Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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We do not need the absurdity of a provision abolishing mechanicals. The gov knows full well as should the legislative authors what the state of the art is. Especially if they are funding it. After all we are all paying their salaries and financing their efforts.
So no, we don't need to have a civil war over regs and mechs. This is a false dilemma. Tell us what you're gonna do for us, not to us. Devisive proposals such as this that prey upon our preferences will only continue to prolong the pain of attrition we're being subjected to. What I feel we should do is call our reps on this disheartening cheap shot. And that I've done. To call it what it is.
No sacrificial lambs. No vaper left behind.
Do what is simple and rightful to do. Extract vaping from tobacco legislation. Come see us in the morning then. After we've had an aspirin and a beer. Perhaps we'll be more amenable to considerate suggestions.
Good luck all.
So no, we don't need to have a civil war over regs and mechs. This is a false dilemma. Tell us what you're gonna do for us, not to us. Devisive proposals such as this that prey upon our preferences will only continue to prolong the pain of attrition we're being subjected to. What I feel we should do is call our reps on this disheartening cheap shot. And that I've done. To call it what it is.
No sacrificial lambs. No vaper left behind.
Do what is simple and rightful to do. Extract vaping from tobacco legislation. Come see us in the morning then. After we've had an aspirin and a beer. Perhaps we'll be more amenable to considerate suggestions.
Good luck all.
The line is: Vaping in and of itself has done no harm to anyone, young or old. From what is there to protect?
I agree. Battery safety is the main issue IMO and should be addressed ahead of any regulation of ecigs. A risk that can be reduced with labeling and packaging. Separating this issue from the ecig narrative could help reduce the hysteria and opposition in the court of public opinion.
So, when you say drugs, are you talking about vaping, or nicotine? Should everything vape related be restricted, devices, 0mg liquid?
I'm going to assume it's nicotine you mean.
Nicotine, absent tobacco, has not been shown to promote dependence.
Though it can be lethal in large doses, in the concentrations commonly used in vaping it is a mild stimulant similar in effect to caffeine, or even ginseng, guarana, taurine, all of which are readily available in sweet tasting energy drinks that can be purchased by anyone regardless of age.
Nicotine has no mind/consciousness altering effects, other than possibly sharpening focus and memory.
Alcohol causes physical harm to the user, and often puts the user in situations where they can physically harm others by impairing their judgement and/or reactions.
So, aside from political reasons, why the restriction?
Sad.
Then the public should be well informed on the differences in principle and function of regulation and encroachment. That it should not be the government that initiates the latter but only to protect the interests of the individual when infringed upon and to balance as best possible the intersection of/or competing lawful interests. Otherwise government is a mere and common interloper not worthy of the authority.
Our children are best protected when they are brought to understand this and the importance of these principles to civilized society. Then they can adequately defend themselves. No label warnings required.
Good luck.
When i see over 500 ingredients listed on a pack of cigs, I'll concede that there's a small possibility that an ingredient list has a modicum of merit or logic inherent.
Yellow #5
Natural flavors
Artificial flavors
Aren't ingredients and aren't useful.
Tapatyped
Yellow #5
Natural flavors
Artificial flavors
Aren't ingredients and aren't useful.
Tapatyped
The real problem is much simpler than any of that...
The real problem is that there is a growing segment that WANT what was happening.
And for many decades now they have been voting for what has been happening.
I could say so much more about that.
But I won't.
A voluntary disclosure of the maker as to the attributes or constituents of a product can go a long way to allay the concerns of the buying public. A classic means of producing some powerful promotion, especially when independently validated, to make your widget well known and well thought of.
Good luck.
Can't disagree with you on the growing segment. Have a trust in folks, in their better nature. Most of us share far more in common in our families, dedication to improvement in our lives, in our sense of humanity…and yes, even spiritual existence, than the copyrighters would acknowledge. We all fail DC as Solchenitzen pointed out…that treacherous line between good and evil. We're all susceptible. So I have to think that segment is a lot smaller than the hollering establishment would have us believe. We all can be stupid. Yet we must look out for that good side in each and all of us. We are far more powerful than the force arrayed against us if we recognize this.
Our enemy is the author of confusion.
Good luck.
But when I look at what is happening on our college campuses, I tremble for our future.
And with that, the future of the world.
Then again, like you said, being loud doesn't make you the majority.
And the current state of the mainstream media only makes matters worse.
Yes, they may make matters SEEM worse.
But they also do, indeed, MAKE matters worse as well.
I hate the mainstream media more than I can ever convey in words.
Without their complicity none of this would even be possible.
(bold me)
Can you imagine if they had done the RIGHT thing and actually said what an amazing benefit for public health vaping is...how many more people would quit smoking cigarettes !!
Now we have people that believe it's worse than smoking cigarettes...this is tragic !!!!
The thing is, until the last year or so, there wasn't a lot of decent published work to establish either safety or efficacy for smoking cessation. There is still far from a ton out there, although we are seeing more coming to light. Even the RCP report in the UK did not come out until almost exactly one year ago.
We already see more and more health professionals viewing vaping in a more positive light for their patients who smoke. We have multiple pieces of legislation introduced to lessen the impact of strict regulation ( Cole Bishop, and now the Hunter legislation). We have a new FDA Commissioner who recognizes the benefits of harm reduction in evaluating products.
Is everything rainbows and unicorns? No. But things are looking less bleak than when the deeming regulations were first released, we're still buying new vape gear, and we've all had additional time to prepare in case the vapocalypse cannot be avoided. That new education and outreach to the nonsmoking public, and even many smokers out there, has to be done. But lets face it, until these data came along, there wasn't a ton of info out there about the utility and safety of vaping for either the scientific or lay communities to rely on. And just because Dr. F was out in front, you need more than one researcher if credible, reproducible data is to be obtained.
There are now NIH grants, Federal money, going to support vaping research. There are major cancer centers (such as Moffitt) conducting multiyear studies on vaping patterns. That, IMHO, is what's required to make vaping a viable solution to reduce the use of combustible tobacco, and even to maintain the "hobby" aspect of it. It is also my opinion that the more positive results published, the better I feel about vaping, and the easier it is to feel advising smokers of vaping as an alternative than just being able to offer "Hey, this stuff is really cool. Hopefully it won't kill us in some other way".
Yup, that sentiment is as old as human civilization. Aristotle and Plato felt the same about the kids in their era.I think our parents and grand-parents felt exactly the same way when we were of college age.
I think our parents and grand-parents felt exactly the same way when we were of college age.
After 72 years of experiencing and observing the actions of my contemporaries, I have concluded that if my parents and grand-parents felt as DC2 stated (and I am sure that they did) then they were absolutely correct. And, now, we have passed our idiocy on to our progeny who continue on the path we started in the late sixties.
Since TwoBears is on a technology vacation, let me just state:
"Kids these days, Aarrrgh! Stay off my lawn!"
"Kids these days, Aarrrgh! Stay off my lawn!"
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