Remember Desert Island Discs? Maybe that didn't run this side of the Atlantic.
If you were going to marooned on a desert island and you could only take one vaping setup with you, what would it be?
Deeming Regulations have been released!!!!
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Remember Desert Island Discs? Maybe that didn't run this side of the Atlantic.
If you were going to marooned on a desert island and you could only take one vaping setup with you, what would it be?
Wrong, wrong, wrong and illogical. We might as well have appointed Bloomberg.
G'nite and good luck.
They are Not my words Mac. Just the words of the One of the Key Players who is shaping the e-Cigarette Market.
Just thought I would Interject what was going on in the Real World into this "What is a Right?" Philosophical Debate.
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I guarantee they will need bigger weapons than mine if they come to my house and try to infringe upon my right to vape as I choose in my own home!
I would Hope that things wouldn't get to that Dystopian, Mad Max state, where we would have to Test your Premise. But I remember someone Told Me very earlier on that the Best Way to Effect Change is to Sit Back and to Do Nothing.
It took me awhile to get what they were say'n.
Because I was looking at it from the Perspective of the Change that would come would be a Change that I Wanted.
I know Z. Just teeing off. Late at night and the frustration is palpable.
Best of luck.
A rather true (if depressing statement). Sigh. I don't do well with change at all, period. It's something of a problem given things are changing all the time and etc.
Kind of the reason why vapewise, I'd love everything laid out ahead of time, although of course the FDA isn't going to do that. Vague statements/promises, followed by unpalatable change but small enough to not outrage everyone.
We need a press release stating that all flavors will be banned by the FDA in 4 months. All vape shops will be closed, and the government will decide what gas stations are allowed to carry what.
I'm not saying it needs to be a truthful press release, but ideally it would be. We just need someone to "leak" the FDA's true plans.
Because that is the kind of statement that would get focused attention from the vaping community and vendors (the ones that didn't cave immediately and close down the house.
It can be hard to become "exited" about issues of flavors that are nebulous and etc. I know I stocked up a lot on flavors. If I can afford to do that, I can afford to donate to CASA and etc. Which I may well do today.
I don't think that we'd be able VapNR up and going fast enough, honestly. So, I will do what little more I can, but I feel pretty grim about it, all of it. The "Finger in the ...." story does spring to mind, but we are fighting an industrialized, hydra-headed monster (the government) and it has its own priorities, and the priorities do NOT align with most vaper's wishes.
I still am going to try, even as I grow ever less optimistic. I actually thought the FDA was "not so bad," initially. That's what he wanted me to think, and everyone else. It worked. At first.
Anna
Kind of the reason why vapewise, I'd love everything laid out ahead of time, although of course the FDA isn't going to do that. Vague statements/promises, followed by unpalatable change but small enough to not outrage everyone.
We need a press release stating that all flavors will be banned by the FDA in 4 months. All vape shops will be closed, and the government will decide what gas stations are allowed to carry what.
I'm not saying it needs to be a truthful press release, but ideally it would be. We just need someone to "leak" the FDA's true plans.
Because that is the kind of statement that would get focused attention from the vaping community and vendors (the ones that didn't cave immediately and close down the house.
It can be hard to become "exited" about issues of flavors that are nebulous and etc. I know I stocked up a lot on flavors. If I can afford to do that, I can afford to donate to CASA and etc. Which I may well do today.
I don't think that we'd be able VapNR up and going fast enough, honestly. So, I will do what little more I can, but I feel pretty grim about it, all of it. The "Finger in the ...." story does spring to mind, but we are fighting an industrialized, hydra-headed monster (the government) and it has its own priorities, and the priorities do NOT align with most vaper's wishes.
I still am going to try, even as I grow ever less optimistic. I actually thought the FDA was "not so bad," initially. That's what he wanted me to think, and everyone else. It worked. At first.
Anna
The ultimate proof that the change (we want) can happen is that we were able to achieve it in ourselves.
How do we make it happen with others?
Be a testament to that truth.
It's not that the mission has been wrong. But we each as individuals perhaps should endeavor to answer whether we ever truly engaged it.
Good luck.
How do we make it happen with others?
Be a testament to that truth.
It's not that the mission has been wrong. But we each as individuals perhaps should endeavor to answer whether we ever truly engaged it.
Good luck.
That sounds like a cop out. First you can’t say only republicans and then throw in plus two democrats. I will be the first to admit that the dems are the ones attacking vaping, but not signing a letter attacking vaping is a long way from supporting it. Also, the administration controls the agencies, and if we’re to have any hope, we need the fda and cdc to change their tunes.
What I said was true - all support came from Republicans and 2 Democrats. Do you disagree? If not where's the 'cop out'??
There's a difference between all Republicans support vaping vs. all support has come from Republicans + 2 dems. I mentioned the type of Republicans who don't support. I of course agree with the last sentence and frankly there has been mixed signals there.
I was unclear. I meant the cop out is from them. Not being actively against vaping(not signing letters) is nowhere near being pro vaping.
Your original phrasing that “all support” has come from Republicans, plus two democrats just struck me as off. Since there were two democrats, it wasn’t all Republicans.
I wish we had more support all around. I think if the fda and cdc started being truthful, we might even get more support from democrats. The hard science part is already done, our friends across the pond have tons of data. We just need to move people away from the puritanical view that abstinence is the only answer. It’s interesting what each side gets hung up on.
I think the problem is that this analysis is looking at a small slice of what's really going on.
There are a handful of republicans who are standing up for vaping on freedom of choice grounds, though I'm doubtful they feel strongly enough about it to stand up to the party bosses. Maybe a small number from both parties who stand up for vaping because they understand it's a healthier alternative to smoking. And some democrats who oppose it for puritanical control freak reasons. Most of them don't know enough to care or don't see it as important enough to warrant their attention.
Other factors are much more significant.
Indiana is a deep red State and it produced some of the worst anti-vaping laws, although they had to withdraw some of them. The 2 main factors seem to have been straight business related corruption, and concern about revenue streams. Both were mostly led by republicans with support from a few democrats, not for political reasons, just that there aren't that many democrats. And virtually no opposition from either party.
At the State level republicans are by no means less active against vaping than democrats. Neither ideology nor science seems to play much of a role.
Same at the Fed level.
What makes it worse on the Fed side is that they don't have to take action to crush vaping or hand it over to BT and BP. They just have to sit back and let the agencies do the dirty work.
To be honest I'm a little more optimistic about the agencies helping us out than the politicians. There does seem to be a little acknowledgement of science creeping into their thinking.
That's my take anyway.
We really do need the agencies to come around, otherwise we’re all crazy people railing against the FDA and CDC.
In the Short Term, there is only about One Thing that would do that in our system of government.
And I Don't think vapers would like it much.
What system? Regret to say I would argue that the courts, etc. altogether pretend constitutional confines do not exist anymore.
No system can function without structural order. Less would be right then, it's pointless to argue. A parallel unilateral gov is no gov or law at all but the anarchy of the bureaucratic elite.
Good luck.
I may be seriously over-optimistic, but I believe Scott Gottlieb wants to save vaping and the vaping industry(though maybe not in exactly the form we're used to). Since he took over at the FDA, they've delayed the PMTA deadline for 4 years and there's been little to no enforcement of the PMTA requirement for new products introduced after 8/1/2016.
I try to keep in mind that he's only one person, and he has to work within the environment that he inherited.
Just my
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