay to put other forms of NRT down, and those who use it. (Seen way too many posts bashing cig-a-likes, for instance).
My message is that I don't care what people use, if it works for them. Maybe that is why some people look on vapers negatively....... "messianic" complexes, and over-evangelizing, are always annoying. regardless of what the "belief" is. When somebody tells you they have all the answers, the natural inclination is to walk away.
I don't throw Hamburg under the bus on everything. She worked tirelessly in the field of harm reduction (against an opposing political party in her region) and was totally going against the grain at that time in history when she instituted needle exchange programs. She had to fight against many people at the time and I admired her for it.
I was actually hoping she'd stick around, because I think her understanding of harm reduction, on the front lines up close and personal, was significant and I think that over the next few years she would have come around. Then, she left the FDA.
At any rate, we still don't know what will happen by Fall of 2018. I don't assume everything will be terrible, but then again, I am cautiously optimistic.
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